Clea - Sorcerer Supreme of the Dark Dimension - Appreciation 2022

[4theEarth]

Oh yeah, and that's fine. I actually totally get where you're coming from though. Not all of the jokes land strongly in these Marvel movies and shows. I just like humor in superhero content. I quit watching superhero stuff for a while after viewing the Amazing Spider-Man movies. Those films had like NO sense of humor, and I thought to myself, these things are taking themselves WAY too seriously. I think what you object to is CRINGE humor and I absolutely agree with your dislike of that shit as well. But Marvel movies and television series are basically action comedies nowadays. And we can largely thank Whedon, Gunn and Waititi for that. I do think the winking and smirking at audiences by these Marvel characters CAN be a bit much sometimes though. They're trying to be cute, and I know that definitely turns off audiences sometimes.

In regards to Clea, I'm actually going to say that Marvel should follow the DCEU formula. Which is strange, because I REALLY hate the WB DC movies. I dunno, I think Harley Quinn and Wonder Woman were written really well and I was engaged by their stories. I can't really say Marvel Studios has done right by the women of THEIR cinematic universe, however. They feel like action figures to me, with pretty lame-ass personalities. I know Charlize can absolutely bring a unique energy to Clea, but I wouldn't mind it if she indulges in some juvenile humor from TIME TO TIME.

Are you referring to the Garfield spider-mans bc while the current stuff rolls right off of me it is slott style humor which has so many adult viewers, like my significant other, say please stop with the over caffeinated snark. For me that's the character and one of the many reasons I am not such a fan anymore. But having a whole Universe of such is well...tiresome and one note.

[Albert1981]

Are you referring to the Garfield spider-mans bc while the current stuff rolls right off of me it is slott style humor which has so many adult viewers, like my significant other, say please stop with the over caffeinated snark. For me that's the character and one of the many reasons I am not such a fan anymore. But having a whole Universe of such is well...tiresome and one note.

Yeah, I hated the Garfield movies. I quit watching superhero films for a while after seeing those. The humor was so dumb. And the flirty stuff with Gwen and Peter went on for too long and it wasn't cute at all to me. I like MCU humor.

[Clea]

What do you guys think of Wong's sudden embrace of "Peak TV" in the MCU? I thought he was really funny in the She-Hulk series. I can relate to him more because of his personal interests as opposed to his powers. He was way too serious in the MoM. Chill Stephen and chill Wong are great. The comics should absolutely follow suit.

To DigiCom and Clea,

Do you not like Marvel "banter and humor" because you don't find them funny and amusing? Or do you not like how they are executing that stuff? Because Thor's "I'll Call The Axe When You Call The Dentist" line in L&T was pure comedy gold in my opinion (even folks in that theater burst out laughing):

The MCU brand of bantering, quippy humor is so overplayed that it makes all of the characters sound alike. I understand all of the reasons why the MCU likes to intercut the action in their stories with humor. That's a perfectly valid way to brand and unify the MCU products so that they flow easily from one to the next for audience. But I don't like the fact that all of the characters share exactly the same sense of humor and quip constantly. That's just lazy writing, IMO. Comics and the MCU films are essentially repetitive and formulaic, but they could at least try to give each character a more unique voice. Someone's sense of humor (or lack thereof) reveals a lot about a person. When they all sound alike and joke alike, the characters just blend together into a dull mash.

I'm not sure I understand your question about Wong and Peak TV. Wong has a long history of watching and enjoying tv shows in the comics, so MCU Wong can chill and watch tv too, for all I care.

[Albert1981]

The MCU brand of bantering, quippy humor is so overplayed that it makes all of the characters sound alike. I understand all of the reasons why the MCU likes to intercut the action in their stories with humor. That's a perfectly valid way to brand and unify the MCU products so that they flow easily from one to the next for audience. But I don't like the fact that all of the characters share exactly the same sense of humor and quip constantly. That's just lazy writing, IMO. Comics and the MCU films are essentially repetitive and formulaic, but they could at least try to give each character a more unique voice. Someone's sense of humor (or lack thereof) reveals a lot about a person. When they all sound alike and joke alike, the characters just blend together into a dull mash.

I'm not sure I understand your question about Wong and Peak TV. Wong has a long history of watching and enjoying tv shows in the comics, so MCU Wong can chill and watch tv too, for all I care.

But this style of MCU "quippy banter" is DEFINITELY spreading throughout the entertainment industry. Because it's been a very successful formula for Disney for the past decade or so. I personally LOVE the latest trailer for the 2023 Dungeons And Dragons film:



I did not partake in Dungeons And Dragons growing up, but I absolutely recognize its MASSIVE influence in the fantasy genre. From what I understand, all the monsters and all the spells are accurate to the lore. But most important to ME, it looks and especially FEELS like a fantasy GotG flick. Plus there is definitely a lot of snarky "winking" where everybody doesn't seem to take the fantasy world setting seriously at all. Clearly Marvel's influence is strong here. I would MUCH rather watch something like Honor Among Thieves than the current HBO and Amazon stuff. So there's really no escaping the whole "banter" thing these days.

Hugh Grant took part in this project because he thought the script was hilarious:

https://screenrant.com/dungeons-drag...ast-explained/

Plus I'm sure you're aware that even the Star Wars and the DCEU franchises have gotten a helluva lot more funnier lately. Because like you said, audiences love that shit.

And oh yeah, I forgot that Wong loves watching television in the comic books. My bad.

[Albert1981]

Funny even the VIDEO GAME industry has embraced "quippy banter" recently as well. The dialogue in Square Enix's Forspoken latest trailer has had some interesting reactions to it:

https://www.ggrecon.com/articles/pla...poken-trailer/

https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/for...lash-dialogue/

A lot of gamers seem to blame "Marvel" and "Whedon" for the changing dialogue in fantasy RPGs lately. I actually like properties that DON'T take themselves too seriously, so I don't have a problem with "prose" like this:

"So let me get this straight"
"I'm seeing freaking dragons"
"And oh yeah I'm talking to a cuff"
"Yeah OK that is something I do now!"
"I do magic, kill jacked-up beasts — I’ll probably fly next.”

I have no problems with clever one-liners. I didn't read comics written by Bendis and watch Whedon's Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but I like their rapid-fire quippy dialogue a lot. I would take that content IN A HEARTBEAT over the ridiculous prose that has caused many a fantasy film to fail in the past.

Even Star Wars' The Rise of Skywalker's dialogue felt like something you would hear from a Marvel film:



I doubt Marvel will change its approach to banter anytime soon. In fact, it's possible OTHER franchises will adopt it as well.

[Steroid]

The MCU brand of bantering, quippy humor is so overplayed that it makes all of the characters sound alike. I understand all of the reasons why the MCU likes to intercut the action in their stories with humor. That's a perfectly valid way to brand and unify the MCU products so that they flow easily from one to the next for audience. But I don't like the fact that all of the characters share exactly the same sense of humor and quip constantly. That's just lazy writing, IMO. Comics and the MCU films are essentially repetitive and formulaic, but they could at least try to give each character a more unique voice. Someone's sense of humor (or lack thereof) reveals a lot about a person. When they all sound alike and joke alike, the characters just blend together into a dull mash.

I'm not sure I understand your question about Wong and Peak TV. Wong has a long history of watching and enjoying tv shows in the comics, so MCU Wong can chill and watch tv too, for all I care.

Completely agree that the comedy schtick is getting a bit much in the MCU. Humor is fine and all and works for a show like She-Hulk but it doesn't have to be in every project. Hell at what point in MOM would it have made sense for Wong to crack jokes for example?

[Clea]

Completely agree that the comedy schtick is getting a bit much in the MCU. Humor is fine and all and works for a show like She-Hulk but it doesn't have to be in every project. Hell at what point in MOM would it have made sense for Wong to crack jokes for example?

It's already a given that the MCU will continue to use quippy humor in all of their films for all of their characters. *shrugs* It doesn't even matter. I'd just like to see them be more nuanced about it, and give different characters different senses of humor, that's all. So far as Clea is concerned, it would make no sense at all to give her the same sense of humor as some teenaged/young adult earth superhero, but who knows what they'll do? Stephen Strange in the comics has a very different sense of humor from Stephen Strange in the movies. At the moment, it's a complete unknown (to me at least) how the MCU plans to portray Clea in any future film appearance.

[seccruz]

EEw35wGDN2TDyU4o9tnmM9.jpg
New Clea cover!

[Agent Z]

But this style of MCU "quippy banter" is DEFINITELY spreading throughout the entertainment industry.

Doesn't mean it works all or even most of the time. Nor does it mean it has to be applied to everyone like Clea.

[DigiCom]

EEw35wGDN2TDyU4o9tnmM9.jpg
New Clea cover!

I fear that STRANGE #10 may be the final issue, however:

STRANGE #10
JED MACKAY (W) • MARCELO FERREIRA (A) • Cover by Lee Garbett
Demonized Variant Cover by TBA • Classic Homage Variant Cover by IBAN COELLO
Games Variant Cover by NETEASE
SORCERERS SUPREME UNITE!
Clea and Stephen Strange team up to take down the Blasphemy Cartel and their dreaded super-powered weapon! But will two Sorcerers Supreme be enough for this final battle? And what will finally become of Stephen Strange by the end of it? As one chapter closes, a new one is about to begin in the house of Strange…
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

[Clea]

I fear that STRANGE #10 may be the final issue, however:

STRANGE #10
JED MACKAY (W) • MARCELO FERREIRA (A) • Cover by Lee Garbett
Demonized Variant Cover by TBA • Classic Homage Variant Cover by IBAN COELLO
Games Variant Cover by NETEASE
SORCERERS SUPREME UNITE!
Clea and Stephen Strange team up to take down the Blasphemy Cartel and their dreaded super-powered weapon! But will two Sorcerers Supreme be enough for this final battle? And what will finally become of Stephen Strange by the end of it? As one chapter closes, a new one is about to begin in the house of Strange…
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

Possibly the title will continue under the current name, just with both Stephen and Clea. Or, they could cancel this title and start a new Doctor Strange/Sorcerer Supreme title that is centered mainly on Stephen, with Clea in a secondary role / or.... who knows? Maybe Bats will end up being the new Sorcerer Supreme! I'd read that. LOL.

[Albert1981]

Doesn't mean it works all or even most of the time. Nor does it mean it has to be applied to everyone like Clea.

Humor is VERY subjective, so I get why some people would be enraged by Marvel's reliance on it in their movies and shows.. But I think you can understand why other Hollywood studios (and the entertainment industry worldwide as a whole) wants to emulate Marvel's humorous style of storytelling from the past decade. Because its success has been so unprecedented. I do feel that there is some weariness with that approach now (people really seemed to hate Thor 4's humor). I'm in the definite minority for liking it. I have no problem with folks like Daredevil and Abomination cracking jokes.

But let's not forget that LOTS of people also HATE the almost completely humorless approach that the two biggest fantasy shows on television are using for their storytelling right now:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...r-fantasy-epic

And I've already argued that "fantasy dialogue" in live-action content usually sounds TERRIBLE. And I'm glad plenty of people agree with me about that as well:

https://onlysky.media/ckaraman/rings...tasy-dialogue/

I thought Whedon's approach to writing superhero stories was totally refreshing. And I think it would be a mistake for Disney/Marvel to deviate from it.

[DigiCom]

Possibly the title will continue under the current name, just with both Stephen and Clea. Or, they could cancel this title and start a new Doctor Strange/Sorcerer Supreme title that is centered mainly on Stephen, with Clea in a secondary role / or.... who knows? Maybe Bats will end up being the new Sorcerer Supreme! I'd read that. LOL.

I'm down for Bats: Dogtor Strange.

(I'm thinking they may go for House of Strange or something like that, though.)

[Albert1981]

A recent (and extremely laudatory) review of the Marvel prose novel "Sisters of Sorcery" starring Clea has just been posted on the Cosmic Circus website.

https://www.thecosmiccircus.com/book...eila-rockwell/

I also read a brief (and glowing) review of Marsheila Rockwell's work on Amazon as well:

"A Love Letter to the Magical Women of Marvel:

The book is not only a thrilling adventure, but a deep dive into the lore of the Marvel Universe. Characters, Events, and Storylines are name-dropped, but not necessarily essential to understand the story.

It's a love letter to the magical women of Marvel and works on so many levels. Watching Margali Szardos and Agatha Harkness interact and make Clea tense is the kind of stuff you don't normally have the page space for in monthly comics. It works so well here.

I highly recommend it, and hope for another adventure from the magical corners of the Marvel Universe."

I had absolutely no idea CLEA of all people created a female version of the Silver Surfer (Ardina)?! WHAT?! This is incredible. Norrin Radd has ALWAYS been one of my favorite comic book characters of all-time, and I TOTALLY wasn't aware that this happened. Because Clea is not from Earth, but from another "dimension", I always considered her more of a Marvel cosmic character in the vein of Quasar, Adam Warlock and the Silver Silver (but posters on this thread already know my opinion about that). This story just confirms my beliefs. And I'm not sure Clea's even interacted with Szardos and Harkness in the comics either, much less lead a team of magical women with them on the roster before. I actually got into comic books by reading prose novels starring characters like Spider-Man, Daredevil and the Fantastic Four. Without art and music, readers are totally relying on the words of authors to tell stories so I find that kind of storytelling far more challenging for writers. This Clea book sounds very interesting. She definitely sounds a little bit less ruthless in this novel than she is in the comic books. She actually sounds a bit "uptight" to be honest.

I went to Google Books and read some of the text from the Sisters of Sorcery, and Clea's "thoughts" are pretty funny (from what I understand her friend, Patsy Walker, was injured pretty badly in the story):

"Patsy had suggested summoning a healer from amongst the Defenders or Avengers, but the only other individual Clea knew for certain could both heal with any ability and get here quickly was Norrin Radd, and the Silver Surfer was not taking her calls these days. He had still not forgiven her for plunging a knife into him to create Ardina, even though he acknowledged the necessity of it afterward. Clea supposed she couldn't blame him - she had literally stabbed him in the back."

I just wanna be on the record saying that I would rather have Clea be funny and charming in the MCU as opposed to being bland and bitchy. To have her lead a team of female magic users with different personalities and powers would be a unique MCU project for sure. But there's just too much going on in the MCU for that to happen.

[seccruz]

I fear that STRANGE #10 may be the final issue, however:

STRANGE #10
JED MACKAY (W) • MARCELO FERREIRA (A) • Cover by Lee Garbett
Demonized Variant Cover by TBA • Classic Homage Variant Cover by IBAN COELLO
Games Variant Cover by NETEASE
SORCERERS SUPREME UNITE!
Clea and Stephen Strange team up to take down the Blasphemy Cartel and their dreaded super-powered weapon! But will two Sorcerers Supreme be enough for this final battle? And what will finally become of Stephen Strange by the end of it? As one chapter closes, a new one is about to begin in the house of Strange…
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

Aw... That'd be a damn shame! This has been such a solid book!