Hits/Misses of Heroes becoming God-level

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Power level up is always a nice path to take a hero on. But it generally has to be short-lived. Clark, Bruce, Diana, Wally, Hal, John, Kyle, they've all become Gods at one point or another. But they generally fall to Earth soon enough because we don't want things getting too crazy.

Sometimes, it can work though. Case in point, one Hal Jordan. And one Wally West.

Both of those guys went through some narrative and editorial left turns that felt pretty terrible at the time, but actually ended up serving the characters well in the long-term.

Hal got turned into a mass murdering sad man.

Wally got turned into PTSD war crimes sad man.

Those were terrrrrrrible ideas. But the journey getting those characters back was fantastic, and both involved the fallen heroes ascending to godhood to come back the other side, refreshed and renewed, better than ever.

Hal as Parallax had moments of greatness. The Warrior vs Parallax fight was balls-out fantastic. Parallax cold-cocking Superman with One Punch was the best part of Zero Hour.

Hall as The Spectre was also pretty great, helped in no small part due to Ryan Sook and Norm Breyfogle mixing with JM DeMatteis's pshychodelic philosophizing.

I loved Spectre Hal showing up and restoring Wally & Barry's secret identities again. Spectre Hal was extremely well-used in JLAvengers!

Wally West was always the Chosen One. The Speed Force has been his journey and he ascended and kept on running towards, the last I checked, absorbing the power of Doctor Manhattan and restarting the entire DCU until...The Metal Wars.

They can't all be winners.

Diana has been a Goddess so many times now that I've lost count. I generally like a more ground-level Wonder Woman with Superman '38 powers so I am clearly not the audience for Goddess of Truth stories.

BatGod is tirrrrrresome. Superman is already powerful enough. He doesn't need more powers. I like where he's at now, as a middle-aged guy back to his '38 power levels.

Hal Jordan worked, I think, because his power levels have always been insane. You're just turning his volume level louder.

John Stewart became a God...then Emerald Twilight pissed it all away.

We needed a Parallax vs Master Builder fight goddammit!

Part 1 of Emerald Twilight should have been Hal vs The Corps, part 2 should've been Hal vs Sinestro, and part 3 is Hal vs John.

THAT would have been a great story, particularly when paired with Kyle's own Chosen One arc.

I got my fingers crossed that John's current Ascended arc works out well for him, too.

What do you think? Which Heroes as Gods arcs have you enjoyed the most?

[The Darknight Detective]

What do you think? Which Heroes as Gods arcs have you enjoyed the most?

Won't this thread turn into "It's okay if it's a character I like and he/she isn't turned into a criminal, but stinks for a character I dislike unless he/she takes the supervillain route (taking his popular codename away for a character you'd rather have that superhero costume instead is okay, too)?"

I mean, Ernest Hemingway or Toni Morrison could have written the story, but if a character you like gets slimed, it's still going to stink in your eyes.

[j9ac9k]

We needed a Parallax vs Master Builder fight goddammit!

To each their own, but I do not. I'm not a fan of seeing friends fight just to see it happen. Those two don't have long-standing animosity towards one another. It was one thing when Hal and Guy had their mega-brawl for the earth. I wasn't a fan of some aspects of that fight, but those two were headed towards a confrontation for a long time. John and Hal fighting would have to be contrived so the idea doesn't thrill me. (and if you're thinking it's "I just want to make things right" Parallax, again no thank you - I was not a fan of that depiction of the character. It's not really Hal anyway)


One example of god-leveling up was Orion, when he possessed the anti-Life Equation. That was a natural progression of a story and a big part of Orion's journey to be (or not to be) his Father. That was handled really well by Simonson. (and it featured what might be my favorite Mr Miracle appearance ever)

[Agent Z]

Diana's only been a goddess twice. Both times were temporary and she never got a power boost from either. The first time she wasn't even allowed to directly interfere in mortal matters.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

To each their own, but I do not. I'm not a fan of seeing friends fight just to see it happen. Those two don't have long-standing animosity towards one another. It was one thing when Hal and Guy had their mega-brawl for the earth. I wasn't a fan of some aspects of that fight, but those two were headed towards a confrontation for a long time. John and Hal fighting would have to be contrived so the idea doesn't thrill me. (and if you're thinking it's "I just want to make things right" Parallax, again no thank you - I was not a fan of that depiction of the character. It's not really Hal anyway)

John and Hal didn't have a long-standing animosity towards one another? I think we were reading very different comics during the 80s and 90s because those two had a very interesting friendship that boiled over into violence on more than one occasion. The GL Special #1 in which Hal & John fought in Apartheid-era South Africa and the Mind War issue of GL: Mosaic are both better than any of the dumb dick-measuring contests that Hal & Guy used to have, in my view.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Diana's only been a goddess twice. Both times were temporary and she never got a power boost from either. The first time she wasn't even allowed to directly interfere in mortal matters.

Only twice? It feels like more than that. You're right, though. She was the Goddess of Truth during Byrne's run and then again at the end of Death Metal. And both times were extraordinarily dull to me.

However, again, a lot of that is mostly just my preference for WW with a Superman '38 power-set.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Won't this thread turn into "It's okay if it's a character I like and he/she isn't turned into a criminal, but stinks for a character I dislike unless he/she takes the supervillain route (taking his popular codename away for a character you'd rather have that superhero costume instead is okay, too)?"

Lots of threads tend to devolve into the same rants sooner or later, but I'm not posting new discussion topics based upon the worst case scenario.

[Riv86672]

Won't this thread turn into "It's okay if it's a character I like…

Well, I like Batman. Like, a lot.
Him gaining godlike powers (like the Mobius Chair) has never appealed to me, but at least that was temporary.

Him having become “Bat God”, in that he has and is the best at every possible skill and wears about a billion dollars worth of armor and weaponry on the daily doesn’t much appeal to me, either.

[j9ac9k]

John and Hal didn't have a long-standing animosity towards one another? I think we were reading very different comics during the 80s and 90s because those two had a very interesting friendship that boiled over into violence on more than one occasion. The GL Special #1 in which Hal & John fought in Apartheid-era South Africa and the Mind War issue of GL: Mosaic are both better than any of the dumb dick-measuring contests that Hal & Guy used to have, in my view.

Yeah, I read those. But to me that was close friends having a difference of opinion rather than portraying a dislike for one another. Ollie and Hal fought all the time, but I wouldn't expect or want to see them actually throw down against each other because without one of them being a villain, they wouldn't really fight each other. (aside from the occasional sock to the jaw )

[Jabare]

Raven is the only one I acknowledge

[9th.]

Vixen tapping into powers of other heroes in the 2000s JO run. (Hit)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yeah, I read those. But to me that was close friends having a difference of opinion rather than portraying a dislike for one another. Ollie and Hal fought all the time, but I wouldn't expect or want to see them actually throw down against each other because without one of them being a villain, they wouldn't really fight each other. (aside from the occasional sock to the jaw )

That's why a Parallax vs Master Builder fight would have had a lot of juice to me. All that history between Hal & John would be bubbling under the surface, which would have made made it all the more exciting than the lame incineration of Kilowog we got instead as Hal's final act before absorbing the Central Power Battery.

Keep in mind that, in this completely theoretical rewrite of Emerald Twilight, we would know from the get-go that Hal has been infected with the Yellow Impurity. I think that would have allowed them to go full-bore with Hal's villainy like they can with Vampire Hal now.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Raven is the only one I acknowledge

Raven is a great one. And one of the earliest, too.

Actually, it might be the earliest within the DCU, unless we count Superman achieving cosmic consciousness with the whole Sword of Superman stuff, but I was never clear on exactly what that story was about. I've only read snippets of it.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Well, I like Batman. Like, a lot.
Him gaining godlike powers (like the Mobius Chair) has never appealed to me, but at least that was temporary.

Him having become “Bat God”, in that he has and is the best at every possible skill and wears about a billion dollars worth of armor and weaponry on the daily doesn’t much appeal to me, either.

Same here. Batman works best for me as a more human-level character. Him being uber-prepared for every conceivable situation and having a backup plan already read in his Utility Belt was fun for a bit when Morrison was writing him in JLA, but it got old very quickly, though. And Batman with cosmic powers just doesn't resonate with me at all.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Hmmm, Kyle worked really well the first time he was Ion. The second was underwhelming, and by the time he became White Lantern it got kind of meh. (Story was good though, the concept was what it was lame)

John, both times.

Jordan worked as Parallax to me for a while, but then he just got too villainy, IDK. Jordan as the Spectre was one of a very few times I liked the character.

Wally worked great in Kingdom Come, didn't work with Manhattan and Metron powers at all.

Superman 1.000.000 is just perfect.

The Trinity turned into gods in Kurt Busiek's Trinity didn't work for me.

Dan Turpin as Darkseid was great!