possible signs of sexism, including weisman.

[WonderLight789]

Never said there wasn't. Do I think that these complaints can be justified for both WW and Superman every once and again? Sure. Are power levels literally the only thing that define a character's worth? Absolutely not.



And yet there you are complaining about power levels, anyway...

Just go to page 3. Post number 45.

[phonogram12]

Just go to page 3. Post number 45.

Edited my post. Here's my reply:

It is not. See post number 45.

And yet there you are complaining about power levels, anyway. You barely even make a passing reference to her morality and goodness.

[WonderLight789]

Edited my post. Here's my reply:



And yet there you are complaining about power levels, anyway. You barely even make a passing reference to her morality and goodness.

I don'0t have to explain myself to you. Keep on thinking that WW is treated right and that sexism is not a factor. Hope you continue to enjoy the mediocre and in many cases sexist writing that she keeps on getting.

[Rightoya]

Never said there wasn't. Do I think that these complaints can be justified for both WW and Superman every once and again? Sure.

The problem is, every once and again is basically an understatement in Wonder Woman's case, and she is even quite often the victim of making Superman look powerful by throwing her under the bus.

Are power levels literally the only thing that define a character's worth? Absolutely not.

No, but who even said that?

[Perseus]

I often felt like Scott Snyder made it seem like Diana was useless without some magic gear that wasn't hers or whatever power boost he decided to use that week and then subsequently forget about afterwards. This goes for his depiction of Cheetah too in the whole Dark Knights metal storyline that essentially took over DC for like 2 years and ultimately amounted to nothing.

Like in his first storyline with the justice league after Metal had the league deal with the aftermath of the source wall breaking and all the villains getting powerups. He stated in interviews, I remember, that the first story would focus on the whole team, the second Hawkgirl/MMH/and GL, the third Batman and Superman, and the last would be an Aquaman and Wonder Woman. I already didn't like the idea of placing Aquaman with Diana because the implication of them being seen on the same level, which doesn't help the poor showings and only adds to the glorified superhuman portrayal.

In the first story involving the whole team he had all the members show off why they were on the JL. Superman showed off his powers by blocking Sinetro's lanterns that were going to destroy the earth or something. Batman showed off being a leader and his intelligence (and just about everything per usual with Scott being a Bat Fan). Aquaman showed off his powers and control over sealife and the ocean. I forget what GL did. Wanna know what Diana did..... give Flash a generic speech about how he should slow down sometimes. A speech you could have anyone give with the same significance. I still remember the issue synopsis for issue #7...

"It’s wall-to-Source-Wall Justice League action as artist Jim Cheung rejoins writer Scott Snyder! Hawkgirl takes wing against Legion of Doom leader Lex Luthor; John Stewart faces off with old foe Sinestro; the Flash must run down the Still Force-empowered Gorilla Grodd; and Wonder Woman tackles the tag team of Black Manta and Cheetah—underwater, no less! "

I legit believed we were going to see all that warrior skill that Snyder talks about come to fruition. For context this is the story were Grodd, Cheetah, and Manta fight Flash, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman in that underwater base. Grodd had control over the still force and used his mind control on Diana and Aurthur to have them fight each other. I was like, ok Diana thinks Aquaman is actually Cheetah and Aurthur thinks Diana is Black Manta. Obviously Diana is goning to be fighting with more strength and speed on her since Cheetah is as powerful as her and not just a human in a super suit that shoots laser beams. But even ignoring that Diana is just leagues above Aquaman based on feats. So, Diana is either gonna free herself from Grodd's mind control via lasso (or just because she has the eyes of truth), or beat Aurther then free herself, then Fight Grodd, Cheetah, and Manta in an epic 1v3 saving her teammates and allowing them to complete their mission. This is why Diana is need on the league.

Imagine my surprise or not at all, when I picked up the issue only to see Diana and Aurthur knocking each other out and Cheetah and Manta beginning to escape. Only to then have Aurther get up to stop them and Diana give that meaningless speech to Flash, a speech he has probably gotten like a thousand times.

The synopsis legit lied, Wonder Woman did nothing to Cheetah and Manta, Aquaman did. Aquaman and Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, and of course Superman and Batman get cool moments to show off thier powers/skill set/and abilities to showcase why they are on the JL, But Diana.... she gets a generic speech. I stopped reading JL after that.

[Psy-lock]

I often felt like Scott Snyder made it seem like Diana was useless without some magic gear that wasn't hers or whatever power boost he decided to use that week and then subsequently forget about afterwards. This goes for his depiction of Cheetah too in the whole Dark Knights metal storyline that essentially took over DC for like 2 years and ultimately amounted to nothing.

Like in his first storyline with the justice league after Metal had the league deal with the aftermath of the source wall breaking and all the villains getting powerups. He stated in interviews, I remember, that the first story would focus on the whole team, the second Hawkgirl/MMH/and GL, the third Batman and Superman, and the last would be an Aquaman and Wonder Woman. I already didn't like the idea of placing Aquaman with Diana because the implication of them being seen on the same level, which doesn't help the poor showings and only adds to the glorified superhuman portrayal.

In the first story involving the whole team he had all the members show off why they were on the JL. Superman showed off his powers by blocking Sinetro's lanterns that were going to destroy the earth or something. Batman showed off being a leader and his intelligence (and just about everything per usual with Scott being a Bat Fan). Aquaman showed off his powers and control over sealife and the ocean. I forget what GL did. Wanna know what Diana did..... give Flash a generic speech about how he should slow down sometimes. A speech you could have anyone give with the same significance. I still remember the issue synopsis for issue #7...

"It’s wall-to-Source-Wall Justice League action as artist Jim Cheung rejoins writer Scott Snyder! Hawkgirl takes wing against Legion of Doom leader Lex Luthor; John Stewart faces off with old foe Sinestro; the Flash must run down the Still Force-empowered Gorilla Grodd; and Wonder Woman tackles the tag team of Black Manta and Cheetah—underwater, no less! "

I legit believed we were going to see all that warrior skill that Snyder talks about come to fruition. For context this is the story were Grodd, Cheetah, and Manta fight Flash, Aquaman, and Wonder Woman in that underwater base. Grodd had control over the still force and used his mind control on Diana and Aurthur to have them fight each other. I was like, ok Diana thinks Aquaman is actually Cheetah and Aurthur thinks Diana is Black Manta. Obviously Diana is goning to be fighting with more strength and speed on her since Cheetah is as powerful as her and not just a human in a super suit that shoots laser beams. But even ignoring that Diana is just leagues above Aquaman based on feats. So, Diana is either gonna free herself from Grodd's mind control via lasso (or just because she has the eyes of truth), or beat Aurther then free herself, then Fight Grodd, Cheetah, and Manta in an epic 1v3 saving her teammates and allowing them to complete their mission. This is why Diana is need on the league.

Imagine my surprise or not at all, when I picked up the issue only to see Diana and Aurthur knocking each other out and Cheetah and Manta beginning to escape. Only to then have Aurther get up to stop them and Diana give that meaningless speech to Flash, a speech he has probably gotten like a thousand times.

The synopsis legit lied, Wonder Woman did nothing to Cheetah and Manta, Aquaman did. Aquaman and Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, and of course Superman and Batman get cool moments to show off thier powers/skill set/and abilities to showcase why they are on the JL, But Diana.... she gets a generic speech. I stopped reading JL after that.

Wow, that sounds horrendous. Good thing I dropped the book early on.

[DochaDocha]

Marston - Used WW to fulfill his horny fantasies, had WW lose to street-leveler Cheetah. Very disrespectful to Marston's creation.

LOL the serious responses to this line.

[BiteTheBullet]

That truly just sounds like sexism to be honest, because it makes not even much sense for female kryptonians to be generally weaker than male kryptonians, much less for a totally different kind of being just because she is female. Even though i would have no problem with them just being comparably powerful, with something like Superman is physically stronger and more all around invulnerable, but Wonder Woman can move/fight and react faster as example, and at best not just something as questionable and misused like that she is allegedly more skilled again.

Sorry, must have skipped over this post. I wasn't trying to be sexist, only that no one in the DC universe can be stronger than alpha male Superman so I don't care if he ends up stronger. Only that Wonder Woman is as close to him in strength as the Supergirls are. If they want to say some bullsh@t thing like males tend to be stronger so that should apply to sun powered aliens, so be it. I know in this universe, Superman is always going to be the big dog in strength. But, as you have pointed out, and wishing Dwyane McDuffie was still with us and writing great stories like he did, she has better reflexes and is by far a better fighter which should negate his strength advantages. But we rarely see this in the comics being played out. Usually it is something stupid like Superman shattering her indestructible bracelets or strangling her with her own lasso.

[phonogram12]

I don'0t have to explain myself to you.

Never said you have to. Although it probably would've been easier to simply not respond to my post.

Keep on thinking that WW is treated right and that sexism is not a factor.

Never said it wasn't. All I've been saying is that it's rather tiresome that there are some here who only see WW's worth in terms of her power levels and that these same posters turn nearly every post they participate in about that and that alone.

Hope you continue to enjoy the mediocre and in many cases sexist writing that she keeps on getting.

I appreciate your permission, thanks (although I really haven't regularly picked up the main WW series in awhile).

And if you really feel like you don't have to explain yourself, well, I guess I won't be expecting any sort of reply from you then.

[phonogram12]

The problem is, every once and again is basically an understatement in Wonder Woman's case, and she is even quite often the victim of making Superman look powerful by throwing her under the bus.

Superman fans often say the same about him. For the record, I don't think either is right.

No, but who even said that?

When that's all some can literally talk about, it isn't exactly an implausible statement to make.

[Agent Z]

Never said you have to. Although it probably would've been easier to simply not respond to my post.



Never said it wasn't. All I've been saying is that it's rather tiresome that there are some here who only see WW's worth in terms of her power levels and that these same posters turn nearly every post they participate in about that and that alone.



I appreciate your permission, thanks (although I really haven't regularly picked up the main WW series in awhile).

And if you really feel like you don't have to explain yourself, well, I guess I won't be expecting any sort of reply from you then.

Honest question: why are you in this thread if it isn't a conversation you care for? I don't always agree with mystical41 but in this case it feels like the person derailing the thread is, well, you.

[Rightoya]

Superman fans often say the same about him.

I don't remember seeing anyone ever saying that Superman gets often thrown under the bus to make Wonder Woman look powerful, and that would be also a quite obvious lie, Death Earth is basically the only full example i could even name without thinking about it for a good while. Are you sure they did not just say, that Superman gets often thrown under the bus to make Batman look good?

For the record, I don't think either is right.

What? Literally milions of people have seen it with the entire rest of the Justice League as victim in the DCEU, and it is not like as if we would nearly need to go back to Matt Wagner's Trinity for a more specific Wonder Woman example, even in the not dubious canon.

When that's all some can literally talk about, it isn't exactly an implausible statement to make.

I get the feeling you underestimate how often Wonder Woman and some of her villains get portrayed as quite weak, especially in comparison with certain male superheroes or supervillains, but there are also many other silly things that it sometimes randomly looks like she can't fly even outside of examples where she truly can't fly.

I do think that mystical41 exaggerates and makes this theme seemingly too often the only thing they talk about, but it is true that there exist many quite obvious issues with Wonder Woman in this regard.

[WonderLight789]

I don't remember seeing anyone ever saying that Superman gets often thrown under the bus to make Wonder Woman look powerful, and that would be also a quite obvious lie, Death Earth is basically the only full example i could even name without thinking about it for a good while. Are you sure they did not just say, that Superman gets often thrown under the bus to make Batman look good?



What? Literally milions of people have seen it with the entire rest of the Justice League as victim in the DCEU, and it is not like as if we would nearly need to go back to Matt Wagner's Trinity for a more specific Wonder Woman example, even in the not dubious canon.



I get the feeling you underestimate how often Wonder Woman and some of her villains get portrayed as quite weak, especially in comparison with certain male superheroes or supervillains, but there are also many other silly things that it sometimes randomly looks like she can't fly even outside of examples where she truly can't fly.

I do think that mystical41 exaggerates and makes this theme seemingly too often the only thing they talk about, but it is true that there exist many quite obvious issues with Wonder Woman in this regard.

And here look what i found. This is the writer that had the male Cheetah fight Superman. Just take a look at what he said about that comic and the issues with the editors. We can only wish editors cared this much about WW and her lore.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLz_eLHa...pg&name=medium

[Gitagon]

That reminds me that i have recently seen this:



Which is kind of just a very underhanded way of saying that Wonder Woman is inferior to Aquaman, because if they are equals on land but nobody is truly his equal underwater, he is basically just superior to her.

She is already getting dethroned by multiple men within the JL. Aquaman has been portrayed as equal or even superior to Wonder Woman so many times now in animation (Flashpoint, JSA), in comics, even the movies in a way.

Green Lanterns have gotten so many feats in just the last 10 years, I won't even mention MMH who also got elevated. Flash again despite all the Ls he takes, he has way more higher showings than Wonder Woman can ever hope for.

And if Superman is outright stronger, we have multiple DC media with countless Kryptonians running around which would make so many above Wonder Woman in terms of raw power, speed, durability, etc.

All Wonder Woman is left with is vague "skill" which even street levellers like Deathstroke can compete with. So all she has over characters like Supergirl, Powergirl, and the bajillion other Kryptonians is "skill" while they are outright superior to her.

So much for being DC's leading woman.

[Perseus]

She is already getting dethroned by multiple men within the JL. Aquaman has been portrayed as equal or even superior to Wonder Woman so many times now in animation (Flashpoint, JSA), in comics, even the movies in a way.

Green Lanterns have gotten so many feats in just the last 10 years, I won't even mention MMH who also got elevated. Flash again despite all the Ls he takes, he has way more higher showings than Wonder Woman can ever hope for.

And if Superman is outright stronger, we have multiple DC media with countless Kryptonians running around which would make so many above Wonder Woman in terms of raw power, speed, durability, etc.

All Wonder Woman is left with is vague "skill" which even street levellers like Deathstroke can compete with. So all she has over characters like Supergirl, Powergirl, and the bajillion other Kryptonians is "skill" while they are outright superior to her.

So much for being DC's leading woman.

This is truly an accomplishment really, if you think about it. Never seen a company decide to advance backwards on an IP in real time before.