possible signs of sexism, including weisman.

[BiteTheBullet]

Marston - Used WW to fulfill his horny fantasies, had WW lose to street-leveler Cheetah. Very disrespectful to Marston's creation.

Perez - Had WW get taken out by a poison dart. Had Barbara Minerva get scared off by a shotgun, Perez clearly knows nothing about Cheetah

Rucka - Batman didn't turn into jelly when WW punched him in Hiketeia, clearly trying to depower her.

You know, he made this post to be serious about the topic at hand.

If you don't like conversations about this in a thread meant specifically for that, why bother posting?

And yes, as soon as I saw your post, your sarcasm was so thick that it couldn't cut a kryptonian on a bad day with a knife!

[Primal Slayer]

You know, he made this post to be serious about the topic at hand.

If you don't like conversations about this in a thread meant specifically for that, why bother posting?

And yes, as soon as I saw your post, your sarcasm was so thick that it couldn't cut a kryptonian on a bad day with a knife!

Using examples of Gregs work w/WW/Cheetah arent cases of sexism.
Making WW not invulnerable or as strong as Superman doesn't constitute instant sexism.

Having Cheetah get defeated by another female doesn't constitute sexism. This is just another glorified "powers" complaint.

[SiegePerilous02]

Marston still created interesting concepts and was definitely behind the idea of creating a powerful woman. That would speak her mind and fight for what she believes in. His vision was giving a what if kind of approach. He put into question plenty of things about society and how it viwed women. Was his run perfect? No, but he had interesting ideas, and and open mind enough to try to explore things from a woman's point of view. To give a woman the power that was usually only given to men. And i highly doubt he was sexist. When i look at how the writers i just listed above treated her(among many others that i'm missing). Marston wasn't perfect with the way he executed some of his ideas. But he was far from treating Diana like arm candy, a weaklink that gets put in her place by male powerhouses. Or having men lecturing her about compassion and trash like that.

He believed women were superior to men, which is not true feminism and is very much sexist against both genders, despite the good intentions. Plus all the gender essentialism.

Human beings are complicated. He can send multiple messages in his work, both ones that are worth examining and endure and others that are best left by the wayside.

Not to mention that we are looking at this from a perspective of today's society and cultural norms as opposed to the 1940's. If invented today, Marston's depiction of WW would never get printed but, the character and underlying concept is as relevant today as it was then otherwise, Wonder Woman wouldn't have lasted 80 years or, become a feminist icon.

Marston walked so the subsequent writers who took over his creation could run, true. She wouldn't endure as a feminist icon if other talented creators could extrapolate some of his best ideas and expand on them (Perez, Rucka, Simone and now DeConnick) while leaving others behind.

You know, he made this post to be serious about the topic at hand.

Isn't this topic covered in about a billion other threads he created?

The topic is serious, but how serious can a bunch of spammed threads be?

Making WW not invulnerable or as strong as Superman doesn't constitute instant sexism.

Having Cheetah get defeated by another female doesn't constitute sexism. This is just another glorified "powers" complaint.

Also this

[BiteTheBullet]

And this is his Circe for good measure

These images, ooof!

Project1.jpg

[WonderLight789]

Not to mention that we are looking at this from a perspective of today's society and cultural norms as opposed to the 1940's. If invented today, Marston's depiction of WW would never get printed but, the character and underlying concept is as relevant today as it was then otherwise, Wonder Woman wouldn't have lasted 80 years or, become a feminist icon.

Exactly. Not to mention that Marston WW still puts a lot of the modern material WW to shame. Even for the standards of today's society. His WW still has values, codes and powerful messages of self empowerment that you don't find in the way that weisman, timm, wagner, joeph, snyder, taylor etc view and portray the character. It tells you a lot, when the material from the 40s, with flaws and all. Still has more progressive messages and diversity than a lot of modern stories. What are the excuse for these writers to justify their crummy approach to WW in so many stories from comics to TV and movies from the last 30 years. What is their excuse? Marston as a man writing in the 40s did more to portray a powerful, strong willed, sassy yet kind and brave woman than what these writers have done for WW.

[BiteTheBullet]

Using examples of Gregs work w/WW/Cheetah arent cases of sexism.
Making WW not invulnerable or as strong as Superman doesn't constitute instant sexism.

Having Cheetah get defeated by another female doesn't constitute sexism. This is just another glorified "powers" complaint.

It is a posters opinion of what he sees. That you think it is different doesn't mean he is incorrect.

[Primal Slayer]

It is a posters opinion of what he sees. That you think it is different doesn't mean he is incorrect.

Some things are black and white. Catwoman defeating Cheetah is very black and white. Its not sexism no way you look at it.

[WonderLight789]

Using examples of Gregs work w/WW/Cheetah arent cases of sexism.
Making WW not invulnerable or as strong as Superman doesn't constitute instant sexism.

Having Cheetah get defeated by another female doesn't constitute sexism. This is just another glorified "powers" complaint.

Sur jan. Keep telling yourself that. You won't see greg weisman treating top batman or superman villains as the punching bag of a woman in a cat suit. He wanted a cat fight. That was his whole thinking process about using Cheeah and how she lost to catwoman. The more sexualized and popukar(for obvious reasons) cat character. But sure, sexism wasn't a factor.

Making WW an ant next to superman is sexism. And that is how most writers portray her. An ant next to superman.

And as you can see. I also gave other examples beyond power level.

You refuse to see the evidence, it is up to you. sexism is real.

[SiegePerilous02]

Catwoman defeating Cheetah is inherently stupid as all hell. It's just not stupid for sexist reasons.

[WonderLight789]

Some things are black and white. Catwoman defeating Cheetah is very black and white. Its not sexism no way you look at it.

I already explained in my post above why it is sexist. And that is including other things he has said about WW and her lore. Including how he sees a Demi Goddess as inferior to a verey weak clone of superman. But you can keep telling yourself that sexism isn't a factor if you want. to me it is very obvious a factor.

[Gaius]

You know, he made this post to be serious about the topic at hand.

If you don't like conversations about this in a thread meant specifically for that, why bother posting?

And yes, as soon as I saw your post, your sarcasm was so thick that it couldn't cut a kryptonian on a bad day with a knife!

Well, let's see. Given the title including a specific person, this spilling out from the animation thread, and most of the complaints are stuff they've already posted about in other threads. Hard to see as a thread seriously examining the history of sexism in DC's treatment when it comes to female characters and not just another thread to complain about power levels/jobbing.

Because I guess the animation thread, controversial opinions thread, the power level complaints thread, the Cloonan/Conrad run thread, the Cheetah jobbing thread, and the various other threads Mystical41 made just weren't enough room for this discussion.

[BiteTheBullet]

Some things are black and white. Catwoman defeating Cheetah is very black and white. Its not sexism no way you look at it.

If you think this is a typical power thread, which you don't seem to like, why 'feed the troll' by even replying to the thread?

Just ignore and let others vent or say what they want. Otherwise this thread doesn't seem to be catered for you.

[WonderLight789]

Catwoman defeating Cheetah is inherently stupid as all hell. It's just not stupid for sexist reasons.

The more popular, sex driven type of cat theme character winning the fight against the more beast like female character in a battle that only existerd because the writer wanted a cat fight. I wouldn't be too sure to say sexism didn't play a part.

[BiteTheBullet]

Well, let's see. Given the title including a specific person, this spilling out from the animation thread, and most of the complaints are stuff they've already posted about in other threads. Hard to see as a thread seriously examining the history of sexism in DC's treatment when it comes to female characters and not just another thread to complain about power levels/jobbing.

Because I guess the animation thread, controversial opinions thread, the power level complaints thread, the Cloonan/Conrad run thread, the Cheetah jobbing thread, and the various other threads Mystical41 made just weren't enough room for this discussion.

Same thing I said with Primal Slayer, don't bother posting then. This thread is not apparently for you. I have seen others banned for sarcastic remarks, or even trollish remarks which is what your post was.

[Primal Slayer]

If you think this is a typical power thread, which you don't seem to like, why 'feed the troll' by even replying to the thread?

Just ignore and let others vent or say what they want. Otherwise this thread doesn't seem to be catered for you.

Do i tell people to stay in their lanes in other posts? When they constantly get taken over about 1 subject? No.

This isn't a venting thread, it's about a topic w/examples that are false towards said topic.