Why is Batman the only major hero whose mental health is questioned so much?

[The Kid]

I would note a genuine attempt at making a hero who suffers from mental illness would be Rorschach from Watchmen
Moore has even said he molded him slightly after Batman in a way (that's wrong as well mind you) but that was more in reaction to how popular the character has become and not what he originally intended. He has a stunted speech pattern, constantly rebuffs others, smells, and has no concept of social decorum and is unpleasant to be around

None of these things describe any character within DC at all mind you but Moore had the notion that anti social behavior was comparable to mental illness. That's transitioned to the fans who parrot similar drivel and it all trivializes what is actual mental illness and fictional fantasy posers
He remains shocked by Rorschach's popularity to this day

Bruce , Matt, or even Marc spector being anti social or being mean to the people in his life makes them at worst assholes not some mental patients. Its almost childish in how easily it can be dismantled

Bruce and other characters in DC have negative qualities that doesn't make them crazy when juxtaposed with the actions they undertake as superheroes
If it were true none would be able to function as individuals and have much more difficulty acting as heroes

Rorschach doesn't really have mental illness in the sense that he's diagnosed with bipolar or schizophrenia or anything. He's just someone who is very anti-social, rigid, and misogynistic due to trauma from being raised by his abusive prostitute mom manifesting in a very right wing personality. Honestly, Rorschach as a character was ahead of his time. He's never portrayed as someone who suffers from any genetic mental illness. He's just a total nut because of the way he was raised

[bat39]

I don't see a point of a Superhero narrative, at least a traditional one, where the hero is as bad or as messed up as the villains. Like, the DCU isn't The Boys.

Oh, I agree. That was my point. That said, I do believe that at least some versions of Batman possibly suffer from mental issues, mostly stemming from the unresolved childhood trauma. But I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that Batman is ''as crazy or evil as the villains''. What I do think is that unlike the villains and many other people in Gotham, he was able to rise above his trauma and not give into the abyss - instead channelizing his rage, anger and fear into positive channels. Which I think is pretty darn heroic - maybe as heroic, if not more, as risking your life every night to help complete strangers.

[JediBatman54]

Because Batman is seen as more "realistic" with not superpowers he risk his live every night to make justice in Gotham

[marhawkman]

Rorschach doesn't really have mental illness in the sense that he's diagnosed with bipolar or schizophrenia or anything. He's just someone who is very anti-social, rigid, and misogynistic due to trauma from being raised by his abusive prostitute mom manifesting in a very right wing personality. Honestly, Rorschach as a character was ahead of his time. He's never portrayed as someone who suffers from any genetic mental illness. He's just a total nut because of the way he was raised

Enh, he's not the only one, but it's a character trope not seen often. I think mainly because the backstory writing is a giant pile of ick.

[SiegePerilous02]

The Dark Knight Rises had Selina in a catsuit and she was never treated like she was crazy by anyone, Bale's Bruce wasn't the typical Batman either, he was easily one of the more sane portrayals. Yet he was still looked at as a weirdo because his costume, Selina wasn't. Dressing like a cat isn't anymore normal than dressing like a bat.

Like Agent Z said, by that point in the Nolan films the people of Gotham have gotten a bit more used to characters like Batman, the Joker and the Scarecrow. Even compared to them, Selina's persona isn't as garish. She is never once even referred to as "Catwoman". Nolan's Selina isn't trying to dress like a cat, her goggles flip up into psuedo cat ears as a cute "nod," but they're not deliberately meant to be cat ears. Meanwhile, Bale's Batman is saner than others, but he's still calling himself Batman and dressing up as a demonic creature and snarling like an animal. Vs. her, who isn't doing any of those things.

At a casual glance, he comes across as crazier than she does.

You keep bringing up there not being any other high profile heroes but that isn't true, Superman is arguably more famous than Batman is. Having your entire race destroyed, being raised human then told no wait, you're actually a superpowered alien from a dead planet and creating a fake persona to trick people even loved ones is not normal behavior. Superman writers don't go into his movies trying to show how off a person like that would be tho. Even in the more grounded MOS Zack Snyder didn't try to explore the concept of Clark not being all there mentally.

Yeah, but with the way post-Crisis writers started to erase the dichotomy between Clark Kent and Superman, Superman's neurotic tendencies are not what they once were. And this shift coincides with Batman getting darker and more intense. Pre-Crisis, Superman came across as being more off his rocker than Batman, but Frank Miller and John Byrne started to switch them. And both characters are a bit more boring because of it, IMO, because the novelty has worn off.

There is also the fact that in-universe, the average citizen isn't privy to Superman's mental state or even aware that he would have a double life. Batman is blatantly a masked mystery man hiding his identity from everyone. Along with his attitude, he comes across as crazier.

Speaking of characters mental states why is Bruce potentially being mentally ill treated in such a crass way? He's almost vilified for it. In this day and age where mental health is treated so importantly it's more than a little shocking that the idea that Bruce is crazy is talked about like it is. Let's say he does have some sort of deep rooted issues, why is there no sympathy for it? He's talked about like he's just a raving lunatic ******* who needs to be locked away from society with the key tossed into the Phantom Zone.

Because his potential mental instability doesn't pair well with his status as a rich white billionaire who acts like he is above the law and dishes out extreme violence and sometimes tortures people for information. And can turn on his supposed friends/allies on a dime. And depending on what is canon in any given week, he's a repeat offender.

It reminds me of how the media would treat celebrities with obvious mental health issues like Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston and Britney Spears like comical figures to be mocked and gawked at. The fans who think Bruce has issues treat him the same, there's no pity or hope he gets over any internal problems he has, only mockery. There's a coldness to it, we always hear how he should just get over witnessing his parents' violent death in front of him as a child. As if that's an easy thing to just move past.

Spears and Houston didn't do things that lead to an OMAC-type situation.

I think it also depends on what versions of Bruce we're talking about. Nolan, BTAS, B:TaTB, pre-Crisis, etc. get some leeway when their trauma is touched upon because they otherwise don't act like enormous pricks with a massive chip on their shoulder about it. Other superheroes have violent traumas in their pasts and don't act like he does under certain writers/continuities, so fans might just have less patience for it.

[Wat]

It is idiotic to make generalizations about the sanity or insanity of these loony losers because after all the writers almost always have to have their cake and eat it too so they both show these fags having mental issues that would make a psychiatrist wet himself to imagine psycho analysing them and yet they still are functional humans at the same time and can carry on despite it all just fine except when the shitty nite villain of the night comes after them and torments them till they suffer from a breakdown, get over it by sheer willpower or what have you after turning into a raving loon for a time and then repeat and rinse. To attempt even to cure or analyze a character like Rorschach or others is to have their madness invade you and ultimately you become just the same shitty smelly sociopath loser he is.... in DC cuz their madness is so infectious they turn those who come into their orbits into twisted versions of themselves. So in fact Dick should have turned out to be as troubled a teen as Jason running from home, eating from gutters and pissed on by hobos as their isn't much of a difference between both their backgrounds and both are a pair of scallywags in their own way. Yet Jason is demonified and Dick is somehow excused from having the same issues.

[The True Detective]

Like Agent Z said, by that point in the Nolan films the people of Gotham have gotten a bit more used to characters like Batman, the Joker and the Scarecrow. Even compared to them, Selina's persona isn't as garish. She is never once even referred to as "Catwoman". Nolan's Selina isn't trying to dress like a cat, her goggles flip up into psuedo cat ears as a cute "nod," but they're not deliberately meant to be cat ears. Meanwhile, Bale's Batman is saner than others, but he's still calling himself Batman and dressing up as a demonic creature and snarling like an animal. Vs. her, who isn't doing any of those things.

At a casual glance, he comes across as crazier than she does.



Yeah, but with the way post-Crisis writers started to erase the dichotomy between Clark Kent and Superman, Superman's neurotic tendencies are not what they once were. And this shift coincides with Batman getting darker and more intense. Pre-Crisis, Superman came across as being more off his rocker than Batman, but Frank Miller and John Byrne started to switch them. And both characters are a bit more boring because of it, IMO, because the novelty has worn off.

There is also the fact that in-universe, the average citizen isn't privy to Superman's mental state or even aware that he would have a double life. Batman is blatantly a masked mystery man hiding his identity from everyone. Along with his attitude, he comes across as crazier.



Because his potential mental instability doesn't pair well with his status as a rich white billionaire who acts like he is above the law and dishes out extreme violence and sometimes tortures people for information. And can turn on his supposed friends/allies on a dime. And depending on what is canon in any given week, he's a repeat offender.



Spears and Houston didn't do things that lead to an OMAC-type situation.

I think it also depends on what versions of Bruce we're talking about. Nolan, BTAS, B:TaTB, pre-Crisis, etc. get some leeway when their trauma is touched upon because they otherwise don't act like enormous pricks with a massive chip on their shoulder about it. Other superheroes have violent traumas in their pasts and don't act like he does under certain writers/continuities, so fans might just have less patience for it.

I don't think Bruce sits around giddily thinking up ways to kill his fellow heroes, not 1 person in this thread has answered why him keeping contingency plans is any stranger than real world armies doing the same for their allies. In some stories other JL members aren't even bothered by him having the plans, they just don't like that he didn't tell them about the plans or when they fall into the wrong hands making him look careless.

Britney and Whitney were still treated like circus freaks and were figures of mockery by the media and lots of fans. Britney is only now being seen in a more sympathetic light because mental health awareness is treated a lot more seriously than it was 15 years ago. You call him a prick for pretty much anything, he could punch someone trying to stab him and you'd complain about him acting like an *******. That's the fan reaction I'm talking about, instead of wondering why he acts the way he does you quickly jump to condemning his actions

It's the whole "just get over it" attitude I see displayed here that only ever gets alplies to him, other heroes are allowed to be petty, hold grudges, have a chip on their shoulders but never Bruce. If Nightwing, Robin, whoever wants to hold onto residual anger and resentment towards Bruce for any wrongdoing they're allowed to vent that frustration. No one tells them to move on and get on with their lives. Bruce carrying onto anger and resentment is a sign he's an emotionally stunted immature dick.

[OopsIdiditagain]

it's because trauma is a reoccurring theme in batman, the bat family, and his villains, so people dissect it a lot. it doesn't help that batman is one of the most popular superheroes

[marhawkman]

I don't think Bruce sits around giddily thinking up ways to kill his fellow heroes, not 1 person in this thread has answered why him keeping contingency plans is any stranger than real world armies doing the same for their allies. In some stories other JL members aren't even bothered by him having the plans, they just don't like that he didn't tell them about the plans or when they fall into the wrong hands making him look careless.

There's a big difference between having a backup plan as a concept you thought out in your head, and having a box of stuff ready to go as a way to execute a plan that could kill your friend. Yeah, it was the box of weapons made to kill the JL that was the real problem.

[bat39]

It is idiotic to make generalizations about the sanity or insanity of these loony losers because after all the writers almost always have to have their cake and eat it too so they both show these fags having mental issues that would make a psychiatrist wet himself to imagine psycho analysing them and yet they still are functional humans at the same time and can carry on despite it all just fine except when the shitty nite villain of the night comes after them and torments them till they suffer from a breakdown, get over it by sheer willpower or what have you after turning into a raving loon for a time and then repeat and rinse. To attempt even to cure or analyze a character like Rorschach or others is to have their madness invade you and ultimately you become just the same shitty smelly sociopath loser he is.... in DC cuz their madness is so infectious they turn those who come into their orbits into twisted versions of themselves. So in fact Dick should have turned out to be as troubled a teen as Jason running from home, eating from gutters and pissed on by hobos as their isn't much of a difference between both their backgrounds and both are a pair of scallywags in their own way. Yet Jason is demonified and Dick is somehow excused from having the same issues.

Yeah, the notion that Dick somehow turned into one of the most fundamentally decent people and greatest heroes/leaders in the DCU after being raised and mentored by Mr. Bruce ''As Crazy as his Villains and Freak in a Bat-costume'' Wayne is a ridiculous one.

I'm somewhat okay with the idea that Dick was a positive influence on Bruce, and having to be a mentor to a teenage protegee brought Bruce's humanity and compassion to the fore and kept him from sliding off a slippery slope. But then that means that Bruce is a better person all round for having mentored Dick and you can't claim that he's actually been crazy all along. Or claim that he keeps 'regressing' when Dick's gone, because that makes Dick (or any of the Robins really) into an emotional crutch for him.

There's a big difference between having a backup plan as a concept you thought out in your head, and having a box of stuff ready to go as a way to execute a plan that could kill your friend. Yeah, it was the box of weapons made to kill the JL that was the real problem.

Well, if we're talking about the ''Tower of Babel'' plans, then those plans were specifically designed not to kill the Justice League but to take them down non-lethally. Batman even comes up with a new version of kryptonite that wouldn't be lethal to Superman.

And obviously he came up with the weapons for real. This wasn't a thought experiment but a real live contingency plan for a situation which could realistically happen, and in fact had happened before. Batman even refers to the time a villain named Agameno(?) stole the Justice League's powers and went on a rampage (I believe an allusion to an actual Silver Age JLA story), as well as things like clones, alternate reality doppelgangers, body-snatchers, mind-control etc. which happen to JLA members fairly frequently.

Again, the League didn't have a problem with Batman having those plans and weapons. They had a problem with him not telling them he had these plans in place.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't think Bruce sits around giddily thinking up ways to kill his fellow heroes, not 1 person in this thread has answered why him keeping contingency plans is any stranger than real world armies doing the same for their allies. In some stories other JL members aren't even bothered by him having the plans, they just don't like that he didn't tell them about the plans or when they fall into the wrong hands making him look careless.

Thinking of ways to kill them giddily, no. But he has done it in canon more than once, indicating that he doesn't learn his lesson and rarely expresses remorse. Especially in the lead up to Infinite Crisis, where a lot of innocent people got killed due the Brother Eye/Omac situation getting out of control.

Whereas in the out of continuity Justice, his plans got hacked. He felt really guilty about his friends being hurt because of it, and the League didn't judge him because they found it sensible. Everyone acted maturely, and what do you know? Nobody calls Batman a jerk in that story.

Britney and Whitney were still treated like circus freaks and were figures of mockery by the media and lots of fans. Britney is only now being seen in a more sympathetic light because mental health awareness is treated a lot more seriously than it was 15 years ago. You call him a prick for pretty much anything, he could punch someone trying to stab him and you'd complain about him acting like an *******. That's the fan reaction I'm talking about, instead of wondering why he acts the way he does you quickly jump to condemning his actions

Nice hyperbole. This is why it's kind of hard to take your arguments seriously.

It's the whole "just get over it" attitude I see displayed here that only ever gets alplies to him, other heroes are allowed to be petty, hold grudges, have a chip on their shoulders but never Bruce. If Nightwing, Robin, whoever wants to hold onto residual anger and resentment towards Bruce for any wrongdoing they're allowed to vent that frustration. No one tells them to move on and get on with their lives. Bruce carrying onto anger and resentment is a sign he's an emotionally stunted immature dick.

It's because they have their petty, jerkish moments with a little less frequency. And don't have stuff like War Games and Infinite Crisis on their resumes.

His holier than thou attitude towards Wonder Woman when she killed Maxwell Lord and surrendered herself to the Hague rubs people the wrong way when his Brother Eye plan lead to the deaths of many Amazons and he never so much as apologized or faced any consequences for it.

And the problem with stuff like this is that they wrote Bruce a certain way for so long that this kind of behavior became the norm and harder to ignore as an established part of his character.

[Alan2099]

Well, if we're talking about the ''Tower of Babel'' plans, then those plans were specifically designed not to kill the Justice League but to take them down non-lethally.

His plan to stop Martian Manhunter was "make it so his skin catches fire".
His plan to stop Aquaman was make him deathly afraid of the very thing he needs to survive.
His plan to stop Wonder Woman was make her fight until her heart gives out.

I don't know how any of these were supposed to be non lethal.

For Superman it states that his plan was to change Kryptonite not to kill him, but to make him wish he was dead AND to see what other effects it would have. Meaning he had no real idea exactly what would happen.

His plan for the Flash might not have been lethal, but it was sadistic and Batman's own notes say he has no idea if there will be any long term side effects.

On the flipside, his plan to stop Green Lantern was to sneak up on him while he was asleep, which is a really really stupid plan to stop the guy if he ever goes rogue.


The worst part about any of that though, is we rarely see him having any real anti-villain plans. He just deals with those guys as they come. His allies his come up with plans and technology so he can kill them. His enemies... well, he'll just deal with them when the time comes.

[phantom1592]

The worst part about any of that though, is we rarely see him having any real anti-villain plans. He just deals with those guys as they come. His allies his come up with plans and technology so he can kill them. His enemies... well, he'll just deal with them when the time comes.

LOL!! Yeah, this is always my critique over the 'batgod' concept. With enough planning he can take out Superman, Flash, Green Lantern 'because he's BATMAN!!!!"....

But his VILLAINS?! Yeah, the Clown and the Luchador are relegated to 'Ummm Punch them and put them in a cell'.... and it doesn't work. Where are the Super secret plans using micro nanites when ClayFace shows up again... or Killer Croc? Or Solomon Grundy?

Gets even more annoying after Batman was so firmly on the 'no mind reprogram' side of Identity Crisis, when he has no problem with 'hypnotizing Green Lantern to be blind or Fear Toxining Aquaman... but Joker and Two-face seem to have the moral right to their own free will... Despite all the personality altering drugs teh Asylum gives them everyday... He would be FIRST in line for a magical mindwipe that stops psychopaths from causing harm.

[The True Detective]

His plan to stop Martian Manhunter was "make it so his skin catches fire".
His plan to stop Aquaman was make him deathly afraid of the very thing he needs to survive.
His plan to stop Wonder Woman was make her fight until her heart gives out.

I don't know how any of these were supposed to be non lethal.

For Superman it states that his plan was to change Kryptonite not to kill him, but to make him wish he was dead AND to see what other effects it would have. Meaning he had no real idea exactly what would happen.

His plan for the Flash might not have been lethal, but it was sadistic and Batman's own notes say he has no idea if there will be any long term side effects.

On the flipside, his plan to stop Green Lantern was to sneak up on him while he was asleep, which is a really really stupid plan to stop the guy if he ever goes rogue.


The worst part about any of that though, is we rarely see him having any real anti-villain plans. He just deals with those guys as they come. His allies his come up with plans and technology so he can kill them. His enemies... well, he'll just deal with them when the time comes.

Most of his villains aren't powerful enough to warrant some intricate plan in case of emergency, he can just one-shot most of them. Joker, Riddler, Two-Face, Penguin, etc aren't even really physical threats to him he has no reason to devise emergency ways of stopping them. Notice how he has plans to stop Superman but not Green Arrow, notice how he has plans to stop Wonder Woman but not Dick. Why in the world would he need contingency plans for normal humans most of whom he could beat up himself or stop with his regular tech?

Comparing him having contingency plans for the JL but not his largely normal human villains doesn't make any sense, it's like asking why use a rolled up newspaper on a fly when you own a rifle. They aren't powerful enough to warrant extreme tech and years of planning.

[The True Detective]

Thinking of ways to kill them giddily, no. But he has done it in canon more than once, indicating that he doesn't learn his lesson and rarely expresses remorse. Especially in the lead up to Infinite Crisis, where a lot of innocent people got killed due the Brother Eye/Omac situation getting out of control.

Whereas in the out of continuity Justice, his plans got hacked. He felt really guilty about his friends being hurt because of it, and the League didn't judge him because they found it sensible. Everyone acted maturely, and what do you know? Nobody calls Batman a jerk in that story.



Nice hyperbole. This is why it's kind of hard to take your arguments seriously.



It's because they have their petty, jerkish moments with a little less frequency. And don't have stuff like War Games and Infinite Crisis on their resumes.

His holier than thou attitude towards Wonder Woman when she killed Maxwell Lord and surrendered herself to the Hague rubs people the wrong way when his Brother Eye plan lead to the deaths of many Amazons and he never so much as apologized or faced any consequences for it.

And the problem with stuff like this is that they wrote Bruce a certain way for so long that this kind of behavior became the norm and harder to ignore as an established part of his character.

It's not hyperbole when every post you make about him is calling him an ******* for the 600th time as if we're unfamiliar with your feelings on him. You may not think he suffered any in-universe repercussions for his actions but fans damn sure haven't let him off the hook which was my point. Wonder Woman got flak from Batman and Superman for killing Maxwell Lord but fans were on her side. Bruce usually gets flak from other characters and fans.

Their moments are a little less frequent? Not imo, it's well documented how hostile the Batfamily can be towards Bruce constantly blaming him for any problem in their lives. Eventually they have to get over "Bruce wronged me!" but they never will because writers and fans are stuck on them putting Bruce in his place for every wrong he's ever committed against them. Dick fans are still mad at Bruce for backfisting him in the Court of Owls , Wonder Woman fans still hold onto her putting her foot on his head as a cathartic "win" for various reasons, Superman fans hold onto their anger of anytime Bruce has gotten one over on him.

None of those fans want their favorites to move on, Wonder Woman fans aren't gonna roll their eyes if she acts aggressive towards Bruce they love when she "owns" him. But he's the one who needs to let his parents' death go and get on with his life. Everyone else can hold onto petty feelings and grudges especially if it's against Bruce but he always has to be the bigger person and move on.