*Nods to Shai Hulud* Benedict of Amber (Chronicles of Amber) vs Shin (Kingdom)

[Nik Hasta]

Amber is on the ascent so I figured I'd put out a fun sword fight Rumble.

Ri Shin, General of Pre-unification China, takes on the Warmaster of Amber in one-on-one combat.

Location: The centre of the Shuukai Plains, combatants start off 100 feet from each other.

- Benedict has his default sword, not Grayswandir

Couple of variants here:

1A) Shin, armed with his sword, takes on Benedict.
1B) Shin, armed with Ouki's glaive, takes on Benedict.

2) Kyoukai, prior to sacrificing her life force to save Shin, takes on Benedict.

3) If Benedict should triumph over both of the above scenarios, Kyoukai and Shin team up together to take him on.

I'm aware that Shin and Kyoukai are comparatively niche so I'll be pulling some feats together in full this evening.

In the interim here are some comparatively early Shin feats with scans.

And a small Kyoukai write up across two posts in the same thread

I will do a proper feats post for both of them later today.

But yeah, can a thousand years of experience of training and warfare be overcome by youth, tenacity and the so-called SPIRIT OF A GREAT GENERAL?

[Sharpandpointies]

Edit: Going to note that Benedict doesn't really HAVE a default sword - he's noted as using whateverthehell he wants, whenever, because - as Corwin notes - he uses all of them with equal proficiency. Could argue it's the one he uses against Corwin (because that's the only one that is described); it also happens to be one he used, side by side with Corwin, to fight an opponent Corwin thought was unbeatable (so he has at least used it twice).

[Corwin] Benedict proved me wrong that day.

Anyway, we could just say 'Benedict with generic sharp and pointy thing' and leave it at that. ^_^

I haven't seen do anything involving actual superspeed for Shin, aside from blocking an arrow. I feel that Benedict has higher speed based on 'Merlin, who is considered superhuman (I would consider him basically 'superior to normal human capability'), actually cannot see Benedict moving when Benedict decides the gloves, they are off'.

Between the lack of equivalence in speed and the fact that Benedict is so skilled it's considered shit-scary for Corwin, who literally has over a thousand years of experience himself and is considered to be one of the best fighters in the entire series (and who is frightened by...I dunno, basically nobody outside of maybe his Dad, and that not having anything to do with 'fighting ability'), I don't see Benedict having a problem chopping Shin up. Certainly he's strong enough as well, given the way he effortlessly carves through 3" thick trees.

Kyoukai, on the other hand, seem to have legit superspeed. And not just superspeed, mind, but as noted by you, she's invisible...to people who utterly blitz trained soldiers. And has a level above that, apparently.

This is sufficiently above Benedict in speed, and he's not immune to 'stab in face', so I figure he stops there.

Side note: it's actually better than 'a thousand years'. It's like...'many' thousands of years. ^_^ Benedict is a guy who not only trains himself in fighting, but in warfare and strategy; the guy does stuff like 'I'm going to watch this entire battle, start to end. Then I'm going to move to all of the parallel worlds where the battle is happening, and see how the minute changes between those worlds affect the battle. Then I'll start introducing variables myself, and see how THAT changes things. Etc.' He also travels to different worlds, finds the weakest side of any conflict, and figures out (as an experiment) how to make that side win, regardless of the disparity in the forces. And always does.

He has been doing this obsessively for millennia.

[Sharpandpointies]

I would guess that Benedict would be able to fight with Kyoukai (and win) if she didn't start up the dance, due to comparative speed and rather greater skill (also, apparently, being stronger and easily more enduring).

I think if she did her 'I can now take apart a group of people I was just a little bit outpacing before', it's an uphill battle for Benedict, but one he can at least TRY to fight by dint of his skill, his strength, etc. Maaaaybe an equal fight?

Anything past that would be 'nope' for me. At that point, there's an argument that she blitzes Benedict, and again, he's not bulletproof or superhumanly durable (damage soak out the wazoo, tougher than a human but not immune to blades, etc).

Fun thread, Nik. ^_^

[Nik Hasta]

I think with his recent feats and gradual improvement in terms of strength and skill, Shin is capable of actually holding his own with Benedict. The guy is not too dissimilar to Houken in terms of his stats.

I'll try and pull some feats together to give a cohesive view of his strength and growth.

[Sharpandpointies]

I think with his recent feats and gradual improvement in terms of strength and skill, Shin is capable of actually holding his own with Benedict. The guy is not too dissimilar to Houken in terms of his stats.

I'll try and pull some feats together to give a cohesive view of his strength and growth.

Speed is the issue. Also skill. There's no question Shin can HURT Benedict if he connects, and it seems likely that one way or another endurance isn't going to be a factor (though really, if it is then I'd back Benedict).

Important question: Is Shin armored, or not?

[Nik Hasta]

He does wear armour regularly now.

There's a loose speed development as well. Possibly comparable with Benedict, might depend on how we scale Shin against Kyoukai.

I'm just checking the early phases of the story so I can yardstick it out but I'll put this here for example:

In the first arc, after a roughly 10 year old Shin has kicked the shit out of a small village of bandits with a wooden sword without being touched (just noting that because he's already clearly above normal adults), an assassin from the Shukyou clan shows up and demonstrates his speed thusly:



Shin fights this guy and, despite being at a disadvantage, is able to duel him pretty evenly and kills him.

Flash forward like... a year or so, after Shin has been to war a couple of times, he takes on another assassin from same order and this time, instead of an even duel, it goes like this:





As Sei notes in the second scan, he struggled really hard against even one of them previously and now they are mere speedbumps to him. Shin is often overshadowed in terms of speed by Kyoukai, who when they first fight (in the same sequence as the above feat from Shin as it happens), Shin can't even meaningfully lay a hand on her.

But he's no slouch.

There's a good feat much later in the Siege of Sai where Sei gets seriously injured and falls to his knees unconscious and starts to collapse over, in the time it takes for him to fall from his knees to prone, Shin kills eleven men and then still manages to catch Sei's head before he hits the ground.

The problem is there's like 700 chapters of Kingdom and rooting through it takes a while >_<

[Sharpandpointies]

Will have a look at this tonight - thanks, Nik.

[Sharpandpointies]

Okay, so that's a good start. Assassin dude can blur-strike kill people, Shin later on takes out someone on that level and wipes them out pretty easily.

He's at least fast enough to fight Benedict without getting blitzed, I would guess (kind of like Corwin). Given Benedict is literally invisible to Merlin (and Corwin describes him as moving with, and I quote, "near-invisible speed", Corwin being above a human) when he's doing similar stuff, I'm uncertain if there is equality in their speeds. But then, Shin may get faster (I'm pretty sure you'll find SOMETHING in there, manga does tend to lean heavily into 'gets faster and faster).

So, Shin can fight Benedict at this point speedwise (how well is open to question, and I'm curious to see if Shin eventually comes out ahead due to speed-creep). I'm pretty sure he can manage strength-wise, in that each of them is strong enough to kill the other one when using a blade, that's not a problem. There's endurance - which Shin has a bucketload of, but I'm pretty sure Amberites come out ahead on that area - which honestly I don't feel will come into this too much due to 'blades, they're likely to kill one another before it becomes a factor'.

Skill is always a problem to measure.

Corwin, a top-end guy in a multiverse of highly-skilled, immortal people, an immortal who has been in hundreds of wars (not battles, wars), and like Shin has zero problems murdering his way through armies, says this about fighting Benedict.

"I was overwhelmed with a sense of my own mortality, which I had never experienced before in this fashion. It was as though a layer had been stripped from the world and I had a sudden, full understanding of death itself."

"But as he advanced, he swung the weapon, almost casually, back and forth, and the trees fell about him as he passed. If only he were not so infernally competent. If only he were not Benedict..."

"It was like trying to fence with a glacier. I became convinced he was out of his mind, not that it helped me any. With anybody else, an insane madness would cause the loss of some control in a fight. But Benedict had hammered out his reflexes over the centuries, and I seriously believed that the removal of his cerebral cortex would not have altered his movements from their state of perfection."

"He drove me steadily back, and I dodged among the trees and he cut them down and kept coming. I made the mistake of attacking and barely stopped his counterthrusts inches from my breast. I fought down the first wave of panic that came to me when I saw that he was driving me back toward the edge of the grove. Soon he would have me in the open, with no trees to slow him."

So, that's Benedict slowed down by the trees. Minimally, but slowed. And Corwin is still basically going on about his perfection, his utter dominance, how he's so dead, etc., and truly not looking forward to getting pushed out of the treed area.

Then there's the wtf-ery of the Ganelon scene.

"With a mighty cry, Ganelon sprang from somewhere, wrapping his arms around Benedict and pinning his sword-arm to his side.

Even had I really wanted to, though, I did not have the opportunity to kill him then. He was too fast, and Ganelon was not aware of the man's strength.

Benedict twisted to his right, interposing Ganelon between us, and at the same time brought the stump of his arm around like a club, striking Ganelon in the left temple. Then he pulled his left arm free, seized Ganelon by the belt, swept him off his feet, and threw him at me. As I stepped aside, he retrieved his blade from where it had fallen near his feat and came at me again. I barely had time to glance and see that Ganelon had landed in a heap some ten paces to my rear."

All of that, leaving Corwin enough time to do...nothing, and it's even a hard thing for Corwin to take a quick glance over his shoulder (Corwin, again, being rather above humanity himself).

The guy does live up to the skill part of his description; Corwin needs to actually use an environmental thing that Benedict had zero knowledge of to barely manage to win. Benedict also does stuff like 'fence the best fighter of the Courts of Chaos (another immortal) and toy with him, to the point of stuff like clipping buttons off his shirt.'

[Nik Hasta]

My take is that Benedict is more akin to Kyoukai (or, let's be real, Houken) than Shin. The whole impossible skill and chopping down of trees definitely put me in mind of Houken because of how he trains:



It is worth noting that Shin blocks and survives hits from Houken and does subsequently defeat him, albeit almost literally at the cost of his own life and due to a number of fairly specific circumstances. The takeaway is that while Shin can play in this ballpark, he's not at the level where it's routine for him.

I will note that his ability to block and his sheer durability might well exceed Benedict's. Shin has multiple instances of taking hits that send him flying like 30 feet, bouncing off the ground and slamming into groups of armoured men and then getting back up and continuing. From memories of how Amber people take hits, I think he's got the better feats.

With regards to skill, Shin is a combat prodigy and has victories against people with literal decades of experience on him under his belt (Rinko, Gai Mou, Houken). He's not at the level of actively trolling people in combat as you described with the Merlin and certainly has to work harder for his wins, mostly because he's usually the underdog.

I feel it's like 8/10 in favour of Benedict. Seem fair? Shin might get a lucky shot here and there and he does have a tremendous ability to keep going. There's actually a scene that's softly played for laughs where Kyoukai cuts Shin on the arm in a spar and he flexes the wound closed. Not sure if that's viable for a feat but, given how he both of his thighs pretty much laid open by Rinko in their duel, killed Rinko and then rode up a small mountain and confronted Renpa, slashing damage is more of a suggestion than a viable strategy to keep him down.

Benedict should be able to outskill him fairly consistently so he takes the majority.

[Nik Hasta]

In other news, concrete speed feats for Shin is a bit tricky.

1) Kingdom doesn't really do that much in terms of speed stuff. It's, ostensibly, a bit more grounded than other manga.

2) At a certain point, I find myself not skimming Kingdom for feats and just reading Kingdom again haha.

I did find a couple more instances of him parrying arrows out of the air, some of them on horseback, including one of him blocking an arrow from one of the Ten Bows of China. Also, a feat of him snatching Karyo Ten out of the path of arrows when being ambushed.

But yeah, slow going hah.

[Sharpandpointies]

My take is that Benedict is more akin to Kyoukai (or, let's be real, Houken) than Shin. The whole impossible skill and chopping down of trees definitely put me in mind of Houken because of how he trains:



It is worth noting that Shin blocks and survives hits from Houken and does subsequently defeat him, albeit almost literally at the cost of his own life and due to a number of fairly specific circumstances. The takeaway is that while Shin can play in this ballpark, he's not at the level where it's routine for him.

I can get behind that. I feel that there could be a speed advantage (advantage, not blitz) to Benedict based on what we have for Shin at this moment. I expect you'll find more speedfeats, mind. The Houken comparison seems like a good one. Kyoukai too fast.

I will note that his ability to block and his sheer durability might well exceed Benedict's. Shin has multiple instances of taking hits that send him flying like 30 feet, bouncing off the ground and slamming into groups of armoured men and then getting back up and continuing. From memories of how Amber people take hits, I think he's got the better feats.

Some of that is going to be armor, of course, but manga characters tend to have absolutely ludicrous damage soak. I wouldn't be completely surprised if Shin were better at absorbing blunt force trauma. Amber characters don't tend to 'loft' people with their hits, other than when they 'grab and throw' (which, hilariously, takes Ganelon right the hell out of the fight, one can see that Zelazny was writing organically because based on what we later learn, it should not have done so). But lemme think of examples.

Okay.

Corwin fighting Gérard is Corwin basically punching all shit out of Gérard while desperately trying to keep himself out of Gérard's grip. It literally does nothing (Gérard basically finds it giggle-worthy). The clincher (haha), though, is once Gérard actually gets his hands on Corwin (as I recall, I could be misremembering the sequence), Corwin decides 'screw it' and hits Gérard with everything he has. The notation is that it would have rupture the organs of a mortal (ie, Corwin basically punches hard enough to kill humans). That buys him a grunt out of Gérard, nothing more. Gérard then basically obliterates Corwin, but then Gérard does that to anyone he gets his hands on (except potentially 'Dad').

Now, Benedict isn't Gérard. However, once he's pinned down in his fight with Corwin, and Corwin wants to take him out (KO), it takes multiple hits as I remember with the flat of Corwin's sword and punches to put Benedict down (Corwin, again, being a guy who kills normals by punching them), despite the hits coming from behind when Benedict is essentially pinioned.

Ooo, remembered another! Benedict also did have his arm cut off and then killed the person who did that. Lintra the Hellmaid must have been one...hell of a swordswoman to manage even that against Benedict, though he was distracted when she did it. That Benedict could then come back and kill her after losing his arm at the elbow (sword arm, at the time - he's ambidextrous, but would have had to pick up his sword again) says something.

...I'll warrant this likely could still put Benedict below Shin for eating blunt force. ^_^ But damage soak/fighting through wounds, I would say they run fairly close.

With regards to skill, Shin is a combat prodigy and has victories against people with literal decades of experience on him under his belt (Rinko, Gai Mou, Houken). He's not at the level of actively trolling people in combat as you described with the Merlin and certainly has to work harder for his wins, mostly because he's usually the underdog.

I feel it's like 8/10 in favour of Benedict. Seem fair? Shin might get a lucky shot here and there and he does have a tremendous ability to keep going. There's actually a scene that's softly played for laughs where Kyoukai cuts Shin on the arm in a spar and he flexes the wound closed. Not sure if that's viable for a feat but, given how he both of his thighs pretty much laid open by Rinko in their duel, killed Rinko and then rode up a small mountain and confronted Renpa, slashing damage is more of a suggestion than a viable strategy to keep him down.

Benedict should be able to outskill him fairly consistently so he takes the majority.

Based on what we have here, I'm figuring it's somewhere in that ballpark. Benedict enjoys speed and skill advantages, they can each mess each other up (it's less a matter of 'Benedict will cut up Shin' and more a matter of 'Benedict's attacks will either hit something vital or remove limbs'), Shin maybe has better feats for fighting through damage, maybe not. But a couple of advantages doesn't lead me to say 'absolute curbstomp!', and we're not talking about blitzes or anything. Clear majority Benedict but Shin puts up a fight and maybe wins a couple, seems logical to me. I would say Benedict 8-9/10 - only reason I upped it a little off your estimate is due to recalling that Benedict is also capable of fighting through extreme damage and winning (loss of arm), which somewhat nulls Shin's potential advantage in that department (I hadn't remembered that point before).

And I'm not going to say that Benedict has some 'absolute massive skill advantage' on Shin. Different universes have different 'skill levels'. The people in Kingdom...there are a whole lot of them who just get to be ridiculous to the point where they're slaughtering entire groups of enemies in a single hit, and part of that is due to 'skill'. As you say, Shin is supposed to be some kind of combat prodigy, clearly demonstrates such, and can duke it out and win against people who crush small armies, so I'm fine with his skill being up to a level where he can at least fight Benedict without getting faked out and then insta-murdered.

In other news, concrete speed feats for Shin is a bit tricky.

1) Kingdom doesn't really do that much in terms of speed stuff. It's, ostensibly, a bit more grounded than other manga.

2) At a certain point, I find myself not skimming Kingdom for feats and just reading Kingdom again haha.

I did find a couple more instances of him parrying arrows out of the air, some of them on horseback, including one of him blocking an arrow from one of the Ten Bows of China. Also, a feat of him snatching Karyo Ten out of the path of arrows when being ambushed.

But yeah, slow going hah.

I did notice that the Kingdom characters don't seem to have a whole lot of the usual manga 'Speed Killz' thing happening. They just...get inexplicably strong and tough, and capable of outmuscling entire groups of enemy soldiers simultaneously, or cutting them down like wheat.

Which is sort of in keeping with the whole Romance of the Three Kingdoms thing.

Like, 'human limits, what's that? Growth is constant.' ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

I always find it amusing that Corwin, one of the best fighters in the series (tied for second), describes part of his fight with Benedict with "I made the mistake of attacking".

^_^ Zelazny dry humor at its best.

[Nik Hasta]

I can get behind that. I feel that there could be a speed advantage (advantage, not blitz) to Benedict based on what we have for Shin at this moment. I expect you'll find more speedfeats, mind. The Houken comparison seems like a good one. Kyoukai too fast.

It is worth noting that Houken, in the first occasion that they fought, was able to duel with Kyoukai using her Dance and block everything, barring entirely superficial cuts, she could throw at him and then smacked her when she gassed out. Cut to like... man, eight years later and Kyoukai goes (in her own words) "deeper into her trance than she's ever gone," and duels with Houken evenly. She scores more hits than him and they duel for a while but he ends up grabbing her by the ankle ragdolling her a la Hulk's "puny god," moment against the ground repeatedly.

So she had like, a speed advantage, but it was pretty thin.

After that, you'd think that Shin would be too slow to play but his duel with Houken is basically Houken hitting him a lot and Shin just refusing to go down. Despite Houken's blows being capable of felling big old trees, he can't break Shin's glaive and he can't maul him enough for him to stay down.

Though, as noted, the effort of doing this did literally kill Shin as he collapsed immediately after cutting Houken down.

Just to touch on speed personal to Houken, he also has some feats of like "blocks storms of arrows by snatching up a corpse with his glaive and twirling the body like a shield in front of him," and "block dozens of javelins thrown from three different directions with such precision he is sending them directly back to hit the people that threw them," He also has a flash step type feat where he crosses like 10 metres in an instant and beheads like five people before a group of soldiers who were covering him with crossbows.

So... Shin being able to duel him somewhat evenly suggests that he's in that kind of ballpark by that point but it's not super clean.

Some of that is going to be armor, of course, but manga characters tend to have absolutely ludicrous damage soak. I wouldn't be completely surprised if Shin were better at absorbing blunt force trauma. Amber characters don't tend to 'loft' people with their hits, other than when they 'grab and throw' (which, hilariously, takes Ganelon right the hell out of the fight, one can see that Zelazny was writing organically because based on what we later learn, it should not have done so). But lemme think of examples.

---snip---

...I'll warrant this likely could still put Benedict below Shin for eating blunt force. ^_^ But damage soak/fighting through wounds, I would say they run fairly close.

Shin is able to eat hits from dudes who pulp skulls with their blows and literally like delete a chunk of a person where they hit them via blunt force trauma. That's the thing, blocking is super good in Kingdom. If you can kinda block it, you are sort of protected against mortal damage.

I did notice that the Kingdom characters don't seem to have a whole lot of the usual manga 'Speed Killz' thing happening. They just...get inexplicably strong and tough, and capable of outmuscling entire groups of enemy soldiers simultaneously, or cutting them down like wheat.

Which is sort of in keeping with the whole Romance of the Three Kingdoms thing.

Like, 'human limits, what's that? Growth is constant.' ^_^

Shin with his glaive is sending like five armoured men with big solid shields flying into the air with a single swing. Dude is jacked.

[Sharpandpointies]

It is worth noting that Houken, in the first occasion that they fought, was able to duel with Kyoukai using her Dance and block everything, barring entirely superficial cuts, she could throw at him and then smacked her when she gassed out. Cut to like... man, eight years later and Kyoukai goes (in her own words) "deeper into her trance than she's ever gone," and duels with Houken evenly. She scores more hits than him and they duel for a while but he ends up grabbing her by the ankle ragdolling her a la Hulk's "puny god," moment against the ground repeatedly.

So she had like, a speed advantage, but it was pretty thin.

After that, you'd think that Shin would be too slow to play but his duel with Houken is basically Houken hitting him a lot and Shin just refusing to go down. Despite Houken's blows being capable of felling big old trees, he can't break Shin's glaive and he can't maul him enough for him to stay down.

Just to touch on speed personal to Houken, he also has some feats of like "blocks storms of arrows by snatching up a corpse with his glaive and twirling the body like a shield in front of him," and "block dozens of javelins thrown from three different directions with such precision he is sending them directly back to hit the people that threw them," He also has a flash step type feat where he crosses like 10 metres in an instant and beheads like five people before a group of soldiers who were covering him with crossbows.

So... Shin being able to duel him somewhat evenly suggests that he's in that kind of ballpark by that point but it's not super clean.

Yeah, we're kind of into a squint hard, what exactly is happening here? question. Seems to be a big gap between Houken and Shin by feats, and Shin doesn't solo small armies, yet he can fight (and win) against Houken.

Shin is able to eat hits from dudes who pulp skulls with their blows and literally like delete a chunk of a person where they hit them. That's the thing, blocking is super good in Kingdom. If you can kinda block it, you are sort of protected against mortal damage.

Works for me. ^_^

Shin with his glaive is sending like five armoured men with big solid shields flying into the air with a single swing. Dude is jacked.

I recall him being one of those guys who is slamming people around, yeah. And I feel that, in Kingdom anyway, is at least partly due to 'skill' (ie, training provides which stupid level of hitting power and ability to inhumanly slam people around despite someone not being 8' tall and broad as a double-doorway).

Interesting match-up to be sure. Be curious to see if you find better speed-feats for Shin, as that would certainly tip the numbers.

[Nik Hasta]

Yeah, we're kind of into a squint hard, what exactly is happening here? question. Seems to be a big gap between Houken and Shin by feats, and Shin doesn't solo small armies, yet he can fight (and win) against Houken.

Part of this is the whole spiritual angle of "being a Great General of the Heavens," which isn't... fully Rumbles viable but it's a factor.

Houken is purified martial might, he only fights with his own strength and is therefore held up by only his own willpower. Shin, Ouki, Duke Hyou and others are Great Generals and are therefore held up by their comrades and their combined spirit. This contributes to the weight of their blows to make them stronger than they should be, especially in duels.

This is first shown when Ouki, having been shot in the back by one of the Ten Bows and then impaled right through his midsection by Houken has an exchange that basically goes;

Ouki: "Bitch, you think this is enough to kill me? Me and boys are gonna roll on out of here, I will just need to cut down Ouki real quick,"

*swings slowly because he has several enormous holes in his torso*

Houken: "this is asinine, you are already dead," *catches glaive by the shaft in his hand*

Ouki: "Oh am I?"

Houken: *finds he cannot stop Ouki from swinging despite all of the aforementioned big holes and blood loss* "What...?! This is literally impossible,"

Ouki: "Great General bitch, I don't have to care about the rules,"

So, Shin gets to the point where he is, technically, more than just a man. He is a Great General now which means he hits harder and is supported by the spirits of his men both living and dead. There's some ambiguity as to how literal this is in the setting but, given that Houken has feats and abilities that make him seem like he wandered in from a different manga with different rules, this feels like an appropriate counter-balance.

Also, also, in extreme enough circumstances, Shin can do the whole solo small armies bit (kind of). At the Siege of Sai, Shin goes all out on the penultimate day and slaughters dozens, if not hundreds of men as they swarm the walls of the city. He has his men with him but they are like "we actually can't get near him and more the half the dead people on the floor from this day's fighting are courtesy of Shin,"

This, again, basically wiped him out to do so. Houken does it way more easily and more often by Shin, as discussed, can just about reach that level with his peak performances.

I recall him being one of those guys who is slamming people around, yeah. And I feel that, in Kingdom anyway, is at least partly due to 'skill' (ie, training provides which stupid level of hitting power and ability to inhumanly slam people around despite someone not being 8' tall and broad as a double-doorway).

Interesting match-up to be sure. Be curious to see if you find better speed-feats for Shin, as that would certainly tip the numbers.

I'm not sure I'm going to, to be honest haha.

The series just doesn't work that way.

I think Benedict will definitely know he's been in a fight either way, might be down a limb or have a lot of damage but he's frankly, just a bit better and quicker than his opponent.