Page 6 of 28 FirstFirst ... 234567891016 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 415
  1. #76
    Spectacular Member Kanos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    239

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Mephisto wasn't interested in Mayday, he was interested in the second child Peter and MJ would have had if they had remained married. That daughter is implied to be the one that will defeat him in the future, which is elaborated on in the closing pages of Spencer's run

    Norman would have been just as interested in May's corpse as he would have been with her alive, given she has Peter's unique DNA, living or dead. Remember, Norman ordered Mayday to be cloned at an infant age in the Spider-Girl timeline.
    The fact that the baby was stillborn doesn't change the fact that it's weird not to mention it. Also, the dialogue with Kurt in Hunted hints that Peter never had children and doesn't know what it's like to lose a child, so he tried to stop Kurt. The same can be said for Peter's monologue in ASM #60. The story itself does not say anything about what kind of child it is. I'm pretty sure it's Mayday and not Annie because she had a Ben costume and canon hair, the only difference is her red hair, but 616 and MC2 are different in some places (the real May died in ASM #400) so it's nothing strange. If Norman had kidnapped the dead child of Peter and MJ, then "good Norman" would have told them about it, but this did not happen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercwmouth12 View Post
    Well it could be retconned that the baby is actually alive, by Mysterio or some other way but it's because May would be the one to finally defeat him and end his reign forever
    Mysterio works for Mephisto, he has no reason to save Peter's daughter. At this point, it looks like Peter and MJ erased their daughter from the timeline, it was Mephisto's plan because Mayday (since the girl in ASM #74 was in a Ben costume with Mayday hair) would end his reign.
    Last edited by Kanos; 02-24-2022 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,563

    Default

    The child in One More Day wasn't the Clone Saga baby. The One More Day child hadn't been born.

  3. #78
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    4,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanos View Post
    If Norman had kidnapped the dead child of Peter and MJ, then "good Norman" would have told them about it, but this did not happe
    Why would Norman tell them he had their dead child? Wouldn't it mean more to them if he told them she was alive and hidden away? The only thing he gains from telling Peter and MJ he has their child's corpse is to make them even more miserable, and right now he's far too remorseful for that.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Mercwmouth12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    2,868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Why would Norman tell them he had their dead child? Wouldn't it mean more to them if he told them she was alive and hidden away? The only thing he gains from telling Peter and MJ he has their child's corpse is to make them even more miserable, and right now he's far too remorseful for that.
    Unless he did take the child away and remembered that he took it and is trying to make amends

  5. #80
    Spectacular Member Kanos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    239

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    The child in One More Day wasn't the Clone Saga baby. The One More Day child hadn't been born.
    I am aware of this, you may have misunderstood my comment due to google translation (I don't know English).

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Why would Norman tell them he had their dead child? Wouldn't it mean more to them if he told them she was alive and hidden away? The only thing he gains from telling Peter and MJ he has their child's corpse is to make them even more miserable, and right now he's far too remorseful for that.
    Since he has become good, it makes no sense for him to keep this secret. But he didn't say it because the baby wasn't born and Norman didn't kidnap him. I don't want this, but these are the facts, we have these stories (bad stories) that confirm that MJ was not pregnant in the altered timeline. This may change in the future, but not now.

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Was it 'ageist/sexist' for No Way Home or the recent video game to kill her off?



    The lead up to ASM 400 is when the Clone Saga was firing on all cylinders and was selling fairly big at the time. I will give you the aftermath leaves somewhat of a muddled aftertaste, but I'm of the opinion the saga wasn't as bad as the historians claim it to be. ASM 400 also remains canon to the Spider-Girl comics, and towards the end of that run May's Clone Saga passing actually enhances her character as she later returns in spirit form to help her family put away Norman Osborn once and for all.

    I do believe it would be more spectacularly tragic if the May Peter sacrificed his marriage for was a clone or a LMD, and that her passing in ASM 400 was reintegrated into continuity, and also that Mephisto knew of that development and that factored further into his scheming.

    However, I would like to see May continue on, but only if she has knowledge of Peter's identity and if she can become a great Aunt at some point.
    Adaptations have their own requirements. The video game and film are going to have less stories than the comics. In No Way Home, spoilers:
    it made sense for May to die to give Spidey the "with great power must come great responsibility" moment. It also fit the idea that no one remembers Peter Parker.
    end of spoilers

    I read the Clone Saga and enjoyed some of it, but there is a lot of garbage and it's a shame that a pivotal issue is so connected to all of it. It'd be like if Kangaroo showed up in The Night Gwen Stacy Died, and they also had cliffhangers involving Aunt May's relationship with Dr Octopus.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  7. #82
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Adaptations have their own requirements. The video game and film are going to have less stories than the comics. In No Way Home, spoilers:
    it made sense for May to die to give Spidey the "with great power must come great responsibility" moment. It also fit the idea that no one remembers Peter Parker.
    end of spoilers

    I read the Clone Saga and enjoyed some of it, but there is a lot of garbage and it's a shame that a pivotal issue is so connected to all of it. It'd be like if Kangaroo showed up in The Night Gwen Stacy Died, and they also had cliffhangers involving Aunt May's relationship with Dr Octopus.
    Yeah, while I DO like issue 400 (the Peter and May stuff is really strong, and heartbreaking) I hate that it ends with Peter arrested, not giving us or Peter a chance to even grieve before setting up the next big multi-part story, "the Trial of Peter Parker." Had it been it's own story and not shoehorned into the middle of the Clone Saga it might even be seen as a classic along side "the Kid who Collected Spider-man."

    The gimmick tombstone cover is just absolutely awful though.

    Film and video game adaptations are completely different beasts from an ongoing monthly comic, they take much longer to produce and while they might continue to put out Spider-man films and games it won't be always be in the same continuity with the same actors. The current Spidey games are not in continuity with "Enter: Electro" or "Web of Shadows." Killing off Aunt May in these mediums has less lasting results.
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  8. #83
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    4,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Yeah, while I DO like issue 400 (the Peter and May stuff is really strong, and heartbreaking) I hate that it ends with Peter arrested, not giving us or Peter a chance to even grieve before setting up the next big multi-part story, "the Trial of Peter Parker." Had it been it's own story and not shoehorned into the middle of the Clone Saga it might even be seen as a classic along side "the Kid who Collected Spider-man..
    It is seen as a classic though, it doesn't matter if it's a part of an ongoing serial, it's quality sets it above that. It's just the same as Turn Left or Heaven Sent being highly regarded as some of the best episodes of 21st century Doctor Who, even though both don't have conclusive endings and lead into other episodes.

  9. #84
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    It is seen as a classic though, it doesn't matter if it's a part of an ongoing serial, it's quality sets it above that. It's just the same as Turn Left or Heaven Sent being highly regarded as some of the best episodes of 21st century Doctor Who, even though both don't have conclusive endings and lead into other episodes.
    I guess, I mean the disdain for the infamously bad Clone Saga seems to far outshine the love for 400 (imo.) "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" and "Spider-man: No More" are recognized by title alone, where as ASM 400 is usually just called ASM 400. What even is the title? The cover says "A Death in the Family" but that just reminds me of the far more iconic Batman story than Spidey. But I guess it's technically called "the Gift?"
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    It is seen as a classic though, it doesn't matter if it's a part of an ongoing serial, it's quality sets it above that. It's just the same as Turn Left or Heaven Sent being highly regarded as some of the best episodes of 21st century Doctor Who, even though both don't have conclusive endings and lead into other episodes.
    The rest of the story is pretty good. That makes a difference.

    Those episodes are good because of what they say about the character rather than featuring a pivotal change to the status quo.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  11. #86
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    I guess, I mean the disdain for the infamously bad Clone Saga seems to far outshine the love for 400 (imo.) "The Night Gwen Stacy Died" and "Spider-man: No More" are recognized by title alone, where as ASM 400 is usually just called ASM 400. What even is the title? The cover says "A Death in the Family" but that just reminds me of the far more iconic Batman story than Spidey. But I guess it's technically called "the Gift?"
    To be fair, I've seen it listed as "The Gift." It seems reasonably well-known.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  12. #87
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    4,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The rest of the story is pretty good. That makes a difference.
    Very true, it's a quality story first that says a lot about Peter and May's relationship and gives Ben some angst too. It's also very easy to separate it from all the Clone Saga goings on with a quick edit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Those episodes are good because of what they say about the character rather than featuring a pivotal change to the status quo.
    In Heaven Sent's case, it ends with The Doctor returning to Gallifrey and sets up the finale which did change the status quo, permanently writing out Clara Oswald
    Last edited by Matt Rat; 02-26-2022 at 01:56 PM.

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    18,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Very true, it's a quality story first that says a lot about Peter and May's relationship and gives Ben some angst too. It's also very easy to separate it from all the Clone Saga goings on with a quick edit.



    In Heaven Sent's case, it ends with The Doctor returning to Gallifrey and sets up the finale which did change the status quo, permanently writing out Clara Oswald
    My point was that the Doctor Who stories that followed Turn Left and Heaven Sent were pretty good. That's not quite the case with The Mark of Kaine or the Trial of Peter Parker.

    The departure of a companion in Doctor Who isn't quite compatible with the death of Aunt May, because it's normal in the series for companions to depart. Two and a half seasons/ series as with Clara was unusually long. A comparison might be an episode that destroys the Tardis, or blows up Gallifrey.

    To be sure, if the Trial of Peter Parker was a really well-regarded story, it would have been better for ASM 400.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 02-26-2022 at 05:29 PM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  14. #89
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    238

    Default

    Spider Man will kill you first OP.

  15. #90
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    California
    Posts
    13,242

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    My point was that the Doctor Who stories that followed Turn Left and Heaven Sent were pretty good. That's not quite the case with The Mark of Kaine or the Trial of Peter Parker.

    The departure of a companion in Doctor Who isn't quite compatible with the death of Aunt May, because it's normal in the series for companions to depart. Two and a half seasons/ series as with Clara was unusually long. A comparison might be an episode that destroys the Tardis, or blows up Gallifrey.

    To be sure, if the Trial of Peter Parker was a really well-regarded story, it would have been better for ASM 400.
    Nobody talks about how The Night Gwen Stacy Died had a follow-up where Peter meets Luke Cage. (Not that it was a bad story or anything, but it's not really discussed at all.)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •