possible signs of sexism, including weisman.

[BiteTheBullet]

So is making powers the #1 priority. Like I'm pretty sure Primal Slayer implied, you can't have a good story where the only priority is power levels. Otherwise, you get a bunch of '90s Image nonsense. All spectacle and no substance.

A writer can do both. It just sounds like certain posters can't be bothered with character (or anything else regarding WW, for that matter) if she can't move planets.

Putting words in my mouth? Never wanted a story about power levels, I want a story that is both good and respects the powers she has. When something that doesn't make sense to me, such as Aquaman destroying her in the water (he should win, but not that comfortably) and actually is winning against her on land and would have if not for Steve Trevor, then that is bad writing. So, tell me, how is that character of hers advanced in that scenario? Is she just weaker than normal just because? She can't fly just because? She doesn't use her supposed superior speed or amazon skills just because?

If you want just character, maybe we should get rid of the superheroics altogether. It's not like it would impact her that much with the exception of her or her villains jobbing so frequently. But hey, character, because you know, a comic book hero needs story, forget about her powers. Superman would be that much better if they just focused on the home life of Lois and Clark. Make him grounded and only as strong as a circus strongman. I mean, that was what his costume was fashioned after. But at least we can get to the root of it, because story at the expense of powers should trump all. So we don't have to worry about the writers disrespecting powers anymore because all we want to see is story. It's all so simple. Story, then character, and then maybe the powers that makes him or her stand out at the end of the list. That's the ticket!

Good strawman argument about moving planets. Haven't heard that one before nor have I ever wanted that for any character.

[Rightoya]

Using examples of Gregs work w/WW/Cheetah arent cases of sexism.
Making WW not invulnerable or as strong as Superman doesn't constitute instant sexism.

Having Cheetah get defeated by another female doesn't constitute sexism. This is just another glorified "powers" complaint.

Bad writing or underpowering superheroes without sexism, is still a bad thing, so why is that even important?

Some things are black and white. Catwoman defeating Cheetah is very black and white. Its not sexism no way you look at it.

It is terrible writing any way you look at it, and disrespectful anyways, so does anyone truly feel better if it is not sexism?

So if she's a stone cold killer its more acceptable as long as she is the strongest in the story?

Are you just a big fan of strawman arguments, or are you not aware about how much this is an almost textbook example of a strawman argument?

[Rightoya]

I'll accept that she isn't, for example, as strong as Superman. No skin off my back. But she should be equal in strength to a female kryptonian.

That truly just sounds like sexism to be honest, because it makes not even much sense for female kryptonians to be generally weaker than male kryptonians, much less for a totally different kind of being just because she is female. Even though i would have no problem with them just being comparably powerful, with something like Superman is physically stronger and more all around invulnerable, but Wonder Woman can move/fight and react faster as example, and at best not just something as questionable and misused like that she is allegedly more skilled again.

[phonogram12]

Putting words in my mouth?

Pot meet kettle.

Never wanted a story about power levels, I want a story that is both good and respects the powers she has. When something that doesn't make sense to me, such as Aquaman destroying her in the water (he should win, but not that comfortably) and actually is winning against her on land and would have if not for Steve Trevor, then that is bad writing. So, tell me, how is that character of hers advanced in that scenario? Is she just weaker than normal just because? She can't fly just because? She doesn't use her supposed superior speed or amazon skills just because?

If you want just character, maybe we should get rid of the superheroics altogether. It's not like it would impact her that much with the exception of her or her villains jobbing so frequently. But hey, character, because you know, a comic book hero needs story, forget about her powers. Superman would be that much better if they just focused on the home life of Lois and Clark. Make him grounded and only as strong as a circus strongman. I mean, that was what his costume was fashioned after. But at least we can get to the root of it, because story at the expense of powers should trump all. So we don't have to worry about the writers disrespecting powers anymore because all we want to see is story. It's all so simple. Story, then character, and then maybe the powers that makes him or her stand out at the end of the list. That's the ticket!

Good strawman argument about moving planets. Haven't heard that one before nor have I ever wanted that for any character.

HA! Look who's putting words in mouths that aren't there own now.

[Rightoya]

Never wanted a story about power levels, I want a story that is both good and respects the powers she has. When something that doesn't make sense to me, such as Aquaman destroying her in the water (he should win, but not that comfortably) and actually is winning against her on land and would have if not for Steve Trevor, then that is bad writing..

That reminds me that i have recently seen this:



Which is kind of just a very underhanded way of saying that Wonder Woman is inferior to Aquaman, because if they are equals on land but nobody is truly his equal underwater, he is basically just superior to her.

[Primal Slayer]

Bad writing or underpowering superheroes without sexism, is still a bad thing, so why is that even important?



It is terrible writing any way you look at it, and disrespectful anyways, so does anyone truly feel better if it is not sexism?



Are you just a big fan of strawman arguments, or are you not aware about how much this is an almost textbook example of a strawman argument?

It isn't about feeling better, to try use sexism and say that X writer is being sexist vs. poor writing are two very different things. It isnt something to just lightly put on someone.

You can use your strawman argument all you want, enjoy it. If you want the most important thing about WW to be her power level, your prerogative.

[Rightoya]

It isn't about feeling better, to try use sexism and say that X writer is being sexist vs. poor writing are two very different things. It isnt something to just lightly put on someone.

You can use your strawman argument all you want, enjoy it. If you want the most important thing about WW to be her power level, your prerogative.

Fair enough, but quite a few examples of poor writing involving Wonder Woman kind of look like sexism, and i mean not just the truly old ones.

But you are using a strawman argument here, just because someone recognizes that Wonder Woman and her villains get often underpowered or jobbed out especially in comparison with male colleagues, don't means they just want a soulless killer machine with endless power.

[phonogram12]

"You get a strawman! And you get a strawman! Everyone gets a strawman!"

[Alpha]

It isn't about feeling better, to try use sexism and say that X writer is being sexist vs. poor writing are two very different things. It isnt something to just lightly put on someone.

You can use your strawman argument all you want, enjoy it. If you want the most important thing about WW to be her power level, your prerogative.

I don't have to energy to engage but I concur with everything Primal Slayer is saying

[Rightoya]

I don't have to energy to engage but I concur with everything Primal Slayer is saying

So you also don't understand what a strawman argument is?

[WonderLight789]

So you also don't understand what a strawman argument is?

I think it is pretty obvious that sexism is a big part in how WW was and still is treated in many cases. Like i said, it can happen subconsciously too. Some people here thinking that it's just about power levels, but it is not. And even if we focus on that. It's very telling how characters will receive a different treatment on the power chart because of their gender. Nobody here can tell me that the notion that female characters must be put in their place, has never crossed the mind of many writers with the way they decide to handle things between what they do with female characters compared to the male characters.

[phonogram12]

And even if we focus on that....

Let's not pretend that this isn't always your focus, anyway.

[WonderLight789]

Let's not pretend that this isn't always your focus, anyway.

It is not. See post number 45.

[Rightoya]

Let's not pretend that this isn't always your focus, anyway.

DC and WB certainly produce enough questionable Wonder Woman material for someone to lose themselves in that, and you will ironically still find far more power complains regarding Superman throughout the internet.

[phonogram12]

DC and WB certainly produce enough questionable Wonder Woman material for someone to lose themselves in that, and you will ironically still find far more power complains regarding Superman throughout the internet.

Never said there wasn't. Do I think that these complaints can be justified for both WW and Superman every once and again? Sure. Are power levels literally the only thing that define a character's worth? Absolutely not.

It is not. See post number 45.

And yet there you are complaining about power levels, anyway. You barely even make a passing reference to her morality and goodness.