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  1. #31
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    Romita's jr's inks and pencils for a Norman/Peter scene has surfaced online

    spoilers:
    looks like Peter's starting work at Oscorp
    end of spoilers

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Romita's jr's inks and pencils for a Norman/Peter scene has surfaced online

    spoilers:
    looks like Peter's starting work at Oscorp
    end of spoilers

    care to post a link please?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Romita's jr's inks and pencils for a Norman/Peter scene has surfaced online

    spoilers:
    looks like Peter's starting work at Oscorp
    end of spoilers
    Did you found spoilers or something? Or you mean the preview?

    If it's something else, please send me the link

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathangoop1811 View Post
    Did you found spoilers or something? Or you mean the preview?

    If it's something else, please send me the link
    It's early inks/pencils for what I believe is a post-900 issue

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    It's early inks/pencils for what I believe is a post-900 issue
    Send it please

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    Romita's jr's inks and pencils for a Norman/Peter scene has surfaced online

    spoilers:
    looks like Peter's starting work at Oscorp
    end of spoilers
    Might explain where the Oscorp Spider-Suit came from. That said, this might also be where his "trial" in AXE: Judgment Day comes into play.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webhead View Post
    It opens a can of worms, for sure. But I believe it addresses two issues: 1) most of the themes and imagery of the Spencer run until Last Remains (Harry being equally pissed at Peter and Norman, which if Peter's deal happened to send him to Hell with Norman as proxy, makes sense); 2) it changes the original continuity but, by establishing it was messed with, it preserves it in a roundabout way and allows for things to be put back in place (a bit like the Hydra Cap deal).

    Sadly I doubt the extent of the changes made to Spencer's wrapping up will ever be clear.
    It'd be questionable considering the way Spencer made that scene, Norman could only have become Green Goblin because of the deal, not in spite of it.

    Unless Mephisto made Oscorp fail just to mess with Norman so he could be behind Green Goblin, but uh, why stop there? So limiting lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    Now I like this theory even more than before. It makes story sense - because Mephisto is the Prince of Lies and he is always going to try and exploit the loopholes in his deal - that if Mephisto wants Peter's and MJ's love, to go all the way back to Norman and Harry. After all, if Harry hadn't ODed, perhaps he and MJ would have gotten back together. If Norman didn't kill Gwen, Peter and MJ might never have been. So Mephisto is just assuring the events play out as they need to and ends up with Harry's soul in the bargain, which Mephisto would see as a delightful bonus. And it explains why Kindred!Harry was so angry at Peter, for seeking a deal with Mephisto and agreeing to give up love - something Harry didn't receive a lot of.

    I guess we'll never know Spencer's original story intentions - if he even had any other than what is on the page - but I can see something like that being the long game.
    This theory falls apart at the moment you realize that Mephisto is doing all of this to maybe stop Mayday from stopping him, 'cause he did jack **** to separate Spidey and MJ when he could've done more lol.

    But then again, OMD itself makes no sense even by Mephisto's usual deals...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  8. #38
    Mighty Member Webhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Unless Mephisto made Oscorp fail just to mess with Norman so he could be behind Green Goblin, but uh, why stop there? So limiting lol.
    Yeah I was thinking along those lines. What we saw was in fact the timeline that had already shifted and so on.

    It's a stretch to assume Spencer was going for something like that, but it at least fits better than the idea of him writing a weird retcon in a run largely devoted to fixing weird retcons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    This theory falls apart at the moment you realize that Mephisto is doing all of this to maybe stop Mayday from stopping him, 'cause he did jack **** to separate Spidey and MJ when he could've done more lol.

    But then again, OMD itself makes no sense even by Mephisto's usual deals...
    I mean, the kind of reality warping at play in OMD is too much for Mephisto as far as my understanding of cosmic Marvel goes. Makes you wonder, if they were adamant about the magic button having to be pressed, why they didn't go for a cosmic being that could actually do it and one that wasn't a Satan analogue.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webhead View Post
    Yeah I was thinking along those lines. What we saw was in fact the timeline that had already shifted and so on.

    It's a stretch to assume Spencer was going for something like that, but it at least fits better than the idea of him writing a weird retcon in a run largely devoted to fixing weird retcons.


    I mean, the kind of reality warping at play in OMD is too much for Mephisto as far as my understanding of cosmic Marvel goes. Makes you wonder, if they were adamant about the magic button having to be pressed, why they didn't go for a cosmic being that could actually do it and one that wasn't a Satan analogue.
    Loki owed Spider-Man a favor at the time. He (or she, at that point) could have done it.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webhead View Post
    Yeah I was thinking along those lines. What we saw was in fact the timeline that had already shifted and so on.

    It's a stretch to assume Spencer was going for something like that, but it at least fits better than the idea of him writing a weird retcon in a run largely devoted to fixing weird retcons.
    I guess that was done to explain why OMD happened to begin with, but, it just raises more questions than answers, because OMD just seemed like Mephisto was doing a shitty deal to some random hero he decided to torment just because, but now that we have the idea that either Spidey or Mayday will somehow defeat him once he conquers Earth, it's just baffling that he hasn't done more, he tormented random people more and he didn't even particularly care about 'em.

    I mean, the kind of reality warping at play in OMD is too much for Mephisto as far as my understanding of cosmic Marvel goes.
    Back in Clone Saga, there were plans to reveal either Judas Traveler or Scrier as Mephisto and that he was playing a cosmic game, and he'd send Ben back in time as a dumb time loop, because it was pointed out if it was someone else randomly sending him back in time, it'd break Marvel's rules of time travel.

    They didn't go for it obviously (And ironically enough, it was to not put someone like Mephisto in a Spidey story), but it seems that Mephisto is seen as strong enough to break some rules, but the upper limit of that is unknown, still questionable he managed to pull that nonsense in OMD to begin with anyways...

    Makes you wonder, if they were adamant about the magic button having to be pressed, why they didn't go for a cosmic being that could actually do it and one that wasn't a Satan analogue.
    Problem is, who else would even make a deal like that? The deal itself is already out of character for Mephisto given how tame it is, anyone else it'd be even worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Loki owed Spider-Man a favor at the time. He (or she, at that point) could have done it.
    And why would Loki want their marriage? And I doubt his power is strong enough to have changed Marvel's history even if he wanted to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    This theory falls apart at the moment you realize that Mephisto is doing all of this to maybe stop Mayday from stopping him, 'cause he did jack **** to separate Spidey and MJ when he could've done more lol.

    But then again, OMD itself makes no sense even by Mephisto's usual deals...
    I agree and stipulate upfront OMD is pure, unadulterated manure to begin, so it’s 99.987656% impossible to make logical story sense out it.

    But:

    Who says that Mephisto didn’t want both things: to feed on their love AND to stop Mayday/Annie/Claire/whoever from being born?

    I’m not up on my Mephisto lore, but I’m pretty sure overreaching when he makes a deal is one of his few soft spots. I can see him being greedy - he wants MJ and Peter to fall in love so he can feed on that love while at the same time preventing their child from being born. He definitely seems to be the type to ascribe to the have his cake and eat it too philosophy.

    So he separated them only when the odds of them having the daughter who would defeat them were becoming real (as they’d already had one baby in 616). No need to separate them before that; why not let their love grow over time so it makes a more fulfilling meal?

    That doesn’t stop the issue of how was Mephisto able to rewrite history in the first place — and if he can just rewrite history, then…why doesn’t he? Why is this reserved just for this one Spider-Man story? Aren’t there other times in history Mephisto would like to rearrange to suit his needs?
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 05-19-2022 at 03:50 PM.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    I agree and stipulate upfront OMD is pure, unadulterated manure to begin, so it’s 99.987656% impossible to make logical story sense out it.

    But:

    Who says that Mephisto didn’t want both things: to feed on their love AND to stop Mayday/Annie/Claire/whoever from being born?

    I’m not up on my Mephisto lore, but I’m pretty sure overreaching when he makes a deal is one of his few soft spots. I can see him being greedy - he wants MJ and Peter to fall in love so he can feed on that love while at the same time preventing their child from being born. He definitely seems to be the type to ascribe to the have his cake and eat it too philosophy.

    So he separated them only when the odds of them having the daughter who would defeat them were becoming real (as they’d already had one baby in 616). No need to separate them before that; why not let their love grow over time so it makes a more fulfilling meal?

    That doesn’t stop the issue of how was Mephisto able to rewrite history in the first place — and if he can just rewrite history, then…why doesn’t he? Why is this reserved just for this one Spider-Man story? Aren’t there other times in history Mephisto would like to rearrange to suit his needs?
    Mephisto did screw himself by pissing off the wrong people by being more evil than needed at times, and this greediness could kinda work too, but thing is, it'd once again make Mephisto be elevated too much, because now we have a situation where Mephisto could have separated Spidey and MJ permanently, but he didn't lol.

    OMD was a stupid idea to begin with and trying to give it too many explanations make it more questionable, and ironically enough, OMD itself already gave a decent enough explanation on why he wanted to do it, to hurt a "pure" hero like Spidey (Well, that and getting a "once in a lifetime love 'cause it'd make TOAA butthurt" lol), the problem is the way it changed the past, and how tame the deal was, so much for hurting him...

    At the very least, Spider-Man/Deadpool of all places did give it some effectiveness:





    (Spider-Man/Deadpool#5)



    https://i.imgur.com/sip716I.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/FyD4XXL.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/cYdXVsC.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/btBtz1y.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/nCtPJBC.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/dB2e3Dd.jpg

    (Spider-Man/Deadpool#18)

    While it's still giving Mephisto too much control over Spidey's life, it's not going much further than that, using this on top of "Spider-Man or one of his infinite daughters will beat my ass" and say that Mephisto could do more to torment him but doesn't just because, eh... Again, over explaining OMD just makes it weirder.
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 05-19-2022 at 04:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Mephisto did screw himself by pissing off the wrong people by being more evil than needed at times, and this greediness could kinda work too, but thing is, it'd once again make Mephisto be elevated too much, because now we have a situation where Mephisto could have separated Spidey and MJ permanently, but he didn't lol.

    OMD was a stupid idea to begin with and trying to give it too many explanations make it more questionable, and ironically enough, OMD itself already gave a decent enough explanation on why he wanted to do it, to hurt a "pure" hero like Spidey (Well, that and getting a "once in a lifetime love 'cause it'd make TOAA butthurt" lol), the problem is the way it changed the past, and how tame the deal was, so much for hurting him...

    At the very least, Spider-Man/Deadpool of all places did give it some effectiveness:





    (Spider-Man/Deadpool#5)



    https://i.imgur.com/sip716I.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/FyD4XXL.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/cYdXVsC.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/btBtz1y.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/nCtPJBC.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/dB2e3Dd.jpg

    (Spider-Man/Deadpool#18)

    While it's still giving Mephisto too much control over Spidey's life, it's not going much further than that, using this on top of "Spider-Man or one of his infinite daughters will beat my ass" and say that Mephisto could do more to torment him but doesn't just because, eh... Again, over explaining OMD just makes it weirder.
    Joe Kelly wrote the s*** out of that, though it having been so long since I originally read and reread that arc . . . I did not remember that Spider-Man was basically intending to die with Itsy Bitsy because Mephisto's speech about him being empty really got to him, even if he didn't remember why he was feeling that emptiness in the first place.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #44
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    Joe Kelly was on my wish list of ASM writers
    (Grim Hunt notwithstanding)

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    Joe Kelly was on my wish list of ASM writers
    (Grim Hunt notwithstanding)
    Yeah, fair enough. In retrospect, Grim Hunt did live up to the name, but not in a way that was necessarily all that good.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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