Clea - Sorcerer Supreme of the Dark Dimension - Appreciation 2022

[DigiCom]

Agreed. I imagine with many practitioners of magic having "normal" human-like lifespans that the Vishanti must have known that the time period in between trials would see many claimants to the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme who never lived long enough to participate in the actual trials. The trials are just meant to be an open competition, but one would think that the Vishanti reserve the right to test any SS for worthiness at any time.

Well, let's look at the facts. Despite the fact that Marvel keeps adding Sorcerers Supreme willy-nilly (which has led to Yao losing and regaining the title several times for no apparent reason) we've only seen the mantle pass a handful of times:

1. Marvel Premiere #10 (1973). The Ancient One dies, but passes the mantle to Stephen before he becomes "One With Eternity".
2. Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #61 (1994). Strange willingly passes the "mantle esoteric" to Salome (but keeps the Cloak & Eye).
3. Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #75 (1995). Strange regains the title when Salome is defeated. Note that at this time she "had the Vishanti's favor", but he had renounced their patronage. He was still the Sorcerer Supreme, though.
4. New Avengers #51 (2009). Stephen relinquishes the mantle due to the overuse of dark magic. The position is vacant until issue #54 when Jericho Drumm is appointed to the mantle.
5. [New Avengers v2 #6 (2010). Jericho sacrifices himself to defeat an apparently insane Agamotto. The mantle is vacant.
6. [New Avengers v2 #34 (2013). Agamotto gives the mantle back to Stephen.
(Note that 4-6 were all written by the same writer.)
7. Doctor Strange #381-385 (2018). Loki somehow spoofs the Trial of the Vishanti to become Sorcerer Supreme, although whether he actually holds the mantle is unclear. By the end of the storyline, Stephen has it back
8. Death of Doctor Strange #5 (2022). Clea becomes Sorcerer Supreme of her second dimension on Stephen's request before he passes on.

If you look at the list, the mantle only passed by means of the tournament once (twice if the Loki thing was at all genuine). It's been passed by simple bequest more often.

[Iron Maiden]

Agreed. I imagine with many practitioners of magic having "normal" human-like lifespans that the Vishanti must have known that the time period in between trials would see many claimants to the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme who never lived long enough to participate in the actual trials. The trials are just meant to be an open competition, but one would think that the Vishanti reserve the right to test any SS for worthiness at any time.

True enough. But I doubt we've seen the last of Doom in this. Clea is not being very smart if she underestimates him and his mystical abilities that puts him up there in the elite. For one thing he recently bested her good ol' uncle Dormammu in Guardians of the Galaxy and is storing that power in his armor for some future use. Of course, this could be a foreshadowing of events in Slott's the Reckoning War



Strange has probably teamed up more often with Doom than he has with Clea. She's been mostly M.I.A for quite a while. Doom and Strange also had a multi-issue battle against Kulan Gath in Savage Avengers

[DigiCom]

True enough. But I doubt we've seen the last of Doom in this. Clea is not being very smart if she underestimates him and his mystical abilities that puts him up there in the elite. For one thing he recently bested her good ol' uncle Dormammu in Guardians of the Galaxy and is storing that power in his armor for some future use. Of course, this could be a foreshadowing of events in Slott's the Reckoning War

I disagree, because I heard an interview with Mackay on a podcast (Capes & Lunatics) last week, and it doesn't look like he's tying into the Reckoning War at all. Unlike Ewing, he prefers to focus on his own stories for the first arc.

Reckoning War exists in a weird sort of limbo. Massive upheavals in the Marvel U... but no effect outside the FF series.

My guess is that the Harvestman will be the focus of the first few issues, not Vic. By the time he shows up again, the Reckoning War will likely be over.

[Iron Maiden]

I disagree, because I heard an interview with Mackay on a podcast (Capes & Lunatics) last week, and it doesn't look like he's tying into the Reckoning War at all. Unlike Ewing, he prefers to focus on his own stories for the first arc.

Reckoning War exists in a weird sort of limbo. Massive upheavals in the Marvel U... but no effect outside the FF series.

My guess is that the Harvestman will be the focus of the first few issues, not Vic. By the time he shows up again, the Reckoning War will likely be over.

I think you misunderstand. My meaning was that Ewing was probably planting the Reckoning mention for Dan Slott's story, not this story. We know that Slott has been planning Reckoning War for years. So if Doom does show up Mackay may not even be aware of Doom's possessing the power of Dormammu anyway.

[DigiCom]

I think you misunderstand. My meaning was that Ewing was probably planting the Reckoning mention for Dan Slott's story, not this story. We know that Slott has been planning Reckoning War for years. So if Doom does show up Mackay may not even be aware of Doom's possessing the power of Dormammu anyway.

Oh, that's likely, yes.

[JudicatorPrime]

True enough. But I doubt we've seen the last of Doom in this. Clea is not being very smart if she underestimates him and his mystical abilities that puts him up there in the elite. For one thing he recently bested her good ol' uncle Dormammu in Guardians of the Galaxy and is storing that power in his armor for some future use.

Not my call, but if I had a say I'd drastically role back Doom's mastery of magic. He would be just under Sorcerer Supreme level, unless he has a talisman or tome of some sort in his possession that elevates him. That's still plenty dangerous and effective. I'd also impose specific rules as to how magic works for humans, including limitations on potency and effects.

But I get it: Writers at Marvel are only concerned about telling their story and there are no real constraints at all when it comes to achieving that end. If characters or environs of this fictional universe become broken as a result, so be it.

[cranger]

Clea said there was some fourth secret thing that allowed her to assume the mantle, so it will probably explain any possible contradiction with the rules.

[DigiCom]

Clea said there was some fourth secret thing that allowed her to assume the mantle, so it will probably explain any possible contradiction with the rules.

Prediction: spoilers:

"Stephen's heart"

end of spoilers

[DigiCom]

Not my call, but if I had a say I'd drastically role back Doom's mastery of magic. He would be just under Sorcerer Supreme level, unless he has a talisman or tome of some sort in his possession that elevates him. That's still plenty dangerous and effective. I'd also impose specific rules as to how magic works for humans, including limitations on potency and effects.

But I get it: Writers at Marvel are only concerned about telling their story and there are no real constraints at all when it comes to achieving that end. If characters or environs of this fictional universe become broken as a result, so be it.

Doom used to be written as a dabbler in the occult. It's only relatively recently that he was reframed as being a major mystical powerhouse.

As for rules about magic... they used to be pretty well-defined. But writers kept ignoring the, and now, every few years, someone tries to "rewrite the rules of magic".

[Clea]

True enough. But I doubt we've seen the last of Doom in this. Clea is not being very smart if she underestimates him and his mystical abilities that puts him up there in the elite. For one thing he recently bested her good ol' uncle Dormammu in Guardians of the Galaxy and is storing that power in his armor for some future use. Of course, this could be a foreshadowing of events in Slott's the Reckoning War... Strange has probably teamed up more often with Doom than he has with Clea. She's been mostly M.I.A for quite a while. Doom and Strange also had a multi-issue battle against Kulan Gath in Savage Avengers ...

I don't think that Clea is underestimating Doom at all. She's grieving to the point of utter despair but she will stop at nothing to honor Stephen's final wish that she prevent Doom from becoming Sorcerer Supreme. She's not even particularly happy to be there in this role, but she will honor Stephen's dying wish to her last breath if need be. [This is something that I dearly hope that MackKay elaborates on this story, because I've seen a lot of fans assuming that Strange and Doom are best buddies simply because they've fought together. My own personal view is that Strange is merely being pragmatic and respectful, but doesn't regard Doom to be his friend. I'd love for MacKay to elaborate on why Strange didn't want Doom to become Sorcerer Supreme.] Doom thought that Clea would acquiesce to his demands out of fear. If anything, Doom underestimated her, as her display of power demonstrated. Doom was already an accomplished and powerful sorcerer before he stole power from Dormammu (how much and to what end is unknown), but Clea is no pushover herself when it comes to power. She bested Umar in battle, and we've seen Umar take out Dormammu. I don't think she's ever defeated Dormammu on her own, so it would be interesting to see just how Doom would use Dormammu's power against her.

Of course Doom will be back. You don't kick off a new series with Doom banging on the door and ranting without expecting him to come back more prepared. I'm looking forward to that to see what he'll do next. I'd love for MacKay to bring up the fact that Doom defeated Dormammu because I'm super curious to find out what's going on back in the Dark Dimension.

As for Strange teaming up more with Doom than with Clea... I don't think so. Stephen and Clea lived together for quite a while and fought many times together. Fans are more familiar with Strange's recent team-ups with Doom because these have played out in multiple high profile titles recently, whereas Clea hasn't been around much in recently years and mainly only appeared in the pages of Strange's various titles and The Defenders. Doom is a popular, high profile character. Clea isn't high profile, except to long time fans of Strange's various books. Maybe this new title will allow more fans to become more familiar with her.



Regarding Triumph and Torment: that's one of my favorite Doctor Strange stories, but fighting in the Vishanti's sorcerer tournament is not the only way to become Sorcerer Supreme.

[Clea]

Comicon.com gives Strange #1 a 10/10
https://comicon.com/2022/03/04/a-str...ing-strange-1/

"Clea is a character that hasn’t had the same type of profile in the last decade or more that she once had when it came to Strange related stories, but one would never know that after reading this first issue. Jed MacKay is a true master at creating engaging plotlines/stories but perfectly nails capturing all the elements of emotion and character beats that help us become attached to these fictional beings. We saw this with the recent Black Cat series and the also currently running Moon Knight, and we see it here fully.

I can’t think of that many stories that I’ve read with Clea in all the time I’ve read Marvel Comics, the old school Strange books being a hole in my reading resume, but with just this one issue I fully love the character. The strength, the sass, the power, the firm determination with a side of vulnerability and honesty about her situation and her goals and a good sense of humor are a winning combination. I mean watching Clea utterly verbally destroy Doctor Doom is worth the price of admission alone, not to mention the great moments between her and Wong."


The review also discusses the penciling, colorwork, lettering, and inking. The reviewer notes that Marcelo Ferreira's artwork focuses in on the action and characters' emotions and often lets the background detail slip out of focus. The color scheme in the story is muted, as befits the gloomy, tense way this story opens, noting that the muted colors reflect "how grief and loss are handled or in some cases not handled."

The reviewer closes by noting that the SFX style used to illustrate the way that Doom was knocking on the door made him chuckle. That scene amused me too, but mainly because Bats was barking at the door.

[DigiCom]

Of course Doom will be back. You don't kick off a new series with Doom banging on the door and ranting without expecting him to come back more prepared. I'm looking forward to that to see what he'll do next. I'd love for MacKay to bring up the fact that Doom defeated Dormammu because I'm super curious to find out what's going on back in the Dark Dimension

If there's one thing we can say about Mackay, it's that he does his research. He loves deep cuts, like last week's Moon Knight issue which brought back a Marvel villain who has only appeared three times total, the last in 1992.

[Clea]

Here's an other positive review of Strange #1, by Zoe Tunnell on comicsxf.com
https://www.comicsxf.com/2022/03/02/...-in-strange-1/

The reviewer touches on the violence in the book:

"About that flayed flesh thing … Clea does NOT mess around. Whereas Doctor Strange tried to stick to his Hippocratic oath and avoid unnecessary pain and violence when possible, Clea has no such qualms. This hard edge, contrasting with her frequently eloquent and flowery dialogue, is what most sets her apart from her late husband. While she is very much fueled by her love for Stephen and hope for his return, she is still a warrior from a far more brutal dimension and doesn’t understand why all of us humans make such a fuss about a little blood. In a world where your average female superhero lead fits into standard molds like “tortured vigilante” and “tough but hopeful inspiration,” Clea’s posh-warrior-goddess energy is a truly entertaining change of pace in every way."

The review was less enthusiastic about some of the art, as well as the framing story that opened and ended the book.

[IonRyner]

I predict that her love of her husband - ex husband will allow her to bypass the rules despite what he done. At the end of the mini she says that he belongs to her and doesn't even call him her ex husband at all. I do not agree with what marvel did to those two and I refuse to believe he would ever do that to the one he loves.... I'll stop their, don't want to derail the thread. When that should be in it's own thread probably.

She is grieving the loss of Stephen so of course she's not in her right mind and is understandable. I also like the idea of giving her own series and I hope it lasts for a long time. I hope we see several series and mini series with her as the lead.

[Iron Maiden]

I predict that her love of her husband - ex husband will allow her to bypass the rules despite what he done. At the end of the mini she says that he belongs to her and doesn't even call him her ex husband at all. I do not agree with what marvel did to those two and I refuse to believe he would ever do that to the one he loves.... I'll stop their, don't want to derail the thread. When that should be in it's own thread probably.

She is grieving the loss of Stephen so of course she's not in her right mind and is understandable. I also like the idea of giving her own series and I hope it lasts for a long time. I hope we see several series and mini series with her as the lead.

I think Clea has such a limited footprint in the MU it would be easy to forget some of her transgressions in the past. I never did understand what writer Steve Englehart was doing when he wrote that story with Clea cheating on him with what appeared to be Ben Franklin!