Should Superman intervene in the Russia/Ukraine situation?

[marhawkman]

Superman can't protect everyone.Doesn't mean he won't try.Superman was meant to run around.Not sit on his ass at a stupid farm or an office doing stupid drama.Cause that ain't the right thing to do.Atleast, mine does the right thing.Leaping tall buildings and running on electric cable...all that.

"slippary slope" and "intervention=fascist superman",I see no credible arguments here.

Precisely why i prefer jsa..

The problem is that aggressive interventions only bring justice if you have enough info to know what the right decision is in advance. Realistically... in cases like this... all active parties are wrong to some degree. Intervening and supporting one side over the other and ignoring one side's point of view will make things worse in the long term.

[phantom1592]

There's a big difference between him dismantling all the weapons in the area of a conflict - something he was doing in the Fleischer cartoons of the 40's, only in that case it was on one side, and Injustice Superman. One lead to the other in Injustice, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way.

Not really. Back in the 40's It was all America all the Time. Good guys vs. Bad guys. Now days people acknowledge a lot more shades of Gray. Every horrible monster from Hitler to Vlad Tepesh is seen as a hero to their own people. No matter what side he takes, The moment he does.. then guarantee someone somewhere is gonna be screaming 'fascist'. You'll have every government everywhere joining together in secret cabals to fight back... which would make Superman crack down harder... and yeah, Injustice all over again.

It's one of the things I noticed when Injustice first got fleshed out... Superman was in the RIGHT in the beginning. Stop the violence. Protect the innocent. If people can't be trusted to govern themselves responsibly... than he SHOULD impose his ideas of fair play and Justice. How can he have the power to save lives and NOT stop all the wars everywhere... And then it went too far.

You basically can't have a superman who does that AND allow people free will. People with free will always lean toward evil.

[manwhohaseverything]

The problem is that aggressive interventions only bring justice if you have enough info to know what the right decision is in advance. Realistically... in cases like this... all active parties are wrong to some degree. Intervening and supporting one side over the other and ignoring one side's point of view will make things worse in the long term.

I don't care.People getting killed needs stopping.If putin wants neutrality.fine.He doesn't want to share border with us.Fine.A tank running over an old man civilian in ukranian soul..Not fine.It deserves to get thrown to the moon.

Not really. Back in the 40's It was all America all the Time. Good guys vs. Bad guys. Now days people acknowledge a lot more shades of Gray. Every horrible monster from Hitler to Vlad Tepesh is seen as a hero to their own people. No matter what side he takes, The moment he does.. then guarantee someone somewhere is gonna be screaming 'fascist'. You'll have every government everywhere joining together in secret cabals to fight back... which would make Superman crack down harder... and yeah, Injustice all over again.

It's one of the things I noticed when Injustice first got fleshed out... Superman was in the RIGHT in the beginning. Stop the violence. Protect the innocent. If people can't be trusted to govern themselves responsibly... than he SHOULD impose his ideas of fair play and Justice. How can he have the power to save lives and NOT stop all the wars everywhere... And then it went too far.

You basically can't have a superman who does that AND allow people free will. People with free will always lean toward evil.

Superman ain't no authority.of any kind(even the so called ideal of mankind type).why should he care?.People can do whatever the hell they want.Scream whatever they want.He's just a outlaw fighting on behalf of the common folks.The gladiator.People who use slippary slope arguments haven't bought into supermam as a concept or his never-ending battle.

[Digifiend]

Japanazis? Why did they call the Axis forces that? It implies that the Germans are Japanese, or that the Japanese are Nazis. It was more like an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation.

It's a little different in this case seeing as many doomsayers believe this is a catalyst for a wide-spread global conflict.

There are concerns that this could lead to World War Three, but this isn't the place to talk about that.

[Username taken]

Except he doesn't. Quick internet search said there were 40 wars being fought in 2021 alone. Innocents die ever day and Superman doesn't stop all of it. He just... can't.

I find the concept interesting, because I'm sure some of the same people who are saying that Superman would definitely stop the war, take all the weapons, depose the leaders.. etc. etc. are the very same people who hate the 'fascist Superman' made popular in things like Injustice. Looking at the world and saying 'That's it! I'm sick of all the evil. NO MORE EVIL while I'm around!" is EXACTLY how Injustice started out. He stopped the wars, took the weapons, threatened anyone who kept up with teh conflicting harsher punishments... and then things escalated. But he started out the same way. He was moving the line in the sand and deciding he knew what was best and he had the power to enforce it.

On a separate note, the JLA was specifically formed to STOP alien invasions from taking over the world... even if it's an alien invasion of one.

I picture Clark fighting with the governments to step up and make things right... but I just don't see him taking control of other countries sovereignty. He didn't do in the other dozens of wars... he wouldn't do it here.

Green Lantern probably would though. It's like legit his JOB to protect the planet as a whole and not get tied up in things like 'international borders.'

Superman protecting innocents during war isn’t fascist intervention. If there are 40 wars going on, then Superman should and will try to intervene in all of them. I mean, Superman is literally trying to free an entire planet from despotic rule. If he really existed, I don’t think he’d turn a blind eye to the horrors on Earth.

Ultimately, Superman should never sit around while innocents are being killed.

And Injustice Superman had a personal incident in his life that drove him over the edge. It doesn’t always have to be like that.

[Username taken]

I don't care.People getting killed needs stopping.If putin wants neutrality.fine.He doesn't want to share border with us.Fine.A tank running over an old man civilian in ukranian soul..Not fine.It deserves to get thrown to the moon.

Superman ain't no authority.of any kind(even the so called ideal of mankind type).why should he care?.People can do whatever the hell they want.Scream whatever they want.He's just a outlaw fighting on behalf of the common folks.The gladiator.People who use slippary slope arguments haven't bought into supermam as a concept or his never-ending battle.

Quoted for truth.

It’s not about what the governments want, it’s about saving lives from conflict.

[13th Superman]

I don't care.People getting killed needs stopping.If putin wants neutrality.fine.He doesn't want to share border with us.Fine.A tank running over an old man civilian in ukranian soul..Not fine.It deserves to get thrown to the moon.

Superman ain't no authority.of any kind(even the so called ideal of mankind type).why should he care?.People can do whatever the hell they want.Scream whatever they want.He's just a outlaw fighting on behalf of the common folks.The gladiator.People who use slippary slope arguments haven't bought into supermam as a concept or his never-ending battle.

Well said! The man was created to help the weak and the defense less. He can't save everyone but the Superman in my head will always try. It's why I'm so damn taken with PKJ's run.

[Ascended]

I find the concept interesting, because I'm sure some of the same people who are saying that Superman would definitely stop the war, take all the weapons, depose the leaders.. etc. etc. are the very same people who hate the 'fascist Superman'

And if Clark were real, and he did anything at all (not just in this case, but anything, anywhere) this is what some people would call him. Any choice Clark would make, whether it's simply saving someone from a car crash or involving himself in a war, somebody would bitch about it and call him a fascist because he didn't do what they'd want him to. Not to mention that the word "fascist" gets thrown around by everyone these days, including morons who don't actually know what that word really entails and only have some vague awareness that it involves taking away a person's rights.

But this is the guy who tries to saves everyone. Criminals included. His greatest enemies included. DC has dreamed up various excuses for why Clark and his peers don't change the world in drastic ways, but those are merely justifications to maintain the fiction (and its binary morality) and are usually at odds with the basic premise of the superhero construct. In the real world, someone with that kind of power who wants to make a difference and believes in the sanctity of life would feel responsible in these kinds of large scale conflicts and would involve themselves, and nobody would be calling them a hero for it, including the people who were benefitting from those actions, since the next time it might be to their detriment instead. But a real-world Clark wouldn't give a rat's ass if someone called him a fascist; the job is saving lives, not being popular. If you go outside the system to bring your own kind of justice to the world, you're not the type of person who cares if the authority figures like what you do.

So I feel like I should say something here. I posted this as my way of trying to cope with the situation. What would I do if I were Superman in a situation like this? I felt helpless and wanted to know how others would react in this situation. Imagining yourself as magic cartoon man fixing everything is a way of coping with a horrible situation. So I was curious if others felt the same. That is all I was trying to do with this thread.

I do the same thing man. These last few years have been such a crazy pile of BS I think we're all just desensitized to....everything. And I've sat back many times in recent years and thought "Well, if Clark were real what would he do? What would *I* do, if I had his power?" I know that my reaction to these things would be....stark, and not at all what Clark would approve of. It's interesting to see other people consider the same thing.

I've got a few friends in both countries, and I worry about them. My Russian friends are likely to be involved in the anti-war protests and a Russian prison is no place for anyone, especially lovely, kind folks like them. And every time I see a headline about civilians in the Ukraine I wonder if I'll see a familiar face (statistically unlikely as that is). Putting all this within the framework of Superman, and daydreaming about his intervention, is definitely a coping mechanism.

And maybe DoT is right and this is wildly rude of us. But there's nothing I can do about any of it and talking about dumb things like "WWSD?" has been....calming.

He would definitely intervene. There is a right and a wrong in the universe and the distinction should not be hard to make. That's how Superman thinks.

Loved this whole post.

I'm intrigued by some of the posts here claiming the guy wouldn't intervene. Intervening is the entire point of Superman, and it seems strange to me that people think he'd limit himself to stopping accidental deaths, as with natural disasters and such, but would allow intentional deaths, especially on a large scale, to happen. No need to say I disagree with that assertation.

As an aside, IÂ’m actually surprised at how many people in the US (mostly on the political right) have taken a lukewarm attitude and in some cases kind of support Putin.

I'm not taking potshots at anyone's political leanings here, but for years leadership within the republican party has talked about how wonderful and bigly putin is, so it's not a surprise that some Americans would support him. Why wouldn't they, when the leaders they trust seem to think the man is great? And I'm sure there are plenty of folks, regardless of party, who are so tired of war they'd hand the Ukraine to putin personally if it meant keeping American soldiers out of another conflict.

[Hoodj]

Hed kill Putin and allow Biden regulate russian authority with nato. Alot of us(writting put fan fiction onto him) want superman to follow a mythic sort of indifference and focus on the protection of civilians due to conceving him as a symbol of our innocence and better selves, but in the real world we would interpret him as being as pratical and as reaonate to american priorites as possible.

[Hoodj]

He's just a outlaw fighting on behalf of the common folks.The gladiator.

Hes adheres to goverment law and doesnt work with common people anymore in current comics.

[manwhohaseverything]

Hes adheres to goverment law and doesnt work with common people anymore in current comics.

Yeah!he quit citizenship as far as i can remember. New52 guy didn't give a damn either.

In the real world superman won't be working for the government..Their laws mean squat to him.No government has capacity to hold the sword of violence on him.He makes every power structure irrelevant.If nato and us government wants to bring him in,i would say they have balls.But,i don't think he will give up easily.Also,putin might think he is james bond.But,that ain't gonna be enough and why would superman play by your rules and kill putin?His only threat is nuclear.In the real world, he will be doing whatever the heck he wants.Which is the right thing in this case of fight on behalf of the common folks..

[marhawkman]

Yeah!he quit citizenship as far as i can remember. New52 guy didn't give a damn either.

In the real world superman won't be working for the government..Their laws mean squar to him.No government has capacity to hold the sword of violence on him.He makes every power structure irrelevant.If nato and us government wants to bring him in,i would sat they have balls.But,i don't think he will give up easily.Also,putin might think he is james bond.But,that ain't gonna be enough and why would he play by your rules and kill putin?His only threat is nuclear.In the real world, he will be doing whatever the heck he wants.Which is the right thing in this case of fight on behalf of the common folks..

Can you claim to fight for justice if the only law you respect is your own personal code of ethics?

[manwhohaseverything]

Can you claim to fight for justice if the only law you respect is your own personal code of ethics?

Ask batman,spiderman..etc.Those guys have codes.Batman is a knight(dark one).Supes doesn't claim anything.Also,world is full of contradicton.A man can be as well..If the personal code aligns with actual objective good.He would find evidence for it.He would be fighting for justice.It's justice for guy down the street.I believe it would justice.Superman wouldn't tall claims like fighting for truth or justice.But,he would want to and hope he is.Otherwise,he will quit.

Also,That ain't a code.code is rule..like "i don't kill" "i won't hit woman"..etc.

[marhawkman]

Ask batman,spiderman..etc.Those guys have codes.Batman is a knight(dark one).Supes doesn't claim anything.Also,world is full of contradicton.A man can be as well..If the personal code aligns with actual objective good.He would find evidence for it.He would be fighting for justice.It's justice for guy down the street.I believe it would justice.Superman wouldn't tall claims like fighting for truth or justice.But,he would want to and hope he is.Otherwise,he will quit.

Also,That ain't a code.code is rule..like "i don't kill" "i won't hit woman"..etc.

You're missing the point. there's a massive difference between living by your own personal code of ethics, and forcing others to live by your code of ethics.

[bat39]

Yeah!he quit citizenship as far as i can remember. New52 guy didn't give a damn either.

In the real world superman won't be working for the government..Their laws mean squat to him.No government has capacity to hold the sword of violence on him.He makes every power structure irrelevant.If nato and us government wants to bring him in,i would say they have balls.But,i don't think he will give up easily.Also,putin might think he is james bond.But,that ain't gonna be enough and why would superman play by your rules and kill putin?His only threat is nuclear.In the real world, he will be doing whatever the heck he wants.Which is the right thing in this case of fight on behalf of the common folks..

Well, your preference is a very specific version of Superman - the one from the early Siegal/Shuster stories. Fair enough. But what you're saying doesn't apply to every version of the character.

But even if we consider only the Siegal/Shuster version, he was far from omnipotent. Most governments very much had the power to ''hold the sword of violence'' over him. Even the heavy artillery of the late 1930's could, if employed effectively, theoretically have killed him. Today's weaponry could kill him several times over! Frankly, the main reason why Superman was able to operate with relatively impunity in those stories was because he kept a fairly low-profile, usually went up against people (cops or crooks) armed with no more than handguns, and over time, gained the grudging respect and admiration of the authorities, who couldn't officially condone his actions but privately agreed with many of them (and so were less likely to make much of an effort to do their jobs of stopping him).

If we consider later versions of Superman, assuming they were as interventionist as you'd want them to be, it's not as though there's nothing and no one which can stop him. In a world where Superman is seen as a potential military threat, countries would be sure to stockpile kryptonite weapons, or have their own super-soldier programs. Superman's involvement in any conflict would risk escalating it into a superhuman arms race.

Last but not least, you're talking about Superman fighting on behalf of the ''common folk''. But which common folk? The sad reality is that violence may be carried out by powerful political/social/military elites, but their reasoning is almost always supported or reinforced by some segment of ''common folk''. Even if you consider the current situation in Ukraine, there's a segment of the population which is pro-Russia, and supports the invasion in order to safeguard their interests against the pro-Western part of the country. So which set of ''common folk'' is Superman supposed to fight on behalf of? And if he's supposed to just take down anyone who's an armed combatant, then by that logic, he should be taking down the Ukranian forces as well. If he's only acting against one side, then he's clearly working on behalf of the other.