Satisfying Ending For Claremont's X-Men Saga

[charliehustle415]

Hey y'all,

So after leaving the current X-Men run I decided to slowly make my way through Clarmenont's Saga.

I had a question for the real old heads who have much more knowledge on the subject than I.

Where do you think Claremont's X-Men run ends in a satisfying way. Where do you think is the fitting end for his epic? Where is Clarmeont's denouement?

Is it issue #3 with Lee, is it Revolution, X-Men The End or X-Men Forever?

Give me all your answers because I'll read them all.

[Frobisher]

I don't really like how X-Men 1-3 just dumps Mags back in a bad place, and it's basically one of those Al Qaeda hostage videos in comic form, but it's probably the best ending we're going to get. The end of his main run is all the build-up to Mutant Wars, and then it just suddenly fizzles out on Muir Island. Muir Island is Lord Claremont's Waterloo.

[jwatson]

i would say Xtreme Xmen with Revolutiion being a direct continuation that just didn't have enough time. i remember his uncanny that sticks out in particular with viper and them.

[charliehustle415]

I don't really like how X-Men 1-3 just dumps Mags back in a bad place, and it's basically one of those Al Qaeda hostage videos in comic form, but it's probably the best ending we're going to get. The end of his main run is all the build-up to Mutant Wars, and then it just suddenly fizzles out on Muir Island. Muir Island is Lord Claremont's Waterloo.

Any idea why it fizzled out or was it the Young Guns (tm) that kinda hurried him off the title?

i would say Xtreme Xmen with Revolutiion being a direct continuation that just didn't have enough time. i remember his uncanny that sticks out in particular with viper and them.

Is there enough connective tissue from his original run and the new ones to consider it a continuous run?

I'm afraid to read the later series' because of all the status quo changes in the decade between his runs.

[KylunFan]

Inferno is a great culmination of plot points, storylines and character arcs. It serves as a more satisfying ending then the actual ending of his initial run. If you want a satisfying conclusion that's the best place to stop.

There are some great Claremont stories post-Inferno but they all feel like they are leading up to an interesting finale with the Shadow King, that we never get. Claremont leaves/ is forced from Uncanny and the Muir Island Saga wraps up weirdly with fill-in writers and editorial pushes him to bring Xavier back and reunite the team for the big X.Men Vol.2 launch.

[charliehustle415]

Inferno is a great culmination of plot points, storylines and character arcs. It serves as a more satisfying ending then the actual ending of his initial run. If you want a satisfying conclusion that's the best place to stop.

There are some great Claremont stories post-Inferno but they all feel like they are leading up to an interesting finale with the Shadow King, that we never get. Claremont leaves/ is forced from Uncanny and the Muir Island Saga wraps up weirdly with fill-in writers and editorial pushes him to bring Xavier back and reunite the team for the big X.Men Vol.2 launch.

Ohhh interesting, so Inferno is a good ending to everything that began in Giant Size?

Would you say post Inferno continues with the threads pre-Inferno or would you say it's a pretty clean break?

[KylunFan]

Ohhh interesting, so Inferno is a good ending to everything that began in Giant Size?

Would you say post Inferno continues with the threads pre-Inferno or would you say it's a pretty clean break?

There's 3 or 4 ways you could logically split up his run.

1) Giant-Sized - Dark Phoenix Saga/ Days of Future Past - Which pretty satisfyingly ties-up the first era of the All-New, All-Different Team.

2) Post Byrne - Trial of Magneto - Kitty joins the team properly/Rogue/Rachel, The Brood Saga, Paul Smith era & culminates with a big change of who's running the Xavier Institute.

3) Crossover Era - Mutant Massacre/ Fall of the Mutants/ Infeno - Ouback Era

Inferno is the last proper ending point as it ties up the long running Marauders plot, Madelyne Pryor's story, other spin-off stories like Illyana's in New Mutants & big X-Factor plotlines. It won't tie up everything- the team are still operating in the Outback for example, but it's last time you get a big pay-off/ resolution to Claremont's long-game style of writing.

4) Siege Perilous/ No Team Era/ Muir Island Saga/ X-Men Vol.2 #1-3

A lot of the plotlines introduced post-Inferno do conclude, but many are done by other writers and it's clearly not the original plan in a lot of cases.

You'd have to read the spin-offs like New Mutants, X-Factor & Exaclibur to get a full conclusion to all plot threads and even then somethings will go unresolved for many years after Claremont left (if at all). It's just his style of writing.

Hope that's vaguely helpful rather than more confusing...

[sunofdarkchild]

Ohhh interesting, so Inferno is a good ending to everything that began in Giant Size?

Would you say post Inferno continues with the threads pre-Inferno or would you say it's a pretty clean break?

Even Inferno isn't 100% a culmination of everything he was building towards. Half of it was last-minute changes because of editorial decisions he hated, and half of it wasn't written by him. Claremont was against Jean being brought back and almost quit the X-Men books entirely when that happened. He wanted Cyclops to semi-retire to be with Madelyn and baby Nathan and Scott running off because he heard Jean came back made him hate Cyclops as a character. Madelyn became the villainous Goblin Queen to get Cyclops off the hook and justify him and Jean getting back together. The other half, which was supposed to be the culmination of Magik's story, was ruined by Louise Simonson throwing out all of her character development and the replacement of Belasco with a brand new demon called N'Astirh for no reason. Claremont didn't get to write that part of the story, so Illyana's story was more cut off than concluded. If the story had truly been what Claremont had been building towards the entire Madelyn clone plot would not exist, Belasco would have been the main villain, and Sinister would either have had a very different role in the story or have been saved for a later story.

Claremont began losing control of the X-Men around issue 200 when the decision was made to bring Jean back and launch X-Factor over his objections. He left New Mutants after issue 54 as well, possibly with the intention to return but he never did. Once Jim Lee came on as the main artist his opinions and desires for the direction of the stories were given far more weight by editor Bob Harris who wanted to rehash old stories rather than tell new ones, and that's why Claremont ended up leaving.

In terms of a conclusion that was truly Claremont's and not an attempt to fix editorial decisions he hated I'd go with the Uncanny X-Men issues of Fall of the Mutants. If Uncanny never continued after that it would have been a very definitive ending.

[charliehustle415]

There's 3 or 4 ways you could logically split up his run.

1) Giant-Sized - Dark Phoenix Saga/ Days of Future Past - Which pretty satisfyingly ties-up the first era of the All-New, All-Different Team.

2) Post Byrne - Trial of Magneto - Kitty joins the team properly/Rogue/Rachel, The Brood Saga, Paul Smith era & culminates with a big change of who's running the Xavier Institute.

3) Crossover Era - Mutant Massacre/ Fall of the Mutants/ Infeno - Ouback Era

Inferno is the last proper ending point as it ties up the long running Marauders plot, Madelyne Pryor's story, other spin-off stories like Illyana's in New Mutants & big X-Factor plotlines. It won't tie up everything- the team are still operating in the Outback for example, but it's last time you get a big pay-off/ resolution to Claremont's long-game style of writing.

4) Siege Perilous/ No Team Era/ Muir Island Saga/ X-Men Vol.2 #1-3

A lot of the plotlines introduced post-Inferno do conclude, but many are done by other writers and it's clearly not the original plan in a lot of cases.

You'd have to read the spin-offs like New Mutants, X-Factor & Exaclibur to get a full conclusion to all plot threads and even then somethings will go unresolved for many years after Claremont left (if at all). It's just his style of writing.

Hope that's vaguely helpful rather than more confusing...

That's super helpful, thanks!

I never really knew that Inferno was Claremont's endgame so it's good to know. In the past I stopped reading his run right after Days of Future Past, now knowing this I'll keep going.

Even Inferno isn't 100% a culmination of everything he was building towards. Half of it was last-minute changes because of editorial decisions he hated, and half of it wasn't written by him. Claremont was against Jean being brought back and almost quit the X-Men books entirely when that happened. He wanted Cyclops to semi-retire to be with Madelyn and baby Nathan and Scott running off because he heard Jean came back made him hate Cyclops as a character. Madelyn became the villainous Goblin Queen to get Cyclops off the hook and justify him and Jean getting back together. The other half, which was supposed to be the culmination of Magik's story, was ruined by Louise Simonson throwing out all of her character development and the replacement of Belasco with a brand new demon called N'Astirh for no reason. Claremont didn't get to write that part of the story, so Illyana's story was more cut off than concluded. If the story had truly been what Claremont had been building towards the entire Madelyn clone plot would not exist, Belasco would have been the main villain, and Sinister would either have had a very different role in the story or have been saved for a later story.

Claremont began losing control of the X-Men around issue 200 when the decision was made to bring Jean back and launch X-Factor over his objections. He left New Mutants after issue 54 as well, possibly with the intention to return but he never did. Once Jim Lee came on as the main artist his opinions and desires for the direction of the stories were given far more weight by editor Bob Harris who wanted to rehash old stories rather than tell new ones, and that's why Claremont ended up leaving.

In terms of a conclusion that was truly Claremont's and not an attempt to fix editorial decisions he hated I'd go with the Uncanny X-Men issues of Fall of the Mutants. If Uncanny never continued after that it would have been a very definitive ending.

I hear a little about the behind the scenes shenanigans with Claremont (X-Men editorial really like to screw their talent, don't they?), but I didn't know it was to this extent.

I do wonder what was Claremont's thinking about the X-Men and where he wanted to finish, thought.

Nevertheless, I'll definitely read Fall of the Mutants and see what's up thanks!

[Nicoclaws]

Honestly the best part of Claremont's writing is the evoluting and never-ending story. So I'd say that Inferno, even despite the issues mentioned, is a good epic culmination of his X-men run. The rest, while sometimes good, kinda fizzles away because of too many interferences imo. Even the Revolution/and X-treme were a bit directionless, while fun.

[JB]

Whenever I go through Claremont's run every few years, I tend to end at X-Tinction Agenda because it reunites a lot of the characters and I've always loved that event.

[mbm721]

Nice yeah I tend to agree with this and ending at Xtinction Agenda. You could just skip to x-men 1-3 after it just know that Xavier back but again that’s almost like a new start and not an ending lol. The Claremont saga (94-279) is the best!

[charliehustle415]

Whenever I go through Claremont's run every few years, I tend to end at X-Tinction Agenda because it reunites a lot of the characters and I've always loved that event.

Nice yeah I tend to agree with this and ending at Xtinction Agenda. You could just skip to x-men 1-3 after it just know that Xavier back but again that’s almost like a new start and not an ending lol. The Claremont saga (94-279) is the best!

Ohhh okay another great suggestion.

It's cool seeing different interpretations, I suppose that's why he's so great.

[ERON]

Whenever I re-read Claremont's run, I usually either end with Paul Smith's last issue or soldier on through to X-Men #3. Those John Romita Jr. issues are a tough slog, though.

[Rift]

How can any ending be satisfying without Hellion? Claremont didn't write New Mutants vol 2, but I'd say to read that as an ending or epilogue. You can be satisfied knowing the future is safe in the hands of Hellion and the next generation.