possible signs of sexism, including weisman.

[Alpha]

Superman was able to fight Flash as Wonder Woman was like frozen in time, Wonder Woman who can easily deflect several bullets of automatic guns while moving humans who are like frozen out of the way and since 1984 can even with weakened powers precisely catch bullets that have long passed her with her lasso, and if we want to get truly cute even reacts to lightning in the sky if not weakened. That is way faster than he ever was in his fights with Faora, Zod, or even Doomsday.

Oh yeah I forgot he actually did tussle with Flash, I thought he had just made him trip. You are correct and I was mistaken.

You are correct that he seemed way stronger in that movie than he did in Man of Steel, but there is no plot indication that he received a power up.

Did you forget the logic you guys used for Cheetah vs Wonder Woman? If Cheetah can take punches from a newbie Diana and throw her around, and grab her lasso, then you believe they are of comparable strength and durability, even years after, regardless of Cheetah not performing any other feats.

So if Faora can fight and outclass Superman before she even honed in her powers, then they have to be at the same level, just like Cheetah and Wonder Woman.

And my larger point is that if we are in a universe where Faora can fight Superman, then Wonder Woman being "weaker" isn't a sign of sexism

[Rightoya]

Oh yeah I forgot he actually did tussle with Flash, I thought he had just made him trip. You are correct and I was mistaken.

You are correct that he seemed way stronger in that movie than he did in Man of Steel, but there is no plot indication that he received a power up.

Yeah but i have never said that it made any sense, or was explained, it was just trash writing anyway.

Did you forget the logic you guys used for Cheetah vs Wonder Woman? If Cheetah can take punches from a newbie Diana and throw her around, and grab her lasso, then you believe they are of comparable strength and durability, even years after, regardless of Cheetah not performing any other feats.

So if Faora can fight and outclass Superman before she even honed in her powers, then they have to be at the same level, just like Cheetah and Wonder Woman.

I must have forget that, because i don't remember ever saying that, and i prefer Cheetah as a speedster who challenges Wonder Woman with higher speed and not comparable strength or durability anyway.

No, neither of these 2 claims is generally true, Cheetah was just in 1984 allegedly physically on par, but i don't even like that concept and it was not convincingly portrayed anyway.

And my larger point is that if we are in a universe where Faora can fight Superman, then Wonder Woman being "weaker" isn't a sign of sexism

If we would live in a universe where Faora is on par with Superman, we would have good reasons to assume that Wonder Woman is more powerful than Superman, because of Faora's feats in comparison and fights like this:



but we instead live in a universe where the historical development of Wonder Woman becoming definitively weaker than Superman, is basically a bright red sign of sexism in the sky, which DC often barely if at all tried to hide.

And am i the only 1 who thinks, it is just trash writing and disrespect for an individual character and not full blown sexism in general, is an extreme low bar anyway?

[WonderLight789]

Oh yeah I forgot he actually did tussle with Flash, I thought he had just made him trip. You are correct and I was mistaken.

You are correct that he seemed way stronger in that movie than he did in Man of Steel, but there is no plot indication that he received a power up.

Did you forget the logic you guys used for Cheetah vs Wonder Woman? If Cheetah can take punches from a newbie Diana and throw her around, and grab her lasso, then you believe they are of comparable strength and durability, even years after, regardless of Cheetah not performing any other feats.

So if Faora can fight and outclass Superman before she even honed in her powers, then they have to be at the same level, just like Cheetah and Wonder Woman.

And my larger point is that if we are in a universe where Faora can fight Superman, then Wonder Woman being "weaker" isn't a sign of sexism

Cheetah has never been on par with WW in strength. Outside of her debut against a very young and not so experienced Diana. The whole point was that is that if Cheetah is weaker physically than WW, but still strong enough to trade blows with WW in some capacity. Then human level characters shouldn't do anything to Cheetah.

JL SM clearly showed a level of speed and power that MOS SM didn't show. Same with Zod and Faora, so they can't be called equals ro him. Same way in the comics. WW has been able to handle Faora, just like she has Supergirl and Powergirl. See the pattern here with how WW is allowed to be ''badass'' against the female version of the alpha male, but not the alpha male himself. And it's worse because they will keep telling you how WW is on his level, only to be thrown under the bus in favor of SM later. Sexism

[phonogram12]

I'm fine if Clark can beat Diana in an arm wrestling contest because raw physical strength is sometimes all he's allowed to bring to the table... but also because Diana should never be dumb enough to reduce herself to a raw statistic like who can bench more. She's got the wisdom of Athena and incredible martial skill. Her trying to outheadbutt Clark like some fratboy was a bigger disservice to her than getting laid out afterwards.

She's not an idiot. Even if he's stronger, she's seen him fight and knows what he can do. She'd absolutely use the lasso and grappling to subdue him, or at least try.

But instead the wisdom of Athena chose to headbutt a raging bull when she didn't have to... because I guess that's empowering?

All of this. Absolutely all of it.

She can lose the fight and still come across well, but both JL movies ain't it.

Shocked! I am shocked! You mean Snyder failed to deliver?!?

[BiteTheBullet]

All of this. Absolutely all of it.



Shocked! I am shocked! You mean Snyder failed to deliver?!?

If Snyder meant to show that Superman was the most alpha of alpha males, then he was wildly successful!

[DochaDocha]

If Snyder meant to show that Superman was the most alpha of alpha males, then he was wildly successful!

Well, Snyder did have that Pearl Harbor-esque subplot planned where Lois would have Batman's kid and Superman and she would raise the kid in the wake of Batman's death. I think he'd lose some alpha points for that.

[BiteTheBullet]

Well, Snyder did have that Pearl Harbor-esque subplot planned where Lois would have Batman's kid and Superman and she would raise the kid in the wake of Batman's death. I think he'd lose some alpha points for that.

Yeah, but he still got to make the Justice League look like a bunch of rank amateurs!

[WonderLight789]

All of this. Absolutely all of it.



Shocked! I am shocked! You mean Snyder failed to deliver?!?

All of nothing would be more like it.

Nowadays WW has nothing. She has no great raw strength even though she is supposed to be comparable to SM. Her ''great intellect and skills'' are nowhere to be seen and they never play a factor in battle. Since she is constantly outclassed by SM and SM level characters and is seen totally helpless. So much for her ''intellect and skills'' can even the odds. They certainly can't based on actual proof. So nowadays she brings nothing to the table. No great strength, no great durability, no intellect or skills. The definition of a non event type of character, she is just there filling empty space.

[Primal Slayer]

WW can stop speeding bullets. Somehow I think that The Flash was moving beyond even her speed which he should be able to (I also think he should be faster than Superman) but I'll account for Clark being newly resurrected and built up powers is what gave him the temporary advantage.

[Alpha]

Well, Snyder did have that Pearl Harbor-esque subplot planned where Lois would have Batman's kid and Superman and she would raise the kid in the wake of Batman's death. I think he'd lose some alpha points for that.

Oh right, Snyder wanted to make Superman a literal cuckhold. I'll never understand that.

[Robanker]

Oh right, Snyder wanted to make Superman a literal cuckhold. I'll never understand that.

Much as I absolutely hate that plotline, it's not cuckolding if you're literally fucking dead when it happens.

Inappropriate to have sex with the man most responsible (if not the runner up, considering Lex) for your lover being dead? Absolutely. Cuckolding? How was anyone in that universe specifically to know he'd come back? Unless Jesus Christ walked in and asked them to RSVP to the Superesurrection, even Plas can't stretch that far.

[Alpha]

Nah I meant the old meaning of the word " a male who unwittingly invests parental effort in juveniles who are not genetically his offspring"

But yes I suppose it's not cuckholding since it's not unwittingly, Clark would know it's Bruce's child

[Confuzzled]

-The idea of Jon being stronger than Kal because he has both human and kryptonian genetics will never add up for me. In previous stories, like in Bryne's 'Superman/Batman: Generations' Clark's off springs with humans were weaker because they only had half of his kryptonian genetics. I wonder if there is a RL basis in biology for that.

No, that's nonsense biology as there's no gene for superpowers lol. Jon being more powerful than Kal can be explained as Jon being more invulnerable to heretofore unknown/undetectable limitations holding Kal back due to his exposure to a completely foreign planet, climate and people. I mean, still made-up with little to no basis in scientific fact but as legit as getting superpowers from the Sun.

Also, Jon being more powerful than Kal is thematically poignant in a meta sense as the concept of Superman was in no small part inspired by Jerry Siegel losing his father. So the son growing up to be less vulnerable than his dad is coming full circle again after Jor-El perishing and Kal-El thriving.

[BiteTheBullet]

No, that's nonsense biology as there's no gene for superpowers lol. Jon being more powerful than Kal can be explained as Jon being more invulnerable to heretofore unknown/undetectable limitations holding Kal back due to his exposure to a completely foreign planet, climate and people. I mean, still made-up with little to no basis in scientific fact but as legit as getting superpowers from the Sun.

Also, Jon being more powerful than Kal is thematically poignant in a meta sense as the concept of Superman was in no small part inspired by Jerry Siegel losing his father. So the son growing up to be less vulnerable than his dad is coming full circle again after Jor-El perishing and Kal-El thriving.

Whatever floats the writers boats.

But....Jon in no way should be more powerful to his dad with the exception of a vulnerability to kryptonite. That should be it, period.

[DochaDocha]

Whatever floats the writers boats.

But....Jon in no way should be more powerful to his dad with the exception of a vulnerability to kryptonite. That should be it, period.

Another reason I find Jon to be total horse doo doo.