Can you be a fan of a franchise is your dont like the source?

[thwhtGuardian]

Ive only seen Season one of Discovery so I diodnt know if the Woke everyone was talking about was because the captain is a black female or if there was more to it. Like if they were really pushing things.

The rule of thumb is if they use the word "woke" as a complaint chances are high the complaint is bogus, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[MRP]

The rule of thumb is if they use the word "woke" as a complaint chances are high the complaint is bogus, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

When was Trek not "woke"? I mean in the 60s Uhura was a black female bridge officer which was unheard of and the show featured the first interracial kiss on television. And it continued in every iteration on television after that. Pushing equality/diversity has been part of Trek's DNA from the beginning.

-M

[thwhtGuardian]

When was Trek not "woke"? I mean in the 60s Uhura was a black female bridge officer which was unheard of and the show featured the first interracial kiss on television. And it continued in every iteration on television after that. Pushing equality/diversity has been part of Trek's DNA from the beginning.

-M

Exactly. I don't get it.

[MyriVerse]

When was Trek not "woke"? I mean in the 60s Uhura was a black female bridge officer which was unheard of and the show featured the first interracial kiss on television. And it continued in every iteration on television after that. Pushing equality/diversity has been part of Trek's DNA from the beginning.

-M

Well, Kirk being a skeevy 23rd century Bond thoroughly offset any wokeness. While Uhura was a small step in the right direction, she was just a secretary that really never did much.

I still consider myself a Trekker, but I find about 75% of TOS almost unwatchable these days for various reasons. So sure. You don't have to like everything to be a fan of something. I consider myself a fan of Dr. Who, but I cannot stand about 40% of the Doctors.

[Johnathan]

STARSHIP TROOPERS is a good example, but it depends on what you define as the "source." I'm not a big fan of the book - it is a good pulp SF story and fortunately fairly quick read, but there was something much more interesting in the movie. If you think of the movie as the source material, I am really into that, but not the original book.

Similarly with the WARHAMMER 40K series. I tried to get into the game - and videogames based on the game - but I can't really get into them the way I got into STARCRAFT back in the day. BUT the many fictional works based on the 40K game - all influenced by other sources like DUNE and STARSHIP TROOPERS - are really entertaining for me. In fact, I think WH40k has more potential than a lot of the works that influenced it. You got military action, political drama and cosmic horror all tied into one piece.

HARRY POTTER -- what is the source? The novels or the movies? I think there is a large segment of HP fandom that would fall asleep reading the novels. The movies have their own fans.

[Mister Mets]

When was Trek not "woke"? I mean in the 60s Uhura was a black female bridge officer which was unheard of and the show featured the first interracial kiss on television. And it continued in every iteration on television after that. Pushing equality/diversity has been part of Trek's DNA from the beginning.

-M

One complicating factor is that what counted as progressive in the 60s is normal now. I'm sure there are plenty of Star Trek fans who don't like references to progressive politics in the shows, and who don't recognize the significance of the fist interracial kiss on television because they think it's ordinary.

However, it is also possible for a fan to believe that the ideal politics is somewhere between what was considered woke in the 1960s, and what would not be considered progressive in 2022.

[Jim Kelly]

When did people start using woke as an expression in that way? It seems to me this was fairly recent and it was used by progressive folk as a positive expression. Only later did people on the opposite side take it on and make it into a slur (it's strange how they keep doing that and getting away with it). It doesn't make sense that they can put that expression onto something before it existed as a concept. I detest when language is retroactively applied to times before such language came into use.

[Crazy Diamond]

When did people start using woke as an expression in that way? It seems to me this was fairly recent and it was used by progressive folk as a positive expression. Only later did people on the opposite side take it on and make it into a slur (it's strange how they keep doing that and getting away with it). It doesn't make sense that they can put that expression onto something before it existed as a concept. I detest when language is retroactively applied to times before such language came into use.

Woke came from Black Americans and it means someone who is aware of how the world really works. Or someone who really knows what they're doing. Then it got co-opted and the rest is history.

[JackDaw]

HARRY POTTER -- what is the source? The novels or the movies? I think there is a large segment of HP fandom that would fall asleep reading the novels. The movies have their own fans.

Seriously??

I can’t think of a remotely credible argument to suggest the films are the source material.

[Zauriel]

I hardly enjoyed Pinocchio, but I did like Disney's animated adaptation of Pinocchio

[Jim Kelly]

Harry Potter might be the exception that proves the rule. I never read the books or saw the movies, but I know the books were a world-wide sensation. Not only did kids read them as they grew up with them, but their parents read them. And just random people read them. They are some of the best-selling books of all time, the reason J.K. Rowling is so enormously rich and powerful.

But it seems more normal for movies and T.V. shows based on books to gain a following--and a lot of people never bother to read the books. I doubt many fans of the James Bond movie bother to read the books. In the beginning, I think that the Bond books were a sensation and people like John F. Kennedy read them, which was why they made the movies. But the movies became a thing unto themselves and now are much bigger than the books.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I enjoy the Kingdom Hearts fanart/fanfiction more than the actual Kingdom Hearts story nowadays.

So yeah I think you could be a fan without enjoying the source materials.

[Johnathan]

Harry Potter might be the exception that proves the rule. I never read the books or saw the movies, but I know the books were a world-wide sensation. Not only did kids read them as they grew up with them, but their parents read them. And just random people read them. They are some of the best-selling books of all time, the reason J.K. Rowling is so enormously rich and powerful.

But it seems more normal for movies and T.V. shows based on books to gain a following--and a lot of people never bother to read the books. I doubt many fans of the James Bond movie bother to read the books. In the beginning, I think that the Bond books were a sensation and people like John F. Kennedy read them, which was why they made the movies. But the movies became a thing unto themselves and now are much bigger than the books.

Right, that's what I meant as well. Not that people who like the movies hate the books, but I think far more people have seen and enjoyed the movies than have read the books BUT I think it is very possible that a person that enjoys the movies could also not really get into the books as well.

Same for GAME OF THRONES on HBO or DUNE, LORD OF THE RINGS and THE HOBBIT movies, and as far as the MARVEL cinematic juggernaut, I would expect the vast majority of fans of the movies and television series, even kids, have never read a Marvel comic... or probably any comic book.

[ChrisIII]

I can understand why some Bond fans might not get Fleming. The books sort of read like a travelogue at times (In fact, one of Fleming's non-fiction books actually is a Travelogue!) and some of the more dated/controversial aspects of the older movies are even more so here. Also they're sparse on gadgets for fans of the movies.

[CaptCleghorn]

Right, that's what I meant as well. Not that people who like the movies hate the books, but I think far more people have seen and enjoyed the movies than have read the books BUT I think it is very possible that a person that enjoys the movies could also not really get into the books as well.

Same for GAME OF THRONES on HBO or DUNE, LORD OF THE RINGS and THE HOBBIT movies, and as far as the MARVEL cinematic juggernaut, I would expect the vast majority of fans of the movies and television series, even kids, have never read a Marvel comic... or probably any comic book.

I'll see that and raise you M*A*S*H. There are numerous TV fans, and only some of them know about or like the movie. Even fewer have knowledge of the Richard Hooker novel which was the original source.