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  1. #301
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And there it is. Even in a thread about sexism regarding another writer, Snyder still lives rent free in people's heads.
    I didn't forget about him. In fact i have mentioned DCEU WW plenty of times. But since right now the conversation was more focused on comics. I didn't mention DCEU.

  2. #302
    Incredible Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    I didn't forget about him. In fact i have mentioned DCEU WW plenty of times. But since right now the conversation was more focused on comics. I didn't mention DCEU.
    And you shouldn't forget about him. Lots of self-proclaimed SnyderStans across the net have been quite vocal about their "WW is aight as long as she does NOT beat/outclass/outranks Superman or any of the bioys" thoughts. And JL/ZSJL didn't help matters with that horrible scene many of us have tried to forget.

  3. #303
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Due to skill. She ever outright overpowered him.
    How do you block the powerful punch of an enemy much stronger than you?

    How do I block a punch from John Cena?

    Faora wasn't stronger than him, but she also wasn't weaker. And she was beating an equally strong opponent thanks to her skill

  4. #304
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    How do you block the powerful punch of an enemy much stronger than you?

    How do I block a punch from John Cena?

    Faora wasn't stronger than him, but she also wasn't weaker. And she was beating an equally strong opponent thanks to her skill
    She doesn't have to be as strong as him to do it.SM wasn't even at full power in that movie. And again he beat zod. He still had to reach the level of power that he reached in JL. Historically, not all kryptonians are on the same level. And nothing suggests this isn't the case in the DCEU. So far, SM has the feats to claim the strongest kryptonian title, Zod and Faora don't.

  5. #305
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    And you shouldn't forget about him. Lots of self-proclaimed SnyderStans across the net have been quite vocal about their "WW is aight as long as she does NOT beat/outclass/outranks Superman or any of the bioys" thoughts. And JL/ZSJL didn't help matters with that horrible scene many of us have tried to forget.
    Yeah. I don't know how things will turn out now without snyder in the DCEU. But i am not holding my breath. Patty Jenkins hasn't done anything to restore WW's status as a powerhouse.

  6. #306
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    She doesn't have to be as strong as him to do it.SM wasn't even at full power in that movie. And again he beat zod. He still had to reach the level of power that he reached in JL. Historically, not all kryptonians are on the same level. And nothing suggests this isn't the case in the DCEU. So far, SM has the feats to claim the strongest kryptonian title, Zod and Faora don't.
    What makes you say he wasn't at full power?

    He had been on earth for 33 years, absorved all that sunlight. Isn't his strength based on how much sunlight he absorved? What difference does 4 years make?

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    How do you block the powerful punch of an enemy much stronger than you?

    How do I block a punch from John Cena?
    Simple, you use proper technique. When blocking a blow you are taught to deflect it rather than stopping it dead.

    I am aware that weight classes exist for a reason, but it is entirely possible to block a blow from a more physically powerful foe (especially if they aren't as well-trained as you) because deflecting a hit requires much less force than just stopping it.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    What makes you say he wasn't at full power?

    He had been on earth for 33 years, absorved all that sunlight. Isn't his strength based on how much sunlight he absorved? What difference does 4 years make?
    Yeah, Supes was def at full power. Anyone who says otherwise either didn't see the movie or is just flat out lying.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  9. #309
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Yeah, Supes was def at full power. Anyone who says otherwise either didn't see the movie or is just flat out lying.
    This. The entire point of killing Zod was that Clark was using everything he had and it wasn't enough, hence needing to resort to lethal force. Moreover, if your ideas of "full power" are Silver Age, you're correct, but he's also just never going to be that strong in film.

    He was as strong at the end of Man of Steel as he was ever going to be in the DCEU, ergo it's the full extant of his strength. The entire point of that scene is "what does the unstoppable force do to stop the immovable object when it refuses to surrender," which was "break the object."
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  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by El_Gato View Post
    I never got the Superman/Wonder Woman comparisons either. I mean itís not like Diana is even the strongest or most powerful female character in DC (Powergirl and Supergirl are stronger/ just as strong and Raven/Zatanna/Circe are definitely more powerful)
    So your excuse for DC throwing Wonder Woman under the bus for the sake of Superman, which is at least historically definitively related to sexism, is to tell lies about the female DC characters? Did you read Wonder Woman's last fight with an even amped Supergirl?

    Circe is the only character you named with even a resemblance of a case, and she is not a superhero. And Superman is definitively not the most powerful male being in DC either, in fact Wonder Woman has even a better case for female superheroes than Superman for male superheroes, because the most powerful Doctor Fate's are typically male and even the Spectre sometimes counts as a superhero.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Yeah, Supes was def at full power. Anyone who says otherwise either didn't see the movie or is just flat out lying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    This. The entire point of killing Zod was that Clark was using everything he had and it wasn't enough, hence needing to resort to lethal force. Moreover, if your ideas of "full power" are Silver Age, you're correct, but he's also just never going to be that strong in film.

    He was as strong at the end of Man of Steel as he was ever going to be in the DCEU, ergo it's the full extant of his strength. The entire point of that scene is "what does the unstoppable force do to stop the immovable object when it refuses to surrender," which was "break the object."
    Justice League Superman was shown as way faster than Man of Steel Superman in his fight with Flash, and had also finally freeze breath, so are we supposed to say Justice League Superman is amped and surpassed his full power?

  12. #312
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Justice League Superman was shown as way faster than Man of Steel Superman in his fight with Flash, and had also finally freeze breath, so are we supposed to say Justice League Superman is amped and surpassed his full power?
    He was able to see Flash, but it doesn't mean his attack was faster than usual.

    And that doesn't answer the question of "if you think Superman became stronger 4 years later, how do you explain it"

  13. #313
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    Justice League Superman was shown as way faster than Man of Steel Superman in his fight with Flash, and had also finally freeze breath, so are we supposed to say Justice League Superman is amped and surpassed his full power?
    He didn't look as fast because he was dealing with people going as fast as him. We didn't have the Flash, DC's high water mark for speed, setting a bar for Clark to compare favorably to.

    Moreover, they forgot it as a power. This happens a lot with Clark. It's not like he got depowered just because they forgot about it. His freeze breath gets so forgotten pretty often.

    He's fighting Kryptonians in MoS so he struggles since they're level to him. JL shows Kryptonians as stronger than anything else, so he appears stronger there but there's nothing to say he wouldn't have pantsed anyone back in MoS if they showed up.

    All of that is to say that what happened to Diana has nothing to do with Clark being supercharged, stronger than usual or anything. It was not supported by the plot. It's just there to squarely put Diana "in her place" and therefore some ol' bullshit.

    I'm fine if Clark can beat Diana in an arm wrestling contest because raw physical strength is sometimes all he's allowed to bring to the table... but also because Diana should never be dumb enough to reduce herself to a raw statistic like who can bench more. She's got the wisdom of Athena and incredible martial skill. Her trying to outheadbutt Clark like some fratboy was a bigger disservice to her than getting laid out afterwards.

    She's not an idiot. Even if he's stronger, she's seen him fight and knows what he can do. She'd absolutely use the lasso and grappling to subdue him, or at least try.

    But instead the wisdom of Athena chose to headbutt a raging bull when she didn't have to... because I guess that's empowering?

    She can lose the fight and still come across well, but both JL movies ain't it.
    Last edited by Robanker; 05-22-2022 at 11:16 PM.
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  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    He didn't look as fast because he was dealing with people going as fast as him. We didn't have the Flash, DC's high water mark for speed, setting a bar for Clark to compare favorably to.

    Moreover, they forgot it as a power. This happens a lot with Clark. It's not like he got depowered just because they forgot about it. His freeze breath gets so forgotten pretty often.

    He's fighting Kryptonians in MoS so he struggles since they're level to him. JL shows Kryptonians as stronger than anything else, so he appears stronger there but there's nothing to say he wouldn't have pantsed anyone back in MoS if they showed up.

    All of that is to say that what happened to Diana has nothing to do with Clark being supercharged, stronger than usual or anything. It was not supported by the plot. It's just there to squarely put Diana "in her place" and therefore some ol' bullshit.

    I'm fine if Clark can beat Diana in an arm wrestling contest because raw physical strength is sometimes all he's allowed to bring to the table... but also because Diana should never be dumb enough to reduce herself to a raw statistic like who can bench more. She's got the wisdom of Athena and incredible martial skill. Her trying to outheadbutt Clark like some fratboy was a bigger disservice to her than getting laid out afterwards.

    She's not an idiot. Even if he's stronger, she's seen him fight and knows what he can do. She'd absolutely use the lasso and grappling to subdue him, or at least try.

    But instead the wisdom of Athena chose to headbutt a raging bull when she didn't have to... because I guess that's empowering?

    She can lose the fight and still come across well, but both JL movies ain't it.
    She'd seen Clark fight a grand total of once before this and in that instance he was the sole casualty against Doomsday. Even ignoring that, she does far better in the Snyder version than in the Whedon, although neither is perfect. I'd call the fight against Superman far more humiliating for Flash and Batman.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    He was able to see Flash, but it doesn't mean his attack was faster than usual.

    And that doesn't answer the question of "if you think Superman became stronger 4 years later, how do you explain it"
    Superman was able to fight Flash as Wonder Woman was like frozen in time, Wonder Woman who can easily deflect several bullets of automatic guns while moving humans who are like frozen out of the way and since 1984 can even with weakened powers precisely catch bullets that have long passed her with her lasso, and if we want to get truly cute even reacts to lightning in the sky if not weakened. That is way faster than he ever was in his fights with Faora, Zod, or even Doomsday.

    Why do i need to explain Snyder's trash writing, or even the general inconsistencies in the DCEU, how do you explain that Wonder Woman forgot with more experience how to passively deflect objects thrown at her, make things invisible, and even how to fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    He didn't look as fast because he was dealing with people going as fast as him. We didn't have the Flash, DC's high water mark for speed, setting a bar for Clark to compare favorably to.

    Moreover, they forgot it as a power. This happens a lot with Clark. It's not like he got depowered just because they forgot about it. His freeze breath gets so forgotten pretty often.
    None of the other Kryptonian's ever fought nearly fast enough to make Wonder Woman look like frozen in time, and nobody who watched Superman vs Batman ever had the idea that even Superman himself could do that, because it was clearly not the case before Justice League.

    So am i supposed to assume that they maybe just forgot that Wonder Woman is not just a pathetic joke, or even with others of the Justice League too, because it truly just looked like they were depowered?

    He's fighting Kryptonians in MoS so he struggles since they're level to him. JL shows Kryptonians as stronger than anything else, so he appears stronger there but there's nothing to say he wouldn't have pantsed anyone back in MoS if they showed up.

    All of that is to say that what happened to Diana has nothing to do with Clark being supercharged, stronger than usual or anything. It was not supported by the plot. It's just there to squarely put Diana "in her place" and therefore some ol' bullshit.
    Justice League never showed Kryptonians like that, it just shows Superman like that, and in the comics are Kryptonian's not even nearly all on par with Superman or even with each other, and there is no evidence for that being any different in the DCEU. And there is plenty to say that Superman back in Man of Steel would have had no shot at keeping up with Flash, because if he could have, Faora and Zod should have been not even nearly any challenges.

    I know that Snyder disrespected Wonder Woman with this trash writing in Justice League, but it was just Superman, not basically an entire race, we don't need to make up bullshit that Snyder has not even done, it is bad enough already.

    I'm fine if Clark can beat Diana in an arm wrestling contest because raw physical strength is sometimes all he's allowed to bring to the table... but also because Diana should never be dumb enough to reduce herself to a raw statistic like who can bench more. She's got the wisdom of Athena and incredible martial skill.
    The problem with Superman and Wonder Woman in Justice League is not nearly just physical strength, because she is a pathetic weakling in general there, and to be honest i am not even fine with Superman winning an arm wrestling contest anymore if there is not more than the claim that she has more skill, after decades of skill almost never meaning anything except for Batman have i lost all trust in that concept.

    Her trying to outheadbutt Clark like some fratboy was a bigger disservice to her than getting laid out afterwards.
    She's not an idiot. Even if he's stronger, she's seen him fight and knows what he can do. She'd absolutely use the lasso and grappling to subdue him, or at least try.
    But instead the wisdom of Athena chose to headbutt a raging bull when she didn't have to... because I guess that's empowering?

    She can lose the fight and still come across well, but both JL movies ain't it.
    I wish that would be the biggest problem, but Wonder Woman in Snyder's DCEU is not just an idiot, she is also a weakling, seemingly forgets her powers all the time, and is a blood-knight. Snyder's Justice League is almost as empowering as Jordan Peterson's work, and i don't think anyone except Snyder fanboys even believe it is empowering.

    I don't even remember any fight where Wonder Woman lost to Superman and came across well, it might be possible in theory, but DC or WB are clearly not capable of that, and there is typically not even any reason to write a story where Wonder Woman must lose to Superman to begin with, just like there was no point at all in Justice League.

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