Should Superman intervene in the Russia/Ukraine situation?

[Lightning Rider]

Yeah, I suspect every government would have a state sponsored, if not controlled outright super-team. Kinda like how in the case of Captain Atom he's written as active US Military. He has duties and obligations as part of that. I personally suspect that IRL that would be the norm and not the exception. It's like Lex Luthor said, having an individual who can fight a small army as an operative not associated with any government would not sit well with governments. Sure, there's that "neutral party" idea, but often that means being untrusted by everyone.

OOH! Here's a twist on it from a different universe: Goku in Dragon Ball! What political organization is he associated with? That's the funny thing... while various cultures and groups get identified in DB as the equivalent of nations, we don't have a lot of info about the one Goku lives in. Although there are some signs that Capsule Corp is such an enormous mega-corp that even if they don't directly control the government, the government does what they say. And well... Goku has strong ties to Capsule Corp. If Bulma asks him for a "favor", well... it's usually done before the end of the day. This is presumably the reason the Saiyan Prince Vegeta, heir to the throne of the kingdom controlling his (destroyed) planet, chose to marry her. She's effectively the closest thing Earth in the DB universe has to a queen. Which yeah, that means Vegeta bows to Bulma's whims too. Soo... Goku, Vegeta, and their associates... well work for the most powerful organization on the planet. Capsule Corp isn't technically a political entity, but... it's just that huge.

Another good example in Marvel is the way SHIELD and the Avengers work. some Superheroes in Marvel are explicitly working for governments. the most famous example is Captain America. But he's far from the only one.

I would imagine that Superman must be considered a Super-Blue Helmet peacekeeper by the international community.

Never considered deconstructing DBZ like that, lol. Crazy to think about.

[marhawkman]

I would imagine that Superman must be considered a Super-Blue Helmet peacekeeper by the international community.

Never considered deconstructing DBZ like that, lol. Crazy to think about.

Pretty sure, blue helmet would mean staying out of the Russia-Ukraine scenario though.

[Rod G]

Superman would get involved.As an independent agent.

I could get along with THAT idea.

[Restingvoice]

He'll put on a mask and a different costume then starts helping people

[Soubhagya]

Excuse me bat39. Its quite a late reply.

It's very admirable, from a moral perspective, that he's willing to get killed 10 times over, but it won't stop the Ukraine-Russia crisis...Or by Russia's own superhero team.

I fail to understand the point that you are making. Being a superhero entails a sense of danger. Every time Superman puts on his costume and fights, he's in danger of being hurt or being killed.

...I mean, when Superman lands in Ukraine, who exactly is he representing in the conflict?

No one and everyone. Being an alien, he's not even of this planet. So, if he wants he can claim that the whole world is his home. He need not favor any one party over the other. However he would favor life.

A. ...But what happens if the US or an EU country chooses to militarily intervene in another country? What if the US chooses to invade Afghanistan again (maybe in the same of stopping the Taliban's human rights abuses)? Does Superman stop that invasion?... Is his perspective Western/US-aligned and in that case is he basically an instrument of US policy?...

Instrument implies control by Western/US aligned powers, who could use Superman for their own purposes. Superman may have some ideals similar to them. Pro-democracy, equality, etc. But that doesn't mean that he would work according to their order or directions. Superman would see right through such big leaders, just like he sees across walls. Big words are used to hide the true purpose of warfare: self interest. No country invades another for some ideology. But to protect its interests.

If we are talking of a Superman who exists, he would be among the first to realize that such ideas are meaningless if it doesn't work at the ground level. If we look at history, Afghanistan actually was taking steps towards democracy. But the intervention of Soviet Union and the Western powers strengthened the fundamentalist elements, who wiped out the political elements who were being part of this change. Democracy by definition is a government 'of the people'. You cannot have a government of the people, if the people themselves haven't built it. Every nation or village has its own story. Superman need not write that story. That's the job of the people.

B. ...With what authority? With what understanding of the complex history of the conflict?

Who gave him the authority to put out fires or catch criminals? In such stories, a superhero's origin is almost always rooted in the idea that to an extent the system doesn't work without them. The system may accept them for convenience, but at least their beginning is as an outsider to the system.

Not every Superman would approach this in the same way. But say you take Morrison's Superman. Dude read all medical books on surgery in ten minutes to operate on Lois. Give him time to read up the entire history. Give him 6 hours, maybe? Then let him do some actual journalism on the ground. Let him work on understanding/unearthing the 'Truth'. Without truth how can there be justice? Justice would be the actual job to save lives and end the conflict. But first you need to know what needs to be done.



Superman has the resources, the energy and the will to do the thing which would be right. I am not saying i know what needs to be done. But in this scenario where Superman exists, given time he'll know it. Every version has super senses and is a reporter. Most have access to Krypton's knowledge and technology. Bendis even wrote a Superman, who can catch that you're lying by your heartbeat. That's quite useful when you are investigating the leaders. They say Batman is the best detective. That's because Superman allows him to be. (Or rather writers don't think of doing anything about him being a reporter).

[Soubhagya]

C....But in that case he'd basically have to end any conflict in the world because every conflict has innocent bystanders caught in the middle. And to do that, he would basically have to take over the world and rule it forever as a benevolent but tough dictator. I'm not saying he's capable of it, but that's what it would take.

Not necessarily. Why be a king if you can be a kingmaker? Imagine something like this. But on a much larger scale.



As the leader of a country, you can do whatever you want. But if you don't be a good boy, expect a visit from the Ubermensch.

That's much more smart and practical. Suppose, something unusual happens over the next few years, and the President of USA actually takes over the world. Even in this one-world government you can't have someone sit in Washington DC and be looking into matters like railway strikes in Paris. Your governance can be up to effective up to this much space. Going beyond this wouldn't work in a practical sense.

The task of a leader of a country isn't just to provide law and order. That's the job of the police and judiciary wings of the government. If he had to take over a country he also had to look after their overall well being. Provide situations so that people would have the freedom to work for their well being, and reach their potential. That's a lot of work. Not something Superman seems to be interested in.

Plus, there's another very important factor. While the world seems to be divided into a number of countries, its quite convenient to look at it as a number of tribes or villages. After all a country is just a group of people claiming a piece of land as their own. There maybe issues and struggle for the position of leadership within a village. But their leader is still their own. Now, if someone from outside the village gets in and captures the position of leadership, naturally the villagers would resist. Because this person isn't their own.

So, even if Superman would be the best person to rule, people would still resist him. Because he's not their own. He's an outsider. Krypton. US. Western power. There can be many names for this foreign power. And history shows that foreign rule is always resisted. If people don't give him the power to rule, Superman's power to change the course of mighty rivers means nothing.

All Superman has to do is ensure that bad leaders don't get, or stay in power. Good leaders: people who actually do their job as a leader, would naturally take their place. A leader's job is to look after the well being of his or her people. If he or she causes trouble, he simply has to remove that person from power. Not create enmity with an entire country. Only its problematic leader(s).

There's history from Puranas, or Indian mythology as its known in academic circles, which has such examples. Lord Ram and Lord Krishna are two most prominent avataras of God, i.e., God coming down in human form. Both were kings. They fought wars. But they had zero interest in conquering lands, expanding influence on other kings or capturing wealth.

Ram fought against demon king Ravana of the kingdom of Lanka. Ravana had kidnapped Ram's wife. After all efforts for peace failed, Ram fought Ravana and killed him. Then he installed Ravana's noble younger brother as king and returned back to his kingdom with his wife and armies. He didn't even set his foot on Lanka. He had no interest in its riches, or exerting any influence upon it.

Its very much in line of the philosophy from Upanishads. Everything moving or non-moving is owned by God. Every living entity is God's children and has a quota fixed for him. A wise person never desires to encroach upon another's quota, knowing well to whom it actually belongs.

Krishna fought a lot of wars. But he never expanded his own kingdom. One of his most important fights was against King Jarasandha of Magadha kingdom. Jarasandha had imprisoned hundreds of kings and wanted to do human sacrifice of these kings. After Jarasandha was killed, Krishna gave Jarasandha's son the throne. He freed the imprisoned kings and sent them back to their kingdoms. He instructed them to rule over their subjects dutifully and carefully.

Such wars weren't against the enemy nations. But against the enemy kings. Once the successor was established there wouldn't be any interference in their rule. Krishna would fight you, only if you as a king misused your power. Krishna epitomizes true strength: free from passion and desire. Strength, which is meant to protect the weak. Not for personal aggression.

Superman the character has that kind of quality. He uses his strength to protect the weak. Fight the bullies. And he has nothing to gain by such fighting. If Superman became more proactive, i am pretty sure he would come to this idea sooner or later. He never wants power for himself. And he tends to trust people. He would give power instead of holding onto it.

Here's the thing - human history isn't a fairy-tale. Conflict is inherently part of the human condition. It's impossible to be completely unbiased and objective. I've tried to be, just for the sake of this thought experiment, and this is what I came up with.

I agree. However, you can have the best of systems. And yet systems are run by people. And people are fallible. Thus, there will always be conflict. There will always be people who want to exploit. Who want to control and enjoy at the cost of others. Who can't live and let live. Communism, democracy, Islam, country, etc. anything becomes a tool to worship their own religion- self interest. The best choice often is only the lesser evil. That could be his biggest challenge.

...Once he starts flying into battlefields and tearing up tanks and deposing dictators (or legitimately elected leaders who've taken decisions he disagrees with), you can bet the rest of the world will have a response.

As soon as the world would know that Superman exists, every government would work on a response. They wouldn't wait till Superman starts flying into battlefields or deposing dictators. As soon as he shows up, every government including USA would get paranoid. Even if Superman was busy only in rescuing kittens, the fact that he exists will be seen as a threat.

[marhawkman]

As soon as the world would know that Superman exists, every government would work on a response. They wouldn't wait till Superman starts flying into battlefields or deposing dictators. As soon as he shows up, every government including USA would get paranoid. Even if Superman was busy only in rescuing kittens, the fact that he exists will be seen as a threat.

Which is the actual important part. Govt's don't LIKE the idea that a super-alien can tell them what they're allowed to do. So there's no way that they'd just... play along if Superman shows up and tells them to stop being bad.

[manwhohaseverything]

Which is the actual important part. Govt's don't LIKE the idea that a super-alien can tell them what they're allowed to do. So there's no way that they'd just... play along if Superman shows up and tells them to stop being bad.

If superman has the merit of the argument,then they would have no choice but to play along.Even dictators have an image to protect.Clark kent with glasses exists for the exposing and communicating to the people.

[Soubhagya]

Which is the actual important part. Govt's don't LIKE the idea that a super-alien can tell them what they're allowed to do. So there's no way that they'd just... play along if Superman shows up and tells them to stop being bad.

I agree with the manwhohaseverything. Except for some early GA comics, no stories really speak anything about Clark Kent-the reporter. A pen is supposed to be mightier then a sword. And an image could speak a thousand words. Then a video might be more powerful then even Superman.

Suppose a war is happening because an arms lobby is putting pressure on the government. While the propaganda machine is busy churning out narratives of democracy, freedom or tyrannical dictatorship, the real reason was profits or oil. A dictator could be very fearful that evidence of his secret prisons holding political prisoners comes out in the open. Definitely someone with a guilty conscience has more to fear.

If anyone has read Sherlock Holmes, Supes could sound similar to a villain-Charles Augustus Milverton-the blackmailer. Governments aren't homogeneous units. Some people within governments would even like that someone like Superman exists. Like a Commissioner Gordon, who wants to do good in a murky environment like GCPD. After corrupt Commissioner Loeb was removed, Gordon became the commissioner. Likewise, governments have good and bad people within them. Of course, there's shades of grey. In Year One, Gordon was hardly a saint. But he was the right person.

Supes would have to work on finding allies. And may have to work more secretively so as to not draw attention. But he will find a way to work. Sure, he knows that he can't save everyone. But that doesn't mean that he would sit quietly at home as governments tell him to do so. Clearly, characters like Darkseid or Mongol don't exist in this world to let him think that he is helping.