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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    It is not like Peter is a slacker in his parents basement, sitting on his ass playing with the Play Station or X Box. He will be out dealing with the Norman’s, Otto’s and Cletus’s of the world, which is not exactly easy.
    Doesn't mean much if he doesn't handle it efficiently. There's so much he could be doing better.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Doesn't mean much if he doesn't handle it efficiently. There's so much he could be doing better.
    Peter like the rest of us only has 24 hours in a day. If Marvel does not unnecessarily burden him down he can actually do more ( and a better job). But for some reason they enjoy making is life as difficult as possible ( Lowe even admitted that prior to Beyond).

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Peter like the rest of us only has 24 hours in a day. If Marvel does not unnecessarily burden him down he can actually do more ( and a better job). But for some reason they enjoy making is life as difficult as possible ( Lowe even admitted that prior to Beyond).
    Marvel thinks the quintessential Peter Parker is a broke loser who on one hand is a scientific genius who used chemicals a high school student could access to create web fluid - something even 3M with all its labs and PhDs and relatively unlimited resources can’t create - but on the other is at least canonically 28 years old (Spider-Man Vol. 4 #1: Peter says it was thirteen years since he was bitten by the spider at age 15) but has the emotional maturity of a teenager who was never properly socialized and grew up akin to locked in a bunker — no, strike that, Silk was actually locked in a bunker and yet, once Cindy got her own book and was out from underneath Slott, she has shown more maturity and ability to successfully navigate the modern world.

    And any time readers point out it breaks the suspension of disbelief that someone who has been Spider-Man for thirteen years and whose intellect is set at genius still can’t function as an adult in today’s world, we’re lectured “U juST WaNT HiS LiFe 2 B EEEEZZZZZ, U don’T unDERstAND hoW STorieS WUrk.”

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    Marvel thinks the quintessential Peter Parker is a broke loser who on one hand is a scientific genius who used chemicals a high school student could access to create web fluid - something even 3M with all its labs and PhDs and relatively unlimited resources can’t create - but on the other is at least canonically 28 years old (Spider-Man Vol. 4 #1: Peter says it was thirteen years since he was bitten by the spider at age 15) but has the emotional maturity of a teenager who was never properly socialized and grew up akin to locked in a bunker — no, strike that, Silk was actually locked in a bunker and yet, once Cindy got her own book and was out from underneath Slott, she has shown more maturity and ability to successfully navigate the modern world.

    And any time readers point out it breaks the suspension of disbelief that someone who has been Spider-Man for thirteen years and whose intellect is set at genius still can’t function as an adult in today’s world, we’re lectured “U juST WaNT HiS LiFe 2 B EEEEZZZZZ, U don’T unDERstAND hoW STorieS WUrk.”
    I understand that, except for the fact the this only applies to Amazing and not in AU stories, so obviously Marvel is aware that “Pathetic Parker” is not necessarily the best version of Peter ( I actually think it is the worst ( but that is my opinion)). Basically I am tired of “Pathetic Parker” and the OMD “900 Pound Gorilla” on his back, just like I am tired of Peter in HS in the cartoons ( and will not watch one second of them).

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I understand that, except for the fact the this only applies to Amazing and not in AU stories, so obviously Marvel is aware that “Pathetic Parker” is not necessarily the best version of Peter ( I actually think it is the worst ( but that is my opinion)). Basically I am tired of “Pathetic Parker” and the OMD “900 Pound Gorilla” on his back, just like I am tired of Peter in HS in the cartoons ( and will not watch one second of them).
    Agree it’s tiresome.

    I think the issue, IMO, is current Marvel appears to fundamentally misunderstand Parker luck.

    For a really obscure example, in Web #6 the Beyonder turns a building to gold. Spidey takes a gold notebook because he’s broke and he can fence it to pay his rent. BUT! Nathan Lubensky can’t pay his hospital bills. So Peter sells the notebook in Web #15 and uses the proceeds to pay them off.

    This isn’t the best example, just the first one that came to mind, because Peter takes something that doesn’t technically belong to him - although it’s a victimless crime - but it shows how Peter isn’t inherently a loser because he’s an immature doofus, but instead he actively chooses to forego making his life easier by doing good for others.

    Another example is Peter marries MJ, whose modeling career just started to take off and so thanks to her income they can afford a fancy condo. BUT! MJ is being stalked by an admirer who won’t take no for an answer, and even after MJ escapes (and helps save Spider-Man’s life) and the admirer is put in jail, the admirer pulls strings and ruins MJ’s career — leaving the Parkers broke.

    This is an example where it’s not so much Parker luck - Peter and MJ are acted on instead of active - but neither do they lose their home and have to move in with Aunt May because they are immature doofuses. (On a side note, let’s point out how “MJ iS a SUperMOdeL whO mAKeS LifE EEEEEZZZZZ 4 peTeR” has stuck as “unchangeable canon” even though this story was designed to take that status away from her/them and return her to struggling as well).

    So your lottery story could very well work as a fun change in status. Aunt May moves into a lovely senior community, Peter is able to part time work at his science passion while also spending more time and resources on Spider-Man (which does away with the potentially character breaking stories of accepting Norman Osborn’s tech or Ock’s corporation).

    BUT! Aunt May’s senior community is really a front for a supervillain’s nefarious plan. In saving Aunt May and stopping the supervillain, Spidey destroys the senior community. So Peter decides to take all the lottery winnings and rebuild the community while paying for the residents’ medical bills, sending Peter back to his “broke” status - but again, it’s because he chooses to give up his money and actively do good, not because he’s an immature doofus (unlike the Parker Industries arc).

    On topic: As much I think ASM #400 is a Spider-Man classic and one of the best single issues ever published, I vote for keeping May alive for now.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 05-23-2022 at 08:52 AM.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Peter like the rest of us only has 24 hours in a day. If Marvel does not unnecessarily burden him down he can actually do more ( and a better job). But for some reason they enjoy making is life as difficult as possible ( Lowe even admitted that prior to Beyond).
    That’s because all of his friends are either evil or useless which another reason why their handling of Harry and Ben annoys me.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    .
    Harry Osborn was effed the moment writers made the mistake of pairing him with Mary Jane Watson. If you are side character who is related to a villain and dating a love interest to the main protagonist you have no choice but to be evil, crazy, and/or dead. Doesn't matter if you break up, future writers will remember.
    Ben Reilly is a clone and writers hate them.

  8. #203
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    I think it could still work to reinstate her ASM 400 death, by having her sent back in time whenever the current writer decides to "die" after waking from her coma. Of course this is not the grounded realistic Spider-Man tone the books should strive for, but De Matteis' writing is strong enough that it should never have been undone. I could even see her knowing his identity all along being a leftover effect of finding out in JMS run if they went this route, even though that was 'later' in the timeline.

    The problem with making her an actress Norman hired to die is- how would Peter not know it's not his aunt? And, of course, why would any actress willingly DIE playing a role? One of those so stupid in that it undoes a beautiful story, that it's the thing i resent Harras for most.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    That’s because all of his friends are either evil or useless which another reason why their handling of Harry and Ben annoys me.
    Yeah, that's weird, seemingly no matter how many friends he has, Pete does the work.
    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil1 View Post
    I think it could still work to reinstate her ASM 400 death, by having her sent back in time whenever the current writer decides to "die" after waking from her coma. Of course this is not the grounded realistic Spider-Man tone the books should strive for, but De Matteis' writing is strong enough that it should never have been undone. I could even see her knowing his identity all along being a leftover effect of finding out in JMS run if they went this route, even though that was 'later' in the timeline.

    The problem with making her an actress Norman hired to die is- how would Peter not know it's not his aunt? And, of course, why would any actress willingly DIE playing a role? One of those so stupid in that it undoes a beautiful story, that it's the thing i resent Harras for most.
    For me the big thing.... is a simple question: If Pete had asked Aunt May for permission before making the deal, what would she have told him?

    My best guess.... is she'd have told him "--- no, stop thinking about it!"

    I think she'd have hated the idea of getting brought back like that.
    Last edited by marhawkman; 05-24-2022 at 03:29 AM.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    For me the big thing.... is a simple question: If Pete had asked Aunt May for permission before making the deal, what would she have told him?

    My best guess.... is she'd have told him "--- no, stop thinking about it!"

    I think she'd have hated the idea of getting brought back like that.
    I've seen a lot of people use this argument and to me it doesn't make a lick of sense.

    If a hero is trying to save somebody and the person goes "Don't worry about me, save yourself," you don't expect the hero to listen to them. Spider-man is going to try to save somebody whether the person tell him it's a good idea or not.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I've seen a lot of people use this argument and to me it doesn't make a lick of sense.

    If a hero is trying to save somebody and the person goes "Don't worry about me, save yourself," you don't expect the hero to listen to them. Spider-man is going to try to save somebody whether the person tell him it's a good idea or not.
    Why was Dr. Doom, whose primary motivation is to one-up Reed Richards to the point that he actually delivered Reed and Sue's daughter after being informed that Reed couldn't, unable to do anything in OMD?

    The entire situation was completely and utterly forced.
    Last edited by Kevinroc; 05-24-2022 at 06:36 AM.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I've seen a lot of people use this argument and to me it doesn't make a lick of sense.

    If a hero is trying to save somebody and the person goes "Don't worry about me, save yourself," you don't expect the hero to listen to them. Spider-man is going to try to save somebody whether the person tell him it's a good idea or not.
    That’s taking away May’s agency over her own life, however. In real life, if someone doesn’t want heroic measures to prolong their life and has made their wishes known via an advance directive or DNR order, their wishes are followed.

    As it is, Peter saved May but at what cost to others? He fed Mephisto. He gave the Devil a victory. Who knows how many souls went on to be tortured because Peter strengthened Mephisto?

  13. #208
    Mighty Member Webhead's Avatar
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    Both May through a psychic link, and The One Above All (God himself!) told Peter to just let it go.

    That Peter still wants to save her is in character? There might be arguments for and against it. But making a Faustian bargain has consequences, moral and otherwise, whereas this particular deal is written in-universe as a minor nuisance; what's more, the new reality created by a demon is actually the best one (per Marvel editorial).

    And yeah, I suppose this means that, if OMD was the first act of a larger storyline, it could be a classic Spider-Man story about actions, consequences, and responsibility.

    The actress thing was too dumb but unfortunately too convoluted to retcon as well.
    Last edited by Webhead; 05-24-2022 at 09:46 AM.

  14. #209
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    Agree it’s tiresome.

    I think the issue, IMO, is current Marvel appears to fundamentally misunderstand Parker luck.

    For a really obscure example, in Web #6 the Beyonder turns a building to gold. Spidey takes a gold notebook because he’s broke and he can fence it to pay his rent. BUT! Nathan Lubensky can’t pay his hospital bills. So Peter sells the notebook in Web #15 and uses the proceeds to pay them off.

    This isn’t the best example, just the first one that came to mind, because Peter takes something that doesn’t technically belong to him - although it’s a victimless crime - but it shows how Peter isn’t inherently a loser because he’s an immature doofus, but instead he actively chooses to forego making his life easier by doing good for others.

    Another example is Peter marries MJ, whose modeling career just started to take off and so thanks to her income they can afford a fancy condo. BUT! MJ is being stalked by an admirer who won’t take no for an answer, and even after MJ escapes (and helps save Spider-Man’s life) and the admirer is put in jail, the admirer pulls strings and ruins MJ’s career — leaving the Parkers broke.

    This is an example where it’s not so much Parker luck - Peter and MJ are acted on instead of active - but neither do they lose their home and have to move in with Aunt May because they are immature doofuses. (On a side note, let’s point out how “MJ iS a SUperMOdeL whO mAKeS LifE EEEEEZZZZZ 4 peTeR” has stuck as “unchangeable canon” even though this story was designed to take that status away from her/them and return her to struggling as well).

    So your lottery story could very well work as a fun change in status. Aunt May moves into a lovely senior community, Peter is able to part time work at his science passion while also spending more time and resources on Spider-Man (which does away with the potentially character breaking stories of accepting Norman Osborn’s tech or Ock’s corporation).

    BUT! Aunt May’s senior community is really a front for a supervillain’s nefarious plan. In saving Aunt May and stopping the supervillain, Spidey destroys the senior community. So Peter decides to take all the lottery winnings and rebuild the community while paying for the residents’ medical bills, sending Peter back to his “broke” status - but again, it’s because he chooses to give up his money and actively do good, not because he’s an immature doofus (unlike the Parker Industries arc).

    On topic: As much I think ASM #400 is a Spider-Man classic and one of the best single issues ever published, I vote for keeping May alive for now.
    I like your idea. It works a lot better than just making him an immature screwup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Webhead View Post
    Both May through a psychic link, and The One Above All (God himself!) told Peter to just let it go.

    That Peter still wants to save her is in character? There might be arguments for and against it. But making a Faustian bargain has consequences, moral and otherwise, whereas this particular deal is written in-universe as a minor nuisance; what's more, the new reality created by a demon is actually the best one (per Marvel editorial).

    And yeah, I suppose this means that, if OMD was the first act of a larger storyline, it could be a classic Spider-Man story about actions, consequences, and responsibility.

    The actress thing was too dumb but unfortunately too convoluted to retcon as well.
    That would definitely be something.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    That’s taking away May’s agency over her own life, however. In real life, if someone doesn’t want heroic measures to prolong their life and has made their wishes known via an advance directive or DNR order, their wishes are followed.
    That’s literally what superheroes do. Real world be damned.

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