Pre-COIE Earth-One Superman, Post-COIE Superman, and New 52 Superman - same entity?

[Buried Alien]

From your point of view, are the Pre-COIE Earth-One Superman (Silver/Bronze Age), Post-COIE Superman, and New 52 Superman the same entity thrice transformed by reality-warping cosmic events, or are they three separate entities...such as Kal-L of Pre-COIE Earth-Two or Calvin Ellis/Kalel Superman of Earth-23 (e.g. "President Superman") are?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Sacred Knight]

Same entity transformed, in my mind. I go a step further and apply the same idea toward the original Earth One, post-Crisis Earth, New Earth, and Earth-0.

[bat39]

If you 'follow the money'...yeah, they are basically the same entity.

E1 Superman's history was altered by the after-effects of COIE to become Byrne Superman. Byrne Superman was altered by the Futuresmiths(?) to become Birthright Superman. Birthright Superman was altered by Alex Luthor's tampering in IC to become New Earth Superman. And New Earth Superman was altered by Flashpoint to become New 52 Superman.

[Terok Nor]

There's a form or role of Superman, but every generation's Superman is his own animal. I look at it the same way I look at alt-universe Supermans, or the way Moore saw it in Supreme. Each one is an incarnation of the same spirit-- distinct, but related.

[Lax]

I see it as pretty much the same universe that's been reality warped repeatedly.

Superman, Wonder Woman, everyone and everything gets affected to varying degrees.

[UltraWoman]

I see it as pretty much the same universe that's been reality warped repeatedly.

Superman, Wonder Woman, everyone and everything gets affected to varying degrees.

That sounds pretty decent. The only thing is, wouldn't that make it it's own animal separate from any of them?

[Jim Kelly]

Let's put it this way. If I lived in one of these fictional worlds and I saw my Superman my whole life and then I had the chance to visit another fictional world and see their Superman, then to me it would be quite clear that they are different people despite being very similar.

Let's say I met someone who was the counterpart of my brother on one of these worlds. He might look just like my brother and act just like him, but I would know in my heart of hearts that this guy just isn't my brother.

But that's fiction.

I don't live in a fictional world. I live in the real world and I can see the history of the character and I know why changes in the character were made. So from my point of view, I see that Superman isn't a real entity. Superman is just an idea created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster and published by DC. And that idea has been warped and twisted over more than 75 years, but DC still calls this idea "Superman" and holds certain trademark rights. The fictional explanations for those changes are simply fictional and don't represent the reality of the situation.

[Lax]

That sounds pretty decent. The only thing is, wouldn't that make it it's own animal separate from any of them?

I suppose that depends on how you look at it. Yes, no, maybe a bit of both.

I see it as reality warping somewhat similar to the concept of reincarnation, except at the universal level. It still has the same old soul/characters it always had, but after a reincarnation/retcon or two, it's now adopted a new body/setting.

Some traits of the previous life/universe were retained, others are lost during the transition point.

[Minerboh]

I am not sure but i do believe that pre Flashpoint and New 52 Superman is the same entity.

[Lax]

The fictional explanations for those changes are simply fictional and don't represent the reality of the situation.

Kind of goes without saying don't you think? I mean, yeah, there was never any "reality" to the situation to begin with, but analyzing it like that renders the question moot.

I imagine the OP wants us to indulge the question in the interest of having fun.

[Jim Kelly]

The thing about things that go without saying is they go without saying. And the longer we don't say them, the further we get away from those things that go without saying. The OP started with "From your point of view . . ." That's where he put me on a different foot, because I started to think what is my point of view? I'm not a fictional character. My real point of view knows all those things that go without saying and that leads me down a different track then maybe the OP was hoping for.

[Lax]

The thing about things that go without saying is they go without saying. And the longer we don't say them, the further we get away from those things that go without saying. The OP started with "From your point of view . . ." That's where he put me on a different foot, because I started to think what is my point of view? I'm not a fictional character. My real point of view knows all those things that go without saying and that leads me down a different track then maybe the OP was hoping for.

Ah.

You took that phase more literally while I saw it as a figure of speech.

[Jim Kelly]

I think this is why Clark Kent keeps winking at me. Because he knows that I know something that nobody else in the story knows.

[Joe Acro]

I think each one is their own separate character. COIE certainly makes the argument that Earth-One Superman morphs into Post-COIE Superman, by virtue of him returning to Earth and his memories slowly shifting to match the new continuity (if I recall the scene right), but it's possible a different cosmic effect was in the works.

Anyway, my position is that each universe between reboots is its own unique continuity that becomes (mostly) inaccessible to the next continuity. For example, Infinite Crisis seems to make it clear that Pre-Crisis Earth-Two existed and the universe attached to it still exists, since Wonder Woman was able to appear under a mission from the Earth-2 Greek gods. Peter David's Supergirl suggests that Earth-One existed on its own as well, since the original Earth-One Supergirl appeared in the comic for a brief period. This seems to mean that the pre-COIE universes are still accessible by later continuities, just under very rare and unusual circumstances.

So I would argue Earth-One Superman, Post-COIE Superman, Post-Zero Hour Superman, Post-Infinite Crisis Superman, and Post-Flashpoint Superman are all different characters.

[LoneNecromancer]

They're canonically warped, aren't they? But I think of them as three different characters, with Post COIE being the largely different one and New 52 being a younger modern version of Pre COIE.