Should Aunt May die for good?

[MajorHoy]

You know there are people in this thread who posted in other threads that they should separate MCU MJ (who is called "MJ" almost exclusively and even had her surname retconned as "Watson" so she could be referred to as "MJ Watson") from the character of Mary Jane because of the movies. And now when the movies (and video games) do something like kill Aunt May, they act like doing such a thing would be a sacrilege.

Makes no sense to me.

What makes no sense to you: that the movies can be different from the comic books?

Would you expect a movie based on a famous novel to be a page-by-page / word-for-word exact copy of the novel?

[Kevinroc]

I'm sure some people think it was a good decision.

I'm also confident that most people would prefer that a once in a lifetime DC vs Marvel story featured Spider-Man, rather than Spider-Man's clone.

And the Thor in Infinity Gauntlet (you know, the basis for the MCU's entire meta arc around Thanos) was the Eric Masterson Thor (and this was acknowledged in the story itself). Like I said, these things happen.

By the time Marvel vs. DC was published, Spider-Man had already crossed over with Superman and Batman.

[Kevinroc]

What makes no sense to you: that the movies can be different from the comic books?

Would you expect a movie based on a famous novel to be a page-by-page / word-for-word exact copy of the novel?

I'm saying arguing to make the comics more like the movies (such as bringing in Zendaya's MJ into the comics and making her a separate character from the comic book Mary Jane) and less like the movies (not killing Aunt May) at the same time is very strange to me.

[Lee]

And the Thor in Infinity Gauntlet (you know, the basis for the MCU's entire meta arc around Thanos) was the Eric Masterson Thor (and this was acknowledged in the story itself). Like I said, these things happen.

By the time Marvel vs. DC was published, Spider-Man had already crossed over with Superman and Batman.

The non-standard version of Thor makes Infinity Gauntlet less timeless, less stand-alone, more confusing for newer generations of readers. If Marvel had known it was going to remain in print for decades, they might have done a few things differently.

But Marvel can make a new crossover story whenever they want. DC Versus Marvel was a once in a lifetime story. Every other Marvel/DC crossover was smaller in scope and didn't have the hook of a "versus" with definitive winners and losers.

It was an error in judgement to use Ben Reilly. That depiction of Spider-Man was out of date just a couple of months after the TPB release. The continuity didn't even synch up in the end, since Ben was Spider-Man, but still had brown hair. He also told the DC characters that his "professional name" was Peter Parker. It was an awkward half-measure and it would have been easier to just say the story took place before Ben Reilly became Spider-Man.

I'm saying arguing to make the comics more like the movies (such as bringing in Zendaya's MJ into the comics and making her a separate character from the comic book Mary Jane) and less like the movies (not killing Aunt May) at the same time is very strange to me.

One adds to the supporting cast, the other subtracts.

[Matt Rat]

Keep in mind that DC have tried adding Chole Sullivan from Smallville to the Superman comics and that fizzled out. The same applied to Arrow's Felicity to the New 52 Green Arrow comics, she didn't last long either.

Peter's supporting cast in itself isn't that wide nowadays. It very often always folds back to just him, Mary Jane, Felicia, May, Jameson. It's nothing like it was in the 60s through to the 90s.

JMS' Spider-Man run is revered, but it largely focuses on just Peter, MJ and May.

[Kevinroc]

The non-standard version of Thor makes Infinity Gauntlet less timeless, less stand-alone, more confusing for newer generations of readers. If Marvel had known it was going to remain in print for decades, they might have done a few things differently.

But Marvel can make a new crossover story whenever they want. DC Versus Marvel was a once in a lifetime story. Every other Marvel/DC crossover was smaller in scope and didn't have the hook of a "versus" with definitive winners and losers.

It was an error in judgement to use Ben Reilly. That depiction of Spider-Man was out of date just a couple of months after the TPB release. The continuity didn't even synch up in the end, since Ben was Spider-Man, but still had brown hair. He also told the DC characters that his "professional name" was Peter Parker. It was an awkward half-measure and it would have been easier to just say the story took place before Ben Reilly became Spider-Man.

And it was Jim Rhodes in the Iron Man armor during the original Secret Wars (one of the first major comic events).

Are you saying JLA/Avengers, the last major Marvel/DC crossover, which prominently featured Kyle Rayner and Wally West as Green Lantern and The Flash was also a mistake? (And yes, I know time shenanigans bring Hal and Barry to prominence later, but it doesn't change the fact that Kyle and Wally are so prominent early in the crossover.)

One adds to the supporting cast, the other subtracts.

It subtracts from the movie's intention of presenting Zendaya's MJ as the MCU version of Mary Jane Watson, to the point that Peter actually refers to her as "MJ Watson" at one point, and characters from another universe treat her as the MCU's version of the MJ that they know. Spinning her off into her own character suddenly means she isn't a version of a character created by Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and John Romita Sr. She's just... a movie only character who would get sidelined like so many others before her. And it sends a terrible message that "THE REAL MJ" can only be white.

In a discussion about synergy, asking if Aunt May should die is a perfectly valid question.

[Lee]

And it was Jim Rhodes in the Iron Man armor during the original Secret Wars (one of the first major comic events).

It's the same thing. Jim Rhodes as Iron Man made Secret Wars less timeless and diminished the core premise of the series, which was to have all of Marvel's biggest heroes in one story.

Are you saying JLA/Avengers, the last major Marvel/DC crossover, which prominently featured Kyle Rayner and Wally West as Green Lantern and The Flash was also a mistake? (And yes, I know time shenanigans bring Hal and Barry to prominence later, but it doesn't change the fact that Kyle and Wally are so prominent early in the crossover.)

Kurt Busiek wanted to have more of Hal and Barry in JLA/Avengers. DC didn't, and limited their presence in the story.

http://www.dcinthe80s.com/2016/07/ch...busiek-at.html

It was the wrong decision.

Wally West Flash and Kyle Rayner Green Lantern were long-standing JLA members though, so they still fit the premise of the story.

Jim Rhodes as Iron Man, Ben Reilly as Spider-Man, Smart Hulk, Thor in that Deodato costume that he wore for just one issue of his series, they were flash in the pan. Blips.

It subtracts from the movie's intention of presenting Zendaya's MJ as the MCU version of Mary Jane Watson

I disagree. It doesn't impact the movies at all. They're separate works.

[Mister Mets]

It's part of the business of serialized super hero comics. The Dark Phoenix saga happened while Beast was a member of The Avengers. Trying to say a story is lesser because it continues into another story feels like a weird point when Marvel is built on such things.

It's different to reference good comics, rather than bad comics. Beast was in some good comics as an Avenger. Englehart's run is well-regarded, and he's also in three of the best regarded bronze age Avengers stories: the showdown with Nefaria, the team up with Warlock against Thanos, and the Korvac saga. The Dark Phoenix saga isn't tainted by the connection.

I suppose the solution is for publishers to not take shortcuts with quality. Obviously, Marvel can't guarantee that a comic or run will be good. Sometimes the creative team will swing and miss. But artistic compromises can have consequences decades later.

It's also worth noting that the Dark Phoenix saga went out of its way to bring the Beast back on the side of the X-Men for a pivotal story.

The non-standard version of Thor makes Infinity Gauntlet less timeless, less stand-alone, more confusing for newer generations of readers. If Marvel had known it was going to remain in print for decades, they might have done a few things differently.

But Marvel can make a new crossover story whenever they want. DC Versus Marvel was a once in a lifetime story. Every other Marvel/DC crossover was smaller in scope and didn't have the hook of a "versus" with definitive winners and losers.

It was an error in judgement to use Ben Reilly. That depiction of Spider-Man was out of date just a couple of months after the TPB release. The continuity didn't even synch up in the end, since Ben was Spider-Man, but still had brown hair. He also told the DC characters that his "professional name" was Peter Parker. It was an awkward half-measure and it would have been easier to just say the story took place before Ben Reilly became Spider-Man.



One adds to the supporting cast, the other subtracts.

I agree with this.

To be fair, Spider-Boy and Spider-Boy Team Up were fun.

[Kevinroc]

It's the same thing. Jim Rhodes as Iron Man made Secret Wars less timeless and diminished the core premise of the series, which was to have all of Marvel's biggest heroes in one story.

In-continuity events are always going to reflect the events of the books being published during that period of time.

Kurt Busiek wanted to have more of Hal and Barry in JLA/Avengers. DC didn't, and limited their presence in the story.

http://www.dcinthe80s.com/2016/07/ch...busiek-at.html

It was the wrong decision.

Wally West Flash and Kyle Rayner Green Lantern were long-standing JLA members though, so they still fit the premise of the story.

Jim Rhodes as Iron Man, Ben Reilly as Spider-Man, Smart Hulk, Thor in that Deodato costume that he wore for just one issue of his series, they were flash in the pan. Blips.

I just answered this.

I disagree. It doesn't impact the movies at all. They're separate works.

So why argue for it at all then?

[Kevinroc]

It's different to reference good comics, rather than bad comics. Beast was in some good comics as an Avenger. Englehart's run is well-regarded, and he's also in three of the best regarded bronze age Avengers stories: the showdown with Nefaria, the team up with Warlock against Thanos, and the Korvac saga. The Dark Phoenix saga isn't tainted by the connection.

I suppose the solution is for publishers to not take shortcuts with quality. Obviously, Marvel can't guarantee that a comic or run will be good. Sometimes the creative team will swing and miss. But artistic compromises can have consequences decades later.

It's also worth noting that the Dark Phoenix saga went out of its way to bring the Beast back on the side of the X-Men for a pivotal story.

I do think this line of thinking is limiting to creators of the books who weren't truly involved with the big event comic. Should Tom DeFalco not have done the Eric Masterson Thor story because Jim Starlin had a big Thanos event in the works? Should Rhodey have not taken over as Iron Man because of Secret Wars?

As I said, in-continuity events are always going to reflect the events of the books being published during that period of time.

As for your distinction of "good stories" and "bad stories" mattering more on the subject, nobody sets out to make a bad comic.

[Lee]

I just answered this.

It wasn't a question.

So why argue for it at all then?

If a good idea or character is introduced in a Marvel movie, TV show, novel or video game, then Marvel should be open to using them in the comics. (When they are legally able to.)

[Kevinroc]

It wasn't a question.

What did I say that was untrue? In-continuity events are always going to reflect the events of the books being published during that period of time. If you want a "timeless classic", feel free to read an out of continuity story. Silver Surfer: Requiem is one of my favorite Surfer stories and it is not in continuity. Silver Surfer Parable is another of my favorite Surfer stories and it also is not in continuity.

If a good idea or character is introduced in a Marvel movie, TV show, novel or video game, then Marvel should be open to using them in the comics. (When they are legally able to.)

So you support the idea of killing Aunt May, right?

[Vegeta]

So you support the idea of killing Aunt May, right?

In the spirit of synergy the comic writers should probably erase all memory of Peter Parker from Mary Jane's mind as well and separate the two again. There's no guarantee Zendaya will sign on for another 3 movies anyways.

[Mercwmouth12]

In the spirit of synergy the comic writers should probably erase all memory of Peter Parker from Mary Jane's mind as well and separate the two again. There's no guarantee Zendaya will sign on for another 3 movies anyways.

Gonna stop you there as it's been said many times this is not something that will happen as it's been established the MJ from MCU is a variant and nothing like the comic book Mary Jane.

The synergy is that May has been killed off in multiple medias and also proven an effective method that Peter can grow without her in his life and can grow as a character

now go back to the planet vegeta before Feezia shows up

[PCN24454]

Gonna stop you there as it's been said many times this is not something that will happen as it's been established the MJ from MCU is a variant and nothing like the comic book Mary Jane.

The synergy is that May has been killed off in multiple medias and also proven an effective method that Peter can grow without her in his life and can grow as a character

now go back to the planet vegeta before Feezia shows up

That’s a great idea. He didn’t need a supporting cast to begin with.