Why is Batman the only major hero whose mental health is questioned so much?

[phantom1592]

Most of his villains aren't powerful enough to warrant some intricate plan in case of emergency, he can just one-shot most of them. Joker, Riddler, Two-Face, Penguin, etc aren't even really physical threats to him he has no reason to devise emergency ways of stopping them. Notice how he has plans to stop Superman but not Green Arrow, notice how he has plans to stop Wonder Woman but not Dick. Why in the world would he need contingency plans for normal humans most of whom he could beat up himself or stop with his regular tech?

Comparing him having contingency plans for the JL but not his largely normal human villains doesn't make any sense, it's like asking why use a rolled up newspaper on a fly when you own a rifle. They aren't powerful enough to warrant extreme tech and years of planning.

Because that hasn't been working.

He needs to spend less time developing super sonic vibrational bullets for the Flash.... Which fyi, he never breaks out when Reverse Flash is causing chaos... and start building a better Arkham. He has kryptonite to stop Superman.... but never around when Zod is... Stop trying to condemn Wonder Woman to some virtual reality hell, and stick Joker in it. Use that super brain to chess the hell out of them and put them in a trap and checkmate or something. Just look at how he's always counter-moving Lex Luthor, stopping him from gettting a foothold in his city... but the Falcones and the Penguins?? Not so much.

Any of his weak pathetic 'human' villains have killed hundreds more people than the heroes ever have... but he's not focusing on THEM.

[The True Detective]

Because that hasn't been working.

He needs to spend less time developing super sonic vibrational bullets for the Flash.... Which fyi, he never breaks out when Reverse Flash is causing chaos... and start building a better Arkham. He has kryptonite to stop Superman.... but never around when Zod is... Stop trying to condemn Wonder Woman to some virtual reality hell, and stick Joker in it. Use that super brain to chess the hell out of them and put them in a trap and checkmate or something. Just look at how he's always counter-moving Lex Luthor, stopping him from gettting a foothold in his city... but the Falcones and the Penguins?? Not so much.

Any of his weak pathetic 'human' villains have killed hundreds more people than the heroes ever have... but he's not focusing on THEM.

It's the same reason he doesn't let Superman toss Joker into the Phantom Zone, if all his villains are in an inescapable prison, then what? We need hero vs villain stories so they can't have him create tech that takes his villains out of the picture permanently, either that or he does create a prison they can't escape and for one reason or another they don't get caught since the status quo demands they keep coming back.

It hasn't been working to keep them in Arkham because of plot reasons, even if he did have his own Phantom Zone style prison the villains would find some way of getting out anyway. Also for all the talk of him not focusing on his villains what's stopping Superman from taking literally 3 seconds out of his day and hurling them all into the Phantom Zone? Yeah they aren't his "responsibility" but after hearing about Joker's millionth killing rampage shouldn't the other Leaguers' consciences bother them enough to put a stop to the likes of Joker once and for all? Shouldn't the state also take some blame since Batman hands them off to the authorities?

You're holding Batman to real world logic when none of the heroes really can be held to it if we want the status quo maintained. Flash can't use his superspeed to round up every crook on Earth because we need them. Superman can't give various police departments and militaries Fortress of Solitude tech because that would take them too far away from their real world counterpoints. Bruce's contingency plans aren't an everyday thing, he's constantly monitoring his villains OTOH, the plans for the heroes stickout more because of their rarity compared to him planning Joker's next escape from Arkham.

[phantom1592]

It's the same reason he doesn't let Superman toss Joker into the Phantom Zone, if all his villains are in an inescapable prison, then what? We need hero vs villain stories so they can't have him create tech that takes his villains out of the picture permanently, either that or he does create a prison they can't escape and for one reason or another they don't get caught since the status quo demands they keep coming back.

It hasn't been working to keep them in Arkham because of plot reasons, even if he did have his own Phantom Zone style prison the villains would find some way of getting out anyway. Also for all the talk of him not focusing on his villains what's stopping Superman from taking literally 3 seconds out of his day and hurling them all into the Phantom Zone? Yeah they aren't his "responsibility" but after hearing about Joker's millionth killing rampage shouldn't the other Leaguers' consciences bother them enough to put a stop to the likes of Joker once and for all? Shouldn't the state also take some blame since Batman hands them off to the authorities?

You're holding Batman to real world logic when none of the heroes really can be held to it if we want the status quo maintained. Flash can't use his superspeed to round up every crook on Earth because we need them. Superman can't give various police departments and militaries Fortress of Solitude tech because that would take them too far away from their real world counterpoints. Bruce's contingency plans aren't an everyday thing, he's constantly monitoring his villains OTOH, the plans for the heroes stickout more because of their rarity compared to him planning Joker's next escape from Arkham.

Yes, but the 'real-world' reasons why one story doesn't work.... is the same reason why story two shouldn't have been written. If you know you can't ever stop Joker or Two-face... then that's the baseline. That's where Batman lives. He shouldn't have super-science to kill Flash or mech suits to fight Darkseid. You can't have it both ways without breaking too much suspension of disbelief.

[bat39]

I have a feeling we're getting a little side-tracked from the main topic with this debate about Batman having contingency plans to take down his fellow heroes. Granted, even if I accept that this makes him an *******, a paranoic, amoral and/or borderline villanous, I don't think it makes him insane. And usually, when people talk about Batman being mentally disturbed, especially IRL, they don't bring up the ''Tower of Babel'' and OMAC stuff. Hell, Batman being mentally disturbed is a popular, borderline-mainstream idea now, and the majority of people who regurgitate it probably don't even know about Batman's contingencies to take out other heroes.

LOL!! Yeah, this is always my critique over the 'batgod' concept. With enough planning he can take out Superman, Flash, Green Lantern 'because he's BATMAN!!!!"....

But his VILLAINS?! Yeah, the Clown and the Luchador are relegated to 'Ummm Punch them and put them in a cell'.... and it doesn't work. Where are the Super secret plans using micro nanites when ClayFace shows up again... or Killer Croc? Or Solomon Grundy?

Gets even more annoying after Batman was so firmly on the 'no mind reprogram' side of Identity Crisis, when he has no problem with 'hypnotizing Green Lantern to be blind or Fear Toxining Aquaman... but Joker and Two-face seem to have the moral right to their own free will... Despite all the personality altering drugs teh Asylum gives them everyday... He would be FIRST in line for a magical mindwipe that stops psychopaths from causing harm.

Because that hasn't been working.

He needs to spend less time developing super sonic vibrational bullets for the Flash.... Which fyi, he never breaks out when Reverse Flash is causing chaos... and start building a better Arkham. He has kryptonite to stop Superman.... but never around when Zod is... Stop trying to condemn Wonder Woman to some virtual reality hell, and stick Joker in it. Use that super brain to chess the hell out of them and put them in a trap and checkmate or something. Just look at how he's always counter-moving Lex Luthor, stopping him from gettting a foothold in his city... but the Falcones and the Penguins?? Not so much.

Any of his weak pathetic 'human' villains have killed hundreds more people than the heroes ever have... but he's not focusing on THEM.

This ultimately plays into a larger issue of how there are virtually two version of Batman - the ''Gotham'' version for whom the likes of Joker and Penguin can be a challenge, and the ''Justice League'' version who's supposedly the most dangerous man on earth, can take down Superman, and is prepared to face off with Darkseid. That's a totally different debate from whether Batman is mentally unstable or not.

On the subject of the mind-wipes in ''Identity Crisis''...there is a huge difference between sending someone to a psychiatric facility to be treated for their mental illness and using a magical mindwipe to permanently alter their personalities against their will. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

Anyway, getting back on topic, the early reviews of The Batman are out and I must say I'm pleasantly surprised to see that none of the reviewers have really talked much about the idea of Bruce Wayne being mentally unstable or insane in the film. They call him emo or broody, but that's par for the course. It leads me to think that while Reeves and Pattison talked a lot about Bruce's mental health in interviews, the film itself isn't going to explicitly acknowledge that, but leave it open to interpretation.

[Agent Z]

Wonder Woman got flak from Batman and Superman for killing Maxwell Lord but fans were on her side. Bruce usually gets flak from other characters and fans.

Some Wonder Woman fans defended Diana killing Max. At least half of them hated her doing it and a lot of Superman and Batman fans lambasted her for it as well. And her being ripped apart for it in story is way more than Bruce ever got for Brother Eye.

Their moments are a little less frequent? Not imo, it's well documented how hostile the Batfamily can be towards Bruce constantly blaming him for any problem in their lives. Eventually they have to get over "Bruce wronged me!" but they never will because writers and fans are stuck on them putting Bruce in his place for every wrong he's ever committed against them. Dick fans are still mad at Bruce for backfisting him in the Court of Owls , Wonder Woman fans still hold onto her putting her foot on his head as a cathartic "win" for various reasons, Superman fans hold onto their anger of anytime Bruce has gotten one over on him.

The Batfamily are usually mad at Bruce for things he's actually done to them. With the exception of Jason and Damian, they don't take out their anger over Bruce's crap on other people. Jason and Damian also get the "just get over it" treatment plenty from fans and writers.

None of those fans want their favorites to move on, Wonder Woman fans aren't gonna roll their eyes if she acts aggressive towards Bruce they love when she "owns" him. But he's the one who needs to let his parents' death go and get on with his life. Everyone else can hold onto petty feelings and grudges especially if it's against Bruce but he always has to be the bigger person and move on.

If you want to talk about Bruce's right to be angry at people who have genuinely done him wrong, that's another conversation entirely. But you're saying that people shouldn't be angry at Bruce for the horrible stuff he's done to them. And that's ignoring that these guys do forgive Bruce and move on every time he wrongs them. Diana forgave him from getting several of her people killed for crying out loud.

[The True Detective]

Yes, but the 'real-world' reasons why one story doesn't work.... is the same reason why story two shouldn't have been written. If you know you can't ever stop Joker or Two-face... then that's the baseline. That's where Batman lives. He shouldn't have super-science to kill Flash or mech suits to fight Darkseid. You can't have it both ways without breaking too much suspension of disbelief.

Like bat39 said this specific discussion is kinda derailing the thread but my final input on this subject is that every hero has this problem. Flash can outrace death itself on one hand only to be consistently challenged by Captain Cold and other regular humans with tech. Superman can trade blows with Darkseid but give a bald billionaire a green rock and he's a huge threat to him. Spider-Man can casually solo multiple X-Men then have Kraven the Hunter give him major problems. That's just how it goes.

[phantom1592]

On the subject of the mind-wipes in ''Identity Crisis''...there is a huge difference between sending someone to a psychiatric facility to be treated for their mental illness and using a magical mindwipe to permanently alter their personalities against their will. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

Nope. Not really.

Anything from Lobotomies to those drugs that kill sex drive that they give pedophiles to whatever they give Schizophrenics to keep them stable... There isn't a 'real' difference between psychiatric treatment to 'alter' their personality for the good of themselves and society and magical mindwipes that change the personality.

And while there are a lot of people who would be against taking away of anyone's 'right to choose' and 'free will'.... Batman is NOT one of them. His parents were murdered in front of him because someone 'had the right to choose for themselves right and wrong'. If there was ever a magic button that said 'Killers stop killing people' He'd be the first to press it. Superman and Wonder Woman probably have a lot of faith that ANYONE has some good inside them and choose to become a better person..... Batman doesn't have that. He'd be all for whatever would stop Joker from gassing the next orphanage.

Except killing... because he still has SOME line

But yeah, whether Zatanna waves her hands or Arkham develops a new antipsychotic drug... It would make no difference to Batman.

[The True Detective]

Nope. Not really.

Anything from Lobotomies to those drugs that kill sex drive that they give pedophiles to whatever they give Schizophrenics to keep them stable... There isn't a 'real' difference between psychiatric treatment to 'alter' their personality for the good of themselves and society and magical mindwipes that change the personality.

And while there are a lot of people who would be against taking away of anyone's 'right to choose' and 'free will'.... Batman is NOT one of them. His parents were murdered in front of him because someone 'had the right to choose for themselves right and wrong'. If there was ever a magic button that said 'Killers stop killing people' He'd be the first to press it. Superman and Wonder Woman probably have a lot of faith that ANYONE has some good inside them and choose to become a better person..... Batman doesn't have that. He'd be all for whatever would stop Joker from gassing the next orphanage.

Except killing... because he still has SOME line

But yeah, whether Zatanna waves her hands or Arkham develops a new antipsychotic drug... It would make no difference to Batman.

Huh? The same Batman who gives Wayne Enterprises jobs to his villains and other criminals doesn't see the good in people, since when? He lets Harley Quinn of all people pal around with him and the Batfamily. You're applying your own thinking onto how he would act, he clearly sees a big difference between personality altering medication and mindwiping. It's one thing if you personally think he should or would not see the difference between the 2 but the fact is he does.