possible signs of sexism, including weisman.

[Mistah K88]

The thing is you don't see Riddler and Penguin beating up Doomsday in a physical fight.

Bane would be a better example as those two would be more cerebral villains. That said, has Giganta lost a fight to anyone in the Bat mythos?

[phonogram12]

If she keeps being treated like trash by the writers and editors of course she won't have any memorable stories.

See, I agree with this. It just takes more than just beat 'em ups and stats to make a memorable story.

That is not the point.

So stats only matter when you say so. Got it.

If she keeps getting treated like trash by writers and editors.

Okay, so let's give her a reason to be memorable. That said, while I love Catwoman, I haven't seen this new animated movie (probably won't until it appears on HBOMax). I can honestly say that her defeating Cheetah does not make me think any better of her. Nor would it have me think any better of Cheetah had it turned out the other way around. Anyone can write a story where one character can beat up another. Writing a story where I actually care about a character enough for me to want them to win? That takes skill.

And every character has a certain used. What is so memorable about Doomsday? What is so complex about the character? His whole thing is being a killing machine that killed Superman and can threat the earth and JL. There isn't much more to him than that.

I agree, which is why I find him/it to be a boring character. Literally, his entire claim to fame is that he killed Superman once. The writers themselves admitted they had no idea where to take the character after doing that.

Yet do you see the writers and editos constantly using him as a punching bag for street levelers? No. They have more respect for what his stats and level are supposed to be.

Actually, if you've read the Superman/Batman arc where they reintroduced Supergirl/Kara into the modern era, you'd see otherwise. Not saying that makes it right, but it just goes along with my point that nobody cares about Doomsday enough to care that he wins.

Character moments and good power level porttrayal. One thing doesn't negate the other.

I agree. But character moments generally lead to better stories. And better stories generally lead to a character like Cheetah being treated the way you want her to.

[Primal Slayer]

I think a lot of writers still think of Superfriends when they think of Cheetah and probably dont even realize she's a different character whose been "blessed" by a god to amplify her powers. They see her as someone whose superhuman but not SUPER human.

[phonogram12]

I think a lot of writers still think of Superfriends when they think of Cheetah and probably dont even realize she's a different character whose been "blessed" by a god to amplify her powers. They see her as someone whose superhuman but not SUPER human.

Too bad WW84 didn't give a better portrayal of her (which I don't put on Kristen Wiig, btw. I think she's absolutely great). Maybe then editorial would care enough into giving her some actual character development.

[Primal Slayer]

Too bad WW84 didn't give a better portrayal of her (which I don't put on Kristen Wiig, btw. I think she's absolutely great). Maybe then editorial would care enough into giving her some actual character development.

Yeah its really a shame what they did in that film. Both to Lord and Barb

[WonderLight789]

See, I agree with this. It just takes more than just beat 'em ups and stats to make a memorable story.



So stats only matter when you say so. Got it.



Okay, so let's give her a reason to be memorable. That said, while I love Catwoman, I haven't seen this new animated movie (probably won't until it appears on HBOMax). I can honestly say that her defeating Cheetah does not make me think any better of her. Nor would it have me think any better of Cheetah had it turned out the other way around. Anyone can write a story where one character can beat up another. Writing a story where I actually care about a character enough for me to want them to win? That takes skill.



I agree, which is why I find him/it to be a boring character. Literally, his entire claim to fame is that he killed Superman once. The writers themselves admitted they had no idea where to take the character after doing that.



Actually, if you've read the Superman/Batman arc where they reintroduced Supergirl/Kara into the modern era, you'd see otherwise. Not saying that makes it right, but it just goes along with my point that nobody cares about Doomsday enough to care that he wins.



I agree. But character moments generally lead to better stories. And better stories generally lead to a character like Cheetah being treated the way you want her to.

Not in this case. First you need to re do a long history of Cheetah being known as a weaklink in almost everyfight that isn't against WW. The most basic of her character is supposed to be a formidable powerful opponent and they don't even get that right and affect WW's own reputation as a result.

[WonderLight789]

Yeah its really a shame what they did in that film. Both to Lord and Barb

Patty Jenkins couldn't create a proper action-powerhouse film even if her life depended on it. So nobody should be surprised. This is why most WW villains will suffer under her. She is not suited for good action and battle scenes. And a lore like WW is supposed to have that. If she could have her way both WW films would have ended with no epic battle moment. And that can work for one film. But you can't have a lore like WW and never get into the power, action spectacle side of her world. Cheetah needed a strong debut. She needed that badly. And jenkins and johns truly let her down. Sad

[Rightoya]

And here look what i found. This is the writer that had the male Cheetah fight Superman. Just take a look at what he said about that comic and the issues with the editors. We can only wish editors cared this much about WW and her lore.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLz_eLHa...pg&name=medium

The sad part is, i am not even surprised about their one-sided super-protection of Superman or the casual sexism at DC, and i am still not to 100% sure how much that has truly changed to this day.

[WonderLight789]

The sad part is, i am not even surprised about their one-sided super-protection of Superman or the casual sexism at DC, and i am still not to 100% sure how much that has truly changed to this day.

20 years later not much has changed. See castwoman hunted. And see JL comic. Where Cheetah was about to defeat WW. Until Batman came in a and one shotted Cheetah with an old lex luthor suit. I don't know why some people here still say that sexism isn't a factor.

[Alpha]

Because Barbara Minerva isn't the most important female villain

[Agent Z]

Because Barbara Minerva isn't the most important female villain

And Wonder Woman isn't the most important female heroine according to a lot of people who really like Harley Quinn.

[WonderLight789]

Because Barbara Minerva isn't the most important female villain

Even villains like Black Manta or Flash villains don't get this level of disrespect. And they aren't the archy enemy of the supposedly most iconic and important female hero of all time.

[Rightoya]

Because Barbara Minerva isn't the most important female villain

Who else is, Circe, Poison Ivy?

[Alpha]

Who else is, Circe, Poison Ivy?

Poison Ivy is a much bigger villain than Cheetah yes.

[Rightoya]

Poison Ivy is a much bigger villain than Cheetah yes.

That is probably true, but just sad, considering that she is typcally not even in the top 5 of Batman villains.