Where do we go from here?

[Mistah K88]

When it comes to the most recent trilogy… eh things haven’t been great, to the point that the once hated prequel trilogy can be seen as masterpieces. However, if there were sequels to the sequel trilogy, what would you do to make things work in your eyes, building off of what was established in the recent movies? It’s easy to say what you would change about the recent movies, but a good writer could make something that they disliked salvageable. Heck in fact, I feel that trying to course correct (twice) instead of working with the hand that was dealt is what made the movies worse than they needed to be. So the question is, where do we go from here? What plot elements that were established in the sequel trilogy could be expanded upon? Basically without retconning anything, how would you handle sequels with the hand you were dealt?

[ChrisIII]

Disney right now seems to have a good chunk of the TV series working on building on ROTJ/TFA gap, which is pretty big, while others seem to be fleshing out some of the PT/OT gap (Kenobi, Andor, Bad Batch).

Of course there's also a few High Republic projects in development as well.

I think one of the Visions episodes, although non-canon, was hinted to be post-TROS, and I think one or two comics take place after. I suppose it's possible they might do something like the old EU, which had the books/comics/games continue the story, but of course with that they kind of run the risk of having that mostly tossed out when a new trilogy rolls around, like with what happened to that EU (Although with some stuff reworked/saved like Thrawn, Darktroopers, the New Republic name, Palpatine and Boba coming back etc.)

[Ascended]

Well, if that was the job.....

Assuming I could do whatever I wanted, as long as it didn't contradict canon and I wasn't getting in the way of any current, unannounced plans.....I'd maybe do a time jump. At least a century.

The New Republic and new Jedi Order both failed in the sequel films partially, I think, because both organizations attempted to rebuild what had come before. They didn't learn the lesson of the Chosen One prophesy; for the Force to truly be balanced, new things were needed, not a return to the pre-Empire status quo. So to justify those films and prove that Luke was at least kinda right in TLJ, we'd ditch the binary conflicts of SW and add more variety; more groups and factions, each with various allies and agendas. Keep the mythological, fantasy elements, just add a little more variance and complexity to the basic conflicts.

I'd have the galaxy divided among a few large governments; the Mandalorian Empire among them, and I don't know what else. Some version of the Republic would still be alive, but smaller and built differently than what came before; more manageable, more capable of taking care of all its citizens. I'd have to brush up on my SW canon to decide who gets a giant government, which systems are fully independent, and what those groups might have for goals, policy, traditions, etc.

I'd likewise get rid of the Jedi's monopoly on the Force. As Luke said, the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi, so we'd have several groups of Force users; all smaller than the old Jedi Order, each with their own particular flavor and purpose.

Just shooting from the hip here but....

Grogu would have founded a Mando-Jedi fusion; lightsabers and beskar, Force tricks and jetpacks, this Order would be charged with protecting the rebuilt Mandalorian Empire. Largely autonomous and answerable to the government but not the military, they'd serve as thief catchers, bounty hunters, and peacekeepers within the Mando Empire. This is the Way.

The Shaman of Dathomir would be a cult spread across the galaxy that follow the teachings of the old Witches. Force using killers and agents of chaos riding rancors and monsters, they'd pursue their own selfish ends and cause all manner of trouble wherever and whenever they show up.

Rey would have built a kind of Gray Jedi Order; mixing the Light and Dark sides, with powers from both, they'd have the most Force utility of any group. A mostly good aligned Order, though capable of surprising cruelty, they'd be wanderers and nomads who recognize no government authority or border, and go wherever they need to go to help those in need. Kind of an army of space Robin Hoods, those in power might be happy to see them or they might call the guards, depending on the situation.

Finn would have built an Order within the new (new) Republic that looks a lot like the Jedi during the Clone Wars; Force using soldiers with lightsabers who use squads of soldiers for support crews, answerable to the government but also tasked with ensuring that government doesn't become as corrupt as the last Republic.

We'd also have a fairly traditional Jedi that follow many (not all) of the old ways, from before the Order was corrupted during the Clone Wars. Influenced by Luke, Ashoka, maybe Ezra (depending on how his story ends?) these guys wouldn't be part of a government and would be the closest thing to classic Jedi. Maybe we'd call them the Skywalker Order or something?

I'd probably make a few other groups, smaller and less influential. Pacifist activists, religions, cults, etc.

I dunno, I'm just making this up as I go along and I'd need time to really dig into the franchise, see what's already there and develop some proper, fitting ideas.

[godisawesome]

Start small and removed enough from certain characters and questions that the creators can earn the trust of LFL to handle the property… which for me, would mean starting with Finn, and probably doing something in the Unknown Regions. LFL’s own ostracization of Finn out of fear he would overshadow Ben Solo actually pays off here, as it means he’s the least “damaged goods” of the story, while the Unknown Regions remains a frontier that could be exploited repeatedly, and probably should have been.

And I’ve actually had a fanfiction idea for it:

- Finn is reintroduced having undergone basic Jedi training with Rey offscreen, but his way of completing it is through a Holocron (“hosted” by Zayne Carrick) they uncovered together; he is finishing his education (including building his own lightsaber) apart from her, partially so her return can be delayed, and partially so that it’s clear their relationship is still more personal than professional, since it’s revealed that Rey is… so-so at actually trying to instruct someone.

- Finn’s mission is leading a small volunteer exploratory force into the Unknown Regions to try and find the last “lost arks,” where the First Order’s final ~1,000 enslaved children; the vast bulk have already been located and freed, and these are regarded as basically “statistically acceptable” losses that’s Finn won’t accept. He’s built a bit of a reputation for having found and freed a few dozen already, and for scaring the bejeezus out of the Ifrst Order remnants on the run with the kids.

- His intial foes are the “Ren Troopers;” the personal bodyguard Kylo collected and culled when he was Supreme Leader. As an expression of Kylo’s twisted mindset and his personal antagonism with Finn, they were selected only from troopers who committed mass murder when ordered to, and trained in a needlessly masochistic but effective manner. They are generally just as brainwashed and in denial as Kylo himself was, and flit between pitiable in their refusal to accept reality and horrifying in how effective they are in using their weapons - lightsabers and lightsaber resistance shields.

- Things kick up a notch when Finn figures out that the Ren Troopers have custody over the hundred or so Force Sensitive children they culled, and believe they are following a backup plan from Kylo (it isn’t a real backup plan, since Kylo was a crazed wreck himself, but it illustrates how desperately in denial the Ren Troopers are.) They end up in battle over a mysterious planet (called… Zonoma) and end up crash landing on its surface. The planet was the Ren Troopers desitination, and introduces the new main conflict for Finn…

-…Which is that the planet, a living one, was once enslaved by the Sith eons ago befor being forgotten… along with its menagerie of Sith-spawned monsters like Leviathans, Rak-ghouls, Battle Hydras… and a population of intermixed sentients descended from, carryon on the traditions of, the Jensaari: basically armored but enslaved half-Jedi bodyguards of the Sith. The planet is in turmoil because, with the death of the Sith, their ancient curses and spells are dying too, threatening to take the lament and creatures with them.

- Finn must rally his crew, the enslaved children, and what elements of the Jensaari he can to either escape or free the planet, while also uncovering Kylo’s last legacy - he made contact with the planet, and left enough information behind a new dark side cult will be born from the Jensaari of Finn can’t stop it.

…I might have more later.

[Godzilla2099]

Disney should continue weaving the tale between the ROTJ/TFA Timeline. For the most part the story is working and the characterization is there.

If I had one wish, I'd really like to see the story from the Empire's Side. (We need a Cobra Kai Version for Star Wars) Tell it from a Soldier/Pilot/Royal Guard that believes in the cause and made a difference. Saved a planet from Bandits/Thugs/Slaves and brought order and a good economy. Not everybody on that side was evil. It'd make a great plot when he encounters somebody like Boba Fett.

As for this Sequel Trilogy...I placed it in the same filing cabinet as Schumacher's Batman and Superman Returns. Best to think they never happened.

- The story was a mess (I still couldn't tell you what the hell it was about)
- It destroyed all the classic characters fans care about
- This replacement cast for the most part was bland. Overall, they were tokens to promote Rey.

At least the Prequel Movies had some good ideas and interesting characters. Just poor execution. It definitely provided material for a creative team to work on.
- Genndy Tartakovsky's Work was phenomenal, The CGI Clone Wars was overall good, and even Rebels wasn't bad.

[Ascended]

- Finn must rally his crew, the enslaved children, and what elements of the Jensaari he can to either escape or free the planet, while also uncovering Kylo’s last legacy - he made contact with the planet, and left enough information behind a new dark side cult will be born from the Jensaari of Finn can’t stop it.

…I might have more later.

I'm feeling this. I'd love to see Finn get this kind of treatment. As much as the sequels went off the rails I think the core cast of characters was pretty good and they all deserve some redemption. But Finn most of all.

I'd really like to see the story from the Empire's Side.

We've had a little of this with Mayfeld in Mandalorian, and I agree. I don't want the Empire to be too sympathetic but indeed not every single person involved in that government and military were evil. It'd be interesting to see events explored from the perspective of someone on the other side, perhaps watch them wrestle with the realization that the Empire is in the wrong....but the rebels are still killing lots of people who were guilty of nothing more than going to work.

[Captain Craig]

When it comes to the most recent trilogy… eh things haven’t been great, to the point that the once hated prequel trilogy can be seen as masterpieces.

I almost stopped reading right there. My red flag for blatant HYPERBOLE alert was screaming in my ears.
Look, I get there are things in the sequel trilogy that aren't what everyone wanted. But a lot of that is 50yr olds screaming at clouds over expectation vs what was done. What was done was entertaining if flawed...in places. The same Lucas fans who went from screaming that surviving in a rolling fridge was ludicrous while being fine with surviving a drop out of a plane in an inflatable boat is fine are still at it. Massive eye rolls from me.

The Prequels are still poorly written and have the worst "romance/courtship" acting I've ever witnessed in something so high budget. Portman could not save it.
The Sequels are head and shoulders above the Prequels despite some flaws. You Sequel haters need to find some calm or a big bag of weed.


As for where the movies go from here I think they need a series that has a protagonist not linked to Skywalker. Should have a 20-30yr jump. The Republic should be stronger. The foes should be less Empire and more Pirates/Rogues.

[godisawesome]

We've had a little of this with Mayfeld in Mandalorian, and I agree. I don't want the Empire to be too sympathetic but indeed not every single person involved in that government and military were evil. It'd be interesting to see events explored from the perspective of someone on the other side, perhaps watch them wrestle with the realization that the Empire is in the wrong....but the rebels are still killing lots of people who were guilty of nothing more than going to work.

There's been other good "Imperial Protagonist" stories... but I think they always work best whenever they avoid actual moral ambiguity whenever the Rebels get involved; The Alliance proper has always been portrayed as surgical enough that the guys who die "going to work" are always very legitimate military targets at best, and often knowing accessories, however much they may be indirect or feel guilty about it it, to ongoing atrocities. There's a reason every single Rebel Alliance character who's got a background in the Empire shows no qualms about killing Stormtroopers and officers.

And I think that's the real attraction of an Imperial protagonist story - having a protagonist who really wants to believe they're in a Grey and Gray Morality situation at worst, and has to repeatedly embrace some level of denial about the actual issues until eventually they reach their bullshit limit and have to react against the pitch dark evil that is actually at the heart of the Empire's policies. Where in order to be just an anti-hero... they still have to break or strain regulations and orders, and repeatedly find themselves screwed over by the system as a matter of course, making their martyr complex doubly tragic as the Empire almost seems to punish the for momentary displays of standards or morals.

What made Mayfeld's moment in The Mandalorian great wasn't that he made good points in his moral ambiguity speech - it was that the second he ran into Valin Hess again, much of his previous attitude was revealed to be bullshit. Not all of it, mind you, but enough that it's clear that there's years' worth of issues he's struggling to suppress. Similarly, part of the tragic appeal of Ciena Rae's story in Lost Stars is that she keeps on trying to bend the rules to dot he right thing without breaking them, and not only gets upbraided for it by commanding officers, but discovers that her teachers were deliberately sabotaging her relationship with her best friend out of simple contempt for their closeness, and that she ends up having her own mother set up and framed by corrupt Imperial officials that she's not only helpless to do anything about, but actually also being encouraged to observe to try and crush any remaining righteousness she holds to.

Give us Imp stories like that, where the psychological horror is the very situation itself, and you realize you're in a dystopia specifically trying to break you, and I think you've got more gold than trying to make truly "grey" Imperials.

...Now back to something I would say Rey needs when/if she shows up again...

She's probably going to need a complete deconstruction of the ugly, abusive and inorganic nature of her relationship with Kylo, no matter how much LFL would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into that. Yes, her power level and the nature of her seemingly just replacing Luke is a problem as well... but I'd argue a significant portion of that problem is exacerbated and made toxic to her reception because of how "parasitic" Kylo is to her as an actual character. She basically can't have a personality if she's still attached to Kylo, and there's a limit to how deep or believable she can be as long as that relationship is protected from a critical view by LFL.

Her entire portrayal as long as he's still central to her role is to be the perfect doormat girlfriend, and that leeches over into everything else and limits her appeal to really only fans who can accept a poisonous and toxic relationship uncritically. It even catches Finn in the crossfire, since Reylo supporters inevitably turn against Finn out of paranoia.

I mean, LFL only views her as useful to Kylo right now, since they've stopped using her as a banner for inclusion when they've got more popular characters like Ahsoka to do that - they're even creating a story for their cruise-line that will likely be based off the "romance," and likely still be a one-sided pimping out of Rey as Kylo's Magic Pixie Dream Girl.

[Ascended]

There's been other good "Imperial Protagonist" stories... but I think they always work best whenever they avoid actual moral ambiguity

Yes, agreed completely. You just worded it better than I did.

...Now back to something I would say Rey needs when/if she shows up again...

She's probably going to need a complete deconstruction of the ugly, abusive and inorganic nature of her relationship with Kylo

Well he's dead so that shouldn't be a problem. I agree with you that she needs to be disconnected from Kylo completely, but if the franchise ever returns to those characters there really isn't anything holding her back now.

And I might even suggest using Luke's Force ghost as a regular/semi-regular part of her cast/story. I dislike the slow power creep of the Force ghosts, but it's happening and I think this could be a viable way to repair Luke's story while pointing Rey in a new, positive direction.

[godisawesome]

I almost stopped reading right there. My red flag for blatant HYPERBOLE alert was screaming in my ears.
Look, I get there are things in the sequel trilogy that aren't what everyone wanted. But a lot of that is 50yr olds screaming at clouds over expectation vs what was done.

Actually, as a teacher of a bunch of middle schoolers and high schoolers in the last few years, I think the 50 years olds are the ones generally defending the ST more consistently, especially when it comes to TLJ; it’s a collection of Boomers and Gen Xers who generally were much more satisfied by TLJ creeping away from being about a girl and a black guy and back towards sad white guys and hypocrisy.

There’s a reason you see guys like Jason Fry and Pablo Hidalgo getting their hackles raised by John Boyega voicing what it was like to be a young black man who successfully nailed the male lead role only to be punished for it in the next two movies, why the ST lost half its audience (and disproportionately in the categories of women, POC, and youth), and why it’s merchandise dropped hugely.

The ST is a trilogy trying to fix what the PT did wrong, but with an immensely arrogant, privileged, dysfunctional and downright toxic film in its heart that makes AOTC look like a mere, forgettable hiccup in comparison. And really, I’d argue TFA was a better film in terms of execution than the PT… but nothing in the PT was as cancerously screwed up as TLJ, which is why TROS continued TLJ’s free fall.

AOTC was the doldrums of the PT, yet did nothing to impede the merchandise continuing to dominate pretty much every form of entertainment, ROTS bounced back significantly afterwards, and LFL never stopped mining the era, characters, and conflict for yet more market domination. TLJ, in contrast, probably intentionally killed interest fans had in Finn, unintentionally killed most of the interest in Rey and Poe, and smothered everything else to try and tell a Luke Skywalker story that clearly appealed more to sad white gays going through mid life crises than anyone younger than 35, and but the time the trilogy wrapped with TROS, fully half the audience was gone, merchandise was dead, and even LFL was sick of the era (though likely more because the onyl character they cared about, Ben Solo, was dead.)

Nothing Lucas screwed up in the PT can compare to what Rian Johnson did with one film. Lucas screwed up with racial stereotypes appearing on non-human alien characters and badly directing an intentionally flawed and ultimately doomed and dark romance; Rian Johnson punished and denigrated a successful black male character while sentencing everyone else who was POC to token roles often relying on racist cliches, then created and glorified a toxic and abusive romance on the main character in a twisted, sexist way that forever screwed her up.

Portman got stuck with bad direction… but at least got a plot that went “the good man you love is gone and you’re horrified at the monster before you, so you back away” scene.

Ridley got stuck with “So this guy violated your mind under torture in a sexual assault metaphor, murdered your father figure to become more evil, then tortured and maimed your best friend, and now just denigrates and mocks you… and you can’t get enough of that sexy bad boy!”

The only way the PT’s intentionally doomed and deconstructive romance ranks below the ST’s poisonous bullshit is if you ignore basic human psychology or embrace an ugly sexist POV.

[WebLurker]

Pretty endless possibilities for expansion; where does Rey go with reviving the Force tradition? Does she train Finn like the LEGO short showed? What about First Order mop up? How does the New Republic fix itself after the war? How does Jannah's quest to find her family turn out? Do we meet other sympathetic First Order stormtroopers (like Finn and Jannah in the movies or Pilot in the Phasma comic) that could get a chance at freedom and/or redemption?

Lotta options.

[ChrisIII]

Poe would probably have a major role in the rebuilding of the Republic or transition the resistance to a government. A lot of his arc in TLJ and TROS was kind of building him up as the new resistance leader.

[KurtW95]

Recategorizing the sequels elseworld stories is the only way forward. Because further content is going to be tough to enjoy if it all leads to such destruction of the characters from the OT.

[thwhtGuardian]

Recategorizing the sequels elseworld stories is the only way forward. Because further content is going to be tough to enjoy if it all leads to such destruction of the characters from the OT.

You don't have to label it at all, that's just pointlessly reductive. If they have something that builds off of it and it's a good story, cool, if they have a story that has nothing to do with the sequels just don't mention them, also cool, either way things move on like nothing happened.

[KurtW95]

You don't have to label it at all, that's just pointlessly reductive. If they have something that builds off of it and it's a good story, cool, if they have a story that has nothing to do with the sequels just don't mention them, also cool, either way things move on like nothing happened.

You kind of do because a story becomes uninteresting if you know it leads to the destruction of a character. And not in way like it was supposed to be like telling the story of how Anakin became Vader. The sequel trilogy retconned the OT into the start of an awful failure and depressing lives where what our characters did never really mattered.