Clea - Sorcerer Supreme of the Dark Dimension - Appreciation 2022

[DigiCom]

Wow, talk about clickbait.

It wouldn't shock me if the same writer wrote an article a year ago saying Clea was "problematic" in the MCU because she was Strange's lover as well as his apprentice.

[JudicatorPrime]

Wow, talk about clickbait.

It wouldn't shock me if the same writer wrote an article a year ago saying Clea was "problematic" in the MCU because she was Strange's lover as well as his apprentice.

I, too, would be surprised if no one raises any concerns over Stephen's "grooming" of Clea, should she make it to the MCU.

For the comic, though, that's all ancient history. I still hope to someday see Clea have her own limited series that has nothing to do with Stephen. But that may never happen.

[Clea]

Wow, talk about clickbait.

It wouldn't shock me if the same writer wrote an article a year ago saying Clea was "problematic" in the MCU because she was Strange's lover as well as his apprentice.

Right? Perhaps the writer will feel better if Clea spends next issue baking cookies and pulling a rabbit out of a hat to prove that she's still a nice girl.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Oh dear. Screenrant thinks that Clea is too violent and ruthless to appear in the MCU. In fact, they think she is "gruesome," lacks a moral code, and is too violent to last long in the role of Sorcerer Supreme in the comics.

https://screenrant.com/new-sorcerer-...iolent-killer/

I think it's too soon to judge MacKay's version of Clea and write her off as being too bloody-minded for Marvel, just based on one issue. She's just experienced the love of her life die three times and we have no idea what she's been through in the Dark Dimension in the last few years. She didn't seek out the role of Sorcerer Supreme of Earth. It was thrust upon her as Strange's dying wish. We don't yet know if MacKay is going to characterize her as being this violent as her default personality, or if he's showing a side a Clea that we only see when she has been pushed beyond her limits by emotional stress. For the most part in her history in Marvel, Clea has typically been portrayed as a kind and good person who wants to restore peace, harmony, and hope back to the Dark Dimension. She does have a bit of a temper though, and we have seen her react badly when attacked or threatened. We do know that she spent quite a long time in the Dark Dimension leading resistance fighters, but for the most part, we don't actually know what she's been through for the last several years simply because Marvel sidelined her into character limbo for a long time. I hope (and expect) MacKay to explore her as a character at a deeper level and not just have her smiting everyone in sight throughout this series.

Outside of Steve, most of the Marvel heroes are flawed characters. They'd be antiheroes so Clea would fit right in.

Plus the MCU would clean her up so it's not that big a deal

[Clea]

I, too, would be surprised if no one raises any concerns over Stephen's "grooming" of Clea, should she make it to the MCU.

For the comic, though, that's all ancient history. I still hope to someday see Clea have her own limited series that has nothing to do with Stephen. But that may never happen.

I would also love to see Clea have a series of her own that is just about her, too. I don't think that would have been possible before now for a host of reasons. Superhero comics have changed quite a lot since Clea's introduction back in 1960s. Clea spent several years in damsel-in-distress mode, which always annoyed me, btw. All of the icky arguments about Stephen 'grooming' her as if she was some sort of adolescent human ingenue and he was some sort of weird predator also annoyed the heck out me because they overlooked Clea's actual origin as a possibly immortal - or at least several thousands of years old - alien who descended from beings made of pure magical energy. She wasn't some naive teen in thrall to an older man. I'm glad that Marvel moved passed that 'student' phase and started portraying her as a powerful sorcerer/sorcercess in her own right, but that's right at the same time that Marvel kicked her off into character limbo because her Dark Dimension-based setting diverged too much from Stephen Strange's earth based stories. Marvel, and Marvel fandom, wanted stories about Stephen Strange, not Clea. I think if Marvel had tried to launch a series just about Clea, it would have failed. But now? Maybe Marvel readers would buy that book. If this Strange series does well, it will introduce Clea to contemporary readers who may not know much about her.

[DigiCom]

The more important fact, of course, is that the MCU almost NEVER uses the comics characters unchanged. So the fact that Clea is timid/naive/violent/cruel/whatever is pretty much irrelevant. It's like saying Falcon isn't suitable for the MCU because of "Snap Wilson".

[JudicatorPrime]

I would also love to see Clea have a series of her own that is just about her, too. I don't think that would have been possible before now for a host of reasons. Superhero comics have changed quite a lot since Clea's introduction back in 1960s. Clea spent several years in damsel-in-distress mode, which always annoyed me, btw. All of the icky arguments about Stephen 'grooming' her as if she was some sort of adolescent human ingenue and he was some sort of weird predator also annoyed the heck out me because they overlooked Clea's actual origin as a possibly immortal - or at least several thousands of years old - alien who descended from beings made of pure magical energy. She wasn't some naive teen in thrall to an older man. I'm glad that Marvel moved passed that 'student' phase and started portraying her as a powerful sorcerer/sorcercess in her own right, but that's right at the same time that Marvel kicked her off into character limbo because her Dark Dimension-based setting diverged too much from Stephen Strange's earth based stories. Marvel, and Marvel fandom, wanted stories about Stephen Strange, not Clea. I think if Marvel had tried to launch a series just about Clea, it would have failed. But now? Maybe Marvel readers would buy that book. If this Strange series does well, it will introduce Clea to contemporary readers who may not know much about her.

I had hoped after Clea first gained the Flames of Regency that she'd be set on her own path. Maybe get a limited series or two before getting her own title. Comics fandom was just beginning to enter its "bad girl" phase, so I figured they'd have to make her a bit edgier. But being partly Faltine, that could easily be pulled off in a credible way. But alas, nothing came of it. Or at least now it seems like Marvel is finally getting around to doing what they should have done decades ago. Oh well. Such is life as a Marvel reader.

I do hope that one day she regains the Flames of Regency. I very much liked the look and the fact that it set her on equal footing with the top practitioners of magic. I also like the idea of Dormammu being an eternal usurper and thorn in her side. Like many other narcissistic, overbearing, power mad, incessantly scheming, bat sh** crazy uncles.

[Devaishwarya]

That's such a beauty-full Paul Smith rendering.

[JudicatorPrime]

That's such a beauty-full Paul Smith rendering.

Indeed. Oddly enough, I didn't really care all that much for PS's pencils on Uncanny X-men back then, but I absolutely loved his work on Doctor Strange. Go figure.

[Clea]

The more important fact, of course, is that the MCU almost NEVER uses the comics characters unchanged. So the fact that Clea is timid/naive/violent/cruel/whatever is pretty much irrelevant. It's like saying Falcon isn't suitable for the MCU because of "Snap Wilson".

I agree. The MCU is owned by Disney. Should Clea ever appear in the MCU, she would likely be "plucky" and "brave" not casually murderous. If they are smart, the Disney/MCU version would skip over the whole 'student' thing and present her as a magic user who is practically (or entirely) equivalent to Strange already and let them meet as equals. Everything and everyone in the MCU is shinier and nicer and entirely inoffensive compared to the comics. And that's fine, actually. The MCU is pitched to a completely different global market than the comics are.

[Devaishwarya]

Indeed. Oddly enough, I didn't really care all that much for PS's pencils on Uncanny X-men back then, but I absolutely loved his work on Doctor Strange. Go figure.

I read and loved his UXM work first then read his Dr. Strange (long after) and was completely blown away.

[Iron Maiden]

Say what you will but Clea is not legitimately the Sorcerer Supreme until she passes the Trial of the Vishanti... I think this will come back to bite her at some point. I doubt the writer will ignore the history attached to it.

[DigiCom]

Say what you will but Clea is not legitimately the Sorcerer Supreme until she passes the Trial of the Vishanti... I think this will come back to bite her at some point. I doubt the writer will ignore the history attached to it.

The "Time of the Vishanti" only happens once every 100 years. She can worry about it later.

(Stephen gained the mantle when the Ancient One died, in 1973. So there IS precedent for her taking the title.)

[Agent Z]

Oh dear. Screenrant thinks that Clea is too violent and ruthless to appear in the MCU. In fact, they think she is "gruesome," lacks a moral code, and is too violent to last long in the role of Sorcerer Supreme in the comics.

https://screenrant.com/new-sorcerer-...iolent-killer/

I think it's too soon to judge MacKay's version of Clea and write her off as being too bloody-minded for Marvel, just based on one issue. She's just experienced the love of her life die three times and we have no idea what she's been through in the Dark Dimension in the last few years. She didn't seek out the role of Sorcerer Supreme of Earth. It was thrust upon her as Strange's dying wish. We don't yet know if MacKay is going to characterize her as being this violent as her default personality, or if he's showing a side a Clea that we only see when she has been pushed beyond her limits by emotional stress. For the most part in her history in Marvel, Clea has typically been portrayed as a kind and good person who wants to restore peace, harmony, and hope back to the Dark Dimension. She does have a bit of a temper though, and we have seen her react badly when attacked or threatened. We do know that she spent quite a long time in the Dark Dimension leading resistance fighters, but for the most part, we don't actually know what she's been through for the last several years simply because Marvel sidelined her into character limbo for a long time. I hope (and expect) MacKay to explore her as a character at a deeper level and not just have her smiting everyone in sight throughout this series.

Has this person watched an MCU movie or show? Nothing Clea did in this issue is out of the ordinary for protagonists like them. If audiences can still root for Scarlet Witch after whqt she did to Johannesburg and Westview, I think they can handle Clea killing a few supervillains.

This is as ridiculous as the pearl clutching over Falcon killing mercenaries.

[JudicatorPrime]

The "Time of the Vishanti" only happens once every 100 years. She can worry about it later.

(Stephen gained the mantle when the Ancient One died, in 1973. So there IS precedent for her taking the title.)

Agreed. I imagine with many practitioners of magic having "normal" human-like lifespans that the Vishanti must have known that the time period in between trials would see many claimants to the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme who never lived long enough to participate in the actual trials. The trials are just meant to be an open competition, but one would think that the Vishanti reserve the right to test any SS for worthiness at any time.