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  1. #106
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    Kaine was murdering people up to BND, and suddenly he helped in a very contrived way in Grim Hunt and all is forgotten.

  2. #107
    Spectacular Member JustLuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Pretty sure Spider Gwen lasted more then two years as did Kaine.
    Kaine´s Scarlet Spider series and Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider lasted around the same time. Exactly the same time actually, ending at #25. Both lasted longer than Superior Spider-Man volume 2 though LMAOOO

  3. #108
    Spectacular Member JustLuke's Avatar
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    Anyways, while I understand where everyone is coming from with Kaine´s redemption being contrived, I personally loved Christopher Yost´s Scarlet Spider and all the development he did with Kaine and am sad that he´s gone. Same with Aracley. I do agree though that the Kaine-ifcation of Ben Reilly is unnecessary and overall has been taken too far, even though I´m personally fine with giving Ben more of an edge than Peter.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Pretty sure Spider Gwen lasted more then two years as did Kaine.


    Kaine's lasted i believe 27 or 28 issues and i admittedly don't follow Spider Gwen so i'm not certain exactly how long it lasted but i'm willing to guess it was somwehere in the range of 24-30 issues.


    We can sit here and quibble about the exact number of issues these runs are lasting but the point is give or take a couple issues they're roughly all lasting about two years.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by classicgmer View Post
    Kaine's lasted i believe 27 or 28 issues and i admittedly don't follow Spider Gwen so i'm not certain exactly how long it lasted but i'm willing to guess it was somwehere in the range of 24-30 issues.


    We can sit here and quibble about the exact number of issues these runs are lasting but the point is give or take a couple issues they're roughly all lasting about two years.
    And Kaine had a hot creative team at the helm. Yost and Stegman

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Pretty sure Spider Gwen lasted more then two years as did Kaine.
    Kaine’s SS ended on #25. I know because I own it. Ben’s series also ended on #25. So the exact same lol. Kaine’s series was much better, but that’s due to the writing not the character.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Kaine’s SS ended on #25. I know because I own it. Ben’s series also ended on #25. So the exact same lol. Kaine’s series was much better, but that’s due to the writing not the character.
    It was Yost at the top of his game

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    It was Yost at the top of his game
    Yes, it’s one of my favorite runs of all time (well, the first two thirds anyway). This, Fraction’s ‘Hawkeye’, Jason Aaron’s ‘Punisher’, Waid’s ‘Daredevil.’ The early 2010s was a great time for Marvel books.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLuke View Post
    Anyways, while I understand where everyone is coming from with Kaine´s redemption being contrived, I personally loved Christopher Yost´s Scarlet Spider and all the development he did with Kaine and am sad that he´s gone. Same with Aracley. I do agree though that the Kaine-ifcation of Ben Reilly is unnecessary and overall has been taken too far, even though I´m personally fine with giving Ben more of an edge than Peter.
    I am absolutely all for more Kaine. Even though I wasn't such a fan of his Scarlet Spider run and I think how he was turned from villain to Hero was a bit weak I love the character and think he does deserve redemption. Or at least the chance to spend his life seeking it. I also love his embracing of the Scarlet Spider mantle where for Ben it was something he was saddled with and never wanted and never liked.

    The characters are so different and unique from one another as evidenced by the Lost Years, one of my all time favorites. There is plenty of meat on the storytelling bone for both Ben and Kaine. The relationship between the characters has never been fully explored even in the Lost Years and Redemption. It certainly wasn't given a fair shake in the previous Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider book.

    There's so much that can be done with Kaine and Ben individually and together and also with Peter. We've not had a real story about Peter having to confront and take responsibility for the fact that there are copies of himself running around that were made explicitly to mess with him. We've also not been shown a proper Ben and Kaine coming to terms with one another post villain turns for both of them.

    There are no bad characters just bad writers.

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  10. #115
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    I think ideally Ben is either a side character in a ongoing or the main character in a mini series.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Kaine is a different character. Kaine is not Ben. I think there’s room for both and it’s a shame Kaine has been sidelined in recent years, but obviously I’m in the minority here. Seems a lot of people are out for Ben’s blood these days; that fault lies with how he’s been handled since he was brought back, not with the character itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    Kaine redemption was too easy. He was a murderer tha made Ben's life hell and never apologized properly
    Quote Originally Posted by JustLuke View Post
    Anyways, while I understand where everyone is coming from with Kaine´s redemption being contrived, I personally loved Christopher Yost´s Scarlet Spider and all the development he did with Kaine and am sad that he´s gone. Same with Aracley. I do agree though that the Kaine-ifcation of Ben Reilly is unnecessary and overall has been taken too far, even though I´m personally fine with giving Ben more of an edge than Peter.
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterC View Post
    There's so much that can be done with Kaine and Ben individually and together and also with Peter. We've not had a real story about Peter having to confront and take responsibility for the fact that there are copies of himself running around that were made explicitly to mess with him. We've also not been shown a proper Ben and Kaine coming to terms with one another post villain turns for both of them.

    There are no bad characters just bad writers.
    I think Ben and Kaine have a lot to offer as characters, and I can readily admit that I don't think Marvel has always handled them properly.

    To my mind, Kaine's modern stories have succeeded with fans more so than Ben's because the writers haven't "added" anything to Kaine: he's simply been the messed-up clone, given a second chance at being a man and a hero. Whereas Ben, for whatever reason, isn't seen as "enough." To me, being "the perfect clone of Spider-Man" is enough, but Marvel doesn't seem to believe that that's a strong enough hook -- so he's become a mastermind villain, then a crazy hero, and now potentially a man with his memories and personality erased. They keep pitching Ben stories that rely on some "high concept" rather than just letting him be what he is.

    Hopefully they'll eventually learn that Ben is just fine as a character and doesn't need anything extra to make him work.

    -Pav, who needs to get back to work...
    You were Spider-Man then. You and Peter had agreed on it. But he came back right when you started feeling comfortable.

    You know what it means when he comes back
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    "You're not the better one, Peter. You're just older."

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  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterC View Post
    I am absolutely all for more Kaine. Even though I wasn't such a fan of his Scarlet Spider run and I think how he was turned from villain to Hero was a bit weak I love the character and think he does deserve redemption. Or at least the chance to spend his life seeking it. I also love his embracing of the Scarlet Spider mantle where for Ben it was something he was saddled with and never wanted and never liked.

    The characters are so different and unique from one another as evidenced by the Lost Years, one of my all time favorites. There is plenty of meat on the storytelling bone for both Ben and Kaine. The relationship between the characters has never been fully explored even in the Lost Years and Redemption. It certainly wasn't given a fair shake in the previous Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider book.

    There's so much that can be done with Kaine and Ben individually and together and also with Peter. We've not had a real story about Peter having to confront and take responsibility for the fact that there are copies of himself running around that were made explicitly to mess with him. We've also not been shown a proper Ben and Kaine coming to terms with one another post villain turns for both of them.

    There are no bad characters just bad writers.

    Screenshot_20220303-212829_Samsung Internet.jpg
    Mr. DeMatteis said in an interview that he would like to write a story about Peter, Ben and Kain. It does not bother him if this story takes place in the present, and not in the era of the clone saga. I hope Marvel allows him to write this story, it will be a gift to all Spider Brothers fans. Amazing Spider-Man, Sensational Spider-Man and Scarlet Spider.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    I think Ben and Kaine have a lot to offer as characters, and I can readily admit that I don't think Marvel has always handled them properly.

    To my mind, Kaine's modern stories have succeeded with fans more so than Ben's because the writers haven't "added" anything to Kaine: he's simply been the messed-up clone, given a second chance at being a man and a hero. Whereas Ben, for whatever reason, isn't seen as "enough." To me, being "the perfect clone of Spider-Man" is enough, but Marvel doesn't seem to believe that that's a strong enough hook -- so he's become a mastermind villain, then a crazy hero, and now potentially a man with his memories and personality erased. They keep pitching Ben stories that rely on some "high concept" rather than just letting him be what he is.

    Hopefully they'll eventually learn that Ben is just fine as a character and doesn't need anything extra to make him work.

    -Pav, who needs to get back to work...

    Part of me thinks they're going to end up leaving Ben as an amnesic in an attempt to set him up all over again for a path of self discovery and try to recapture some of the magic that was the lost years. It could be seen as character regression i'm sure but it could also be seen as a back to basics approach for Ben.

    Marvel i believe is doing the same type of thing for Ghost Rider/Johnny Blaze with the newest volume that just launched and from what i've seen people have been pretty receptive to it so maybe something similar for Ben would be the best path going forward for now.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by classicgmer View Post
    Part of me thinks they're going to end up leaving Ben as an amnesic in an attempt to set him up all over again for a path of self discovery and try to recapture some of the magic that was the lost years. It could be seen as character regression i'm sure but it could also be seen as a back to basics approach for Ben.

    Marvel i believe is doing the same type of thing for Ghost Rider/Johnny Blaze with the newest volume that just launched and from what i've seen people have been pretty receptive to it so maybe something similar for Ben would be the best path going forward for now.
    I love Ben, but I would not spend money on a book starring a spider-powered amnesiac calling himself “Chasm.”

    Ben is a personality. If the personality is wiped, what’s the point?

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    I love Ben, but I would not spend money on a book starring a spider-powered amnesiac calling himself “Chasm.”

    Ben is a personality. If the personality is wiped, what’s the point?


    Well # 1 calling him "Chasm" would be idiotic so i hope that doesn't happen and # 2 i suppose the thinking on Marvel's part would be to again take him on that journey of trying to figure out who he is and trying to carve out his own path like he had to in the lost years.


    Like you i'd rather he retain all his memories and personality but Marvel editorial have made it clear they think he's too similar to Peter that way so i doubt they'll allow him to continue on the way most of us would prefer.

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