possible signs of sexism, including weisman.

[John Venus]

-The idea of Jon being stronger than Kal because he has both human and kryptonian genetics will never add up for me. In previous stories, like in Bryne's 'Superman/Batman: Generations' Clark's off springs with humans were weaker because they only had half of his kryptonian genetics. I wonder if there is a RL basis in biology for that.

-Now, if a Kryptonian bred with an Amazon.... >_> .... <_< .... >_> or with a Daxamite or whatever Maxima's race is supposed then I can imagine that child being ridiculously powerful.

-Everybody likes Jon but they don't necessarily like the role DC is trying to shove Jon into. Everything they're doing with Jon would make more sense with Kon.

-Coming back to WW I think the main problem with Superman and Wonder Woman is that writers still think along the lines of myths where Superman is 'Hercules' and WW is 'Hippolyta' and think Diana needs to be 'conquered' by the all powerful male hero which imo, does a disservice to both characters.

[Gaius]

As weird as this sounds, I was replaying the first Injustice game the other day and the writing for WW there is slightly more respectful there, all things considered. In the game she's basically a generic baddie, no more evil than the rest of her comrades, Superman is portrayed as the clear Big Bad there and in fact, the implication is that he influenced Wonder Woman change of behaviour, not the other way around (there's a part where Diana tells her good universe counterpart "Superman showed me the truth"). Even her relationship with Supes is portrayed as soemthing that happened relatively recently (i.e. 5 years after Lois' death, not 5 minutes) and something she has doubts about (out of respect for both Superman and Lois).

Don't get me wrong, she's still an evil Warrior Woman version, but the hyper-bloodthirsty Lady Macbeth-esque closeted fascist that couldn't wait to conquer the world and get into Superman's pants while his wife memory was still fresh? That's all Taylor's invention.

Yeah, the first game leave you to fill in the blanks about how the rest of the League became like they did like the DCAU JL episode did with "A Better World".

Not saying NRS doesn't deserve flak but Taylor does try to shift blame for his own creative decisions when it comes to Injustice.

[Alpha]

-Coming back to WW I think the main problem with Superman and Wonder Woman is that writers still think along the lines of myths where Superman is 'Hercules' and WW is 'Hippolyta' and think Diana needs to be 'conquered' by the all powerful male hero which imo, does a disservice to both characters.

Wait what? Can someone explain that theory?

[BiteTheBullet]

-The idea of Jon being stronger than Kal because he has both human and kryptonian genetics will never add up for me. In previous stories, like in Bryne's 'Superman/Batman: Generations' Clark's off springs with humans were weaker because they only had half of his kryptonian genetics. I wonder if there is a RL basis in biology for that.

-Now, if a Kryptonian bred with an Amazon.... >_> .... <_< .... >_> or with a Daxamite or whatever Maxima's race is supposed then I can imagine that child being ridiculously powerful.

-Everybody likes Jon but they don't necessarily like the role DC is trying to shove Jon into. Everything they're doing with Jon would make more sense with Kon.

-Coming back to WW I think the main problem with Superman and Wonder Woman is that writers still think along the lines of myths where Superman is 'Hercules' and WW is 'Hippolyta' and think Diana needs to be 'conquered' by the all powerful male hero which imo, does a disservice to both characters.

Never made sense to me either, and I have posted much the same on other threads.

[Agent Z]

Wait what? Can someone explain that theory?

Simple. In the eyes of many writers, editors, etc, no matter how strong or powerful a woman is, she can never be allowed to be equal or superior to a man. This applies to Superman and Wonder Woman where Diana will often, if not always be portrayed as Superman's physical inferior, either by having him defeat her or have him easily defeat an opponent she couldn't even scratch.

This applies to the myths as well. Whenever the Amazons showed up, it was often to be bested by a male hero.

[WonderLight789]

Simple. In the eyes of many writers, editors, etc, no matter how strong or powerful a woman is, she can never be allowed to be equal or superior to a man. This applies to Superman and Wonder Woman where Diana will often, if not always be portrayed as Superman's physical inferior, either by having him defeat her or have him easily defeat an opponent she couldn't even scratch.

This applies to the myths as well. Whenever the Amazons showed up, it was often to be bested by a male hero.

And just like that you described a very sexist situation. A situation that still happens often in comics. The biggest irony of all this. Is how DC loves to milk WW's position as a feminist girl power icon. When they have allowed her to be a perfect victim of sexism countless times until these days.

[Gaius]

Simple. In the eyes of many writers, editors, etc, no matter how strong or powerful a woman is, she can never be allowed to be equal or superior to a man. This applies to Superman and Wonder Woman where Diana will often, if not always be portrayed as Superman's physical inferior, either by having him defeat her or have him easily defeat an opponent she couldn't even scratch.

This applies to the myths as well. Whenever the Amazons showed up, it was often to be bested by a male hero.

Or patronizing stuff like "sure he's stronger but she's more skilled"*

*Rarely if ever actually backed up in the same way it conveniently does for Batman.

[Alpha]

Being bested isn't the same thing as being conquered. That's why I was very confused by that comparison of saying writers want Superman to conquer Diana the same way Hercules conquered Hippolyta. That's a much more assaulting take than people usually give here.

Do people actually use Superman as the measure of power equality between the genders?

So if Superman was shown as consistently being matched in strength by Faora, would it be okay for Wonder Woman to be weaker than the two of them?

I'm not saying Diana has to be weaker than Superman, but DC has always said that Superman is the strongest Superhero on earth so there are no other male heroes that compare to him. Maybe Shazam at times, but he never has the same feats as Superman.

[BiteTheBullet]

Or patronizing stuff like "sure he's stronger but she's more skilled"*

*Rarely if ever actually backed up in the same way it conveniently does for Batman.

Or she is more skilled, but I can still strangle her with her own lasso!

[WonderLight789]

Or patronizing stuff like "sure he's stronger but she's more skilled"*

*Rarely if ever actually backed up in the same way it conveniently does for Batman.

That is another obvious one. For the people that still defend the idea that she can be weaker and still be beat him or give him a hell of a fight thanks to her skills. When have you actually seen this ever happening? When have her so called skilles of the greatest warrior in DC, ever made a different and saved her from getting stomped against stronger foes? Against Superman? No, Doomsday? No, Darkseid? No, Mongul? No. Hell they don't even matter when fighting aquaman, who these days has better strength feats and is a legit threat to her physically, no matter how much some people want to deny it. Comics don't lie. WW has become a never ending circle of lipservice, she allegedly is a big deal, super powerful, amazing skills and brain. But we hardly ever see any of that on panel.

[WonderLight789]

Being bested isn't the same thing as being conquered. That's why I was very confused by that comparison of saying writers want Superman to conquer Diana the same way Hercules conquered Hippolyta. That's a much more assaulting take than people usually give here.

Do people actually use Superman as the measure of power equality between the genders?

So if Superman was shown as consistently being matched in strength by Faora, would it be okay for Wonder Woman to be weaker than the two of them?

I'm not saying Diana has to be weaker than Superman, but DC has always said that Superman is the strongest Superhero on earth so there are no other male heroes that compare to him. Maybe Shazam at times, but he never has the same feats as Superman.

Because of sexism. WW was created to be SM equal. She historically was stronger than Hercules and faster than Mercury. She is powered up by 7 Gods and maybe still hecate. So why should shazam be above her? Based on what other than gender aka sexism? taylor had the famne version of shazam beat her easily. Even though shazam family shares the same power source of Gods just like WW. Why? Because WW can't be allowed to be equal let alone superior that a male powerhouse, or in this case the female version of an existing male powerhouse. The sexism is there with these writers. Maybe not on purpose, maybe subconsciously. But it's there.

[Alpha]

Because of sexism. WW was created to be SM equal. She historically was stronger than Hercules and faster than Mercury. She is powered up by 7 Gods and maybe still hecate. So why should shazam be above her? Based on what other than gender aka sexism? taylor had the famne version of shazam beat her easily. Even though shazam family shares the same power source of Gods just like WW. Why? Because WW can't be allowed to be equal let alone superior that a male powerhouse, or in this case the female version of an existing male powerhouse. The sexism is there with these writers. Maybe not on purpose, maybe subconsciously. But it's there.

If Faora was consistently shown to be as strong as Superman, would that be proof of power equality between the genders?

[BiteTheBullet]

Being bested isn't the same thing as being conquered. That's why I was very confused by that comparison of saying writers want Superman to conquer Diana the same way Hercules conquered Hippolyta. That's a much more assaulting take than people usually give here.

Do people actually use Superman as the measure of power equality between the genders?

So if Superman was shown as consistently being matched in strength by Faora, would it be okay for Wonder Woman to be weaker than the two of them?

I'm not saying Diana has to be weaker than Superman, but DC has always said that Superman is the strongest Superhero on earth so there are no other male heroes that compare to him. Maybe Shazam at times, but he never has the same feats as Superman.

Shazam never had 3-4 monthly issues solely devoted to him as well as countless limited series as well as being a permanent member of the Justice League. Of course he is going to have vastly more feats than Shazam or pretty much any other superhero in the DC universe!

[WonderLight789]

If Faora was consistently shown to be as strong as Superman, would that be proof of power equality between the genders?

My respond to that would be. Why can't both be his equals? Is it because faora can be presented as a female version of him, so the pill is easier to swallow for some fragil egos? WW came first and was meant to be SM's equal. We have many statements from DC comics saying that she is, so why it is so difficult to show it directly? Or to not treat her like fodder next to him? Sexism is still going strong. That is the reason.

[phonogram12]

My respond to that would be. Why can't both be his equals? Is it because faora can be presented as a female version of him, so the pill is easier to swallow for some fragil egos? WW came first and was meant to be SM's equal. We have many statements from DC comics saying that she is, so why it is so difficult to show it directly? Or to not treat her like fodder next to him? Sexism is still going strong. That is the reason.

If Faora is as strong as Superman, that pretty much blows your theory out of the water. All that means in re to WW is that they don't think much of the WW mythos. Which would admittedly suck, but has nothing to do with sexism if another woman is shown to be as strong as he is.