Is Emma's past getting whitewashed?

[Saturius]

I was under the impression that what made Emma's 2000's redemption arc so good and her so interesting was that she was a monster, something she was well aware of, but a monster who was on the side of the X-Men and genuinely cared about the people under her charge? Doesn't saying "actually she was good all along" sort of ruin that? Like in the movie Solo, saying Han Solo was a good guy all along sort of ruins the tension in A New Hope over whether he'll go back or not?

Well even with all these new revelations about her past from so many writers (Fraction, Williams, Duggan) etc I don't think anybody actually thinks she was "good all along." You can't reconcile that with the things she's actually done. I think they are all just trying to make her crimes a bit softer because anyone who read Xmen, New Warriors, New Mutants, and the Firestar mini back in the day would not come away thinking the character was good at all. New Mutants was the softest Emma you saw in that time period until Gen X and even in New Mutants she was quite harsh and cruel.

But again, I am going to repeat what I said before. All this cleaning up isn't necessary. The character changed for the better so anytime these new things come to light trying to somewhat absolve her of blame just makes me roll my eyes.

[cranger]

At this point I don't care, but in general the most recent story will be the one most remembered, especially by new readers, writers and editors. If the current portrayal is one that people like, instead of reading old stories as informative they will interpret those stories under the light of their preferred view of the character (if not outright ignore them).

[Kingdom X]

I was under the impression that what made Emma's 2000's redemption arc so good and her so interesting was that she was a monster, something she was well aware of, but a monster who was on the side of the X-Men and genuinely cared about the people under her charge? Doesn't saying "actually she was good all along" sort of ruin that? Like in the movie Solo, saying Han Solo was a good guy all along sort of ruins the tension in A New Hope over whether he'll go back or not?

In the grand scheme of things I don't think her saving one little girl in a flashback makes her a retroactive "good guy" the entire time. ESPECIALLY, because the rest of the issue highlights a bunch of awful things she did and even Elektra points how she's no better than an assassin. Maybe saving this little girl means that she had "good in her", but that's always been my presumption since she became a long-term X-Man.

[Psy-lock]

The White Queen? More like The Whitewashed Queen, amright?

[OmegaStorm87]

Lol have you only just noticed this? Where have you been since the Uncanny 500 era lol?

Always makes me lol when Jean fans try to make a "thing" out of this considering the most damaging retcon to the entire franchise and maybe one of the worst in the medium of comics was done to whitewash Jean's crimes.

[Agent Z]

Stark and the Avengers who allowed an alien being to take Carol Danvers hostage and rape her and force her to have a baby against her will. I love how Claremont really roasted this story in the X-Men, he made it clear that he thought the whole Marcus storyline was awful and meant that the Avengers were complicit in the rape and abuse of Carol Danvers by Marcus.

If Marcus had been an X-Men villain, he'd have been offered a spot on the team with opinion of the woman he raped and abused ignored, if it was acknowledged at all.

[Agent Z]

Can you think of a better bunch of people to screw over?

Emma and the Hellfire Club.

Nuance? Context? What's that?

Funny how those words are only allowed to apply to the X-Men these days.

[Sutekh]

At this point it is getting a bit silly. And quite frankly it isn't necessary. She was evil in the past, went through something traumatic and changed for the better by choosing to be good and a hero. Why these writers constantly try to go back and slightly sanitize her past is beyond me.

I think she's more interesting as someone who was just bad, not misguided, not forced into it, not a woobie or a victim, just a selfish person who used her gifts and her position to take what she wanted (and felt she deserved). The story of the person *changing* and yet also surrounding herself with people with a better moral compass, is interesting to me, as it puts her in the same sort of position as characters like Amos, from the Expanse, who recognizes that he's got no moral compass, and yet doesn't want to be 'the bad guy' even if that's where all his instincts lead him, and so deliberately surrounds himself with good people, and let's them make the big moral decisions for him. In my mind, that's kind of what Emma does, with her relationship with Scott (and even her co-headmaster-ship with Sean).

Her own instincts have led her to nothing but grief, and gotten her associated with some truly loathsome people, and she can see into their minds and confirm that what other people end up thinking about them is actually true. They are terrible people, inside and out. And so she now tries to hang out with a better class of people. She's not naive enough to think it will 'rub off' on her. She'll never be 'the good guy.' But she'll use her villain's instincts to protect the heroes she walks beside if she can.

I think Krakoa has made a fair number of villains think on a more practical level. "Okay, am I better off *now* than I have been in the past?" And for many, if not most of them, the answer is unequivocally, "Yes." So the ones with any sort of self-control and higher reasoning skill (i.e. anyone not Sabertooth or Sinister or Selene, too darn angry or evil or set-in-their-ways) are choosing to just sort of ride this wave and see how far it's going to take them.

[kevlon]

I think Butter Rum was a Dire Wraith and Emma actually saved Angelica.

When the mutant master of microwaves Firestar gets her rightful place amongst the X-Men later this year, I do hope there's a lot of drama between her and Emma

[Zelena]

Her own instincts have led her to nothing but grief, and gotten her associated with some truly loathsome people, and she can see into their minds and confirm that what other people end up thinking about them is actually true. They are terrible people, inside and out. And so she now tries to hang out with a better class of people. She's not naive enough to think it will 'rub off' on her. She'll never be 'the good guy.' But she'll use her villain's instincts to protect the heroes she walks beside if she can.

It was clearer when she was in love with Scott Summers: to be loved, she wanted to be the kind of person Scott Summers needed her to be...

Now? It's ok to be ruthless because she is Emma Frost, the Ice Queen. She is frozen in her state and attitude, like a mercenary who doesn't need to have a conscience. She doesn't go beyond her definition.

[Diammandis]

She basically screwed over Nick Fury, She Hulk, Tony Stark and some others and the story and she is framing it as something she had to do cause they weren't requests but "orders" by Fisk during her time as the Hellfire Club's White Queen. So basically another instance of trying to pawn off her misdeeds onto someone else.

At this point it is getting a bit silly. And quite frankly it isn't necessary. She was evil in the past, went through something traumatic and changed for the better by choosing to be good and a hero. Why these writers constantly try to go back and slightly sanitize her past is beyond me.

she definitely was ordered to though? in exchange for Lourdes Chantels saftey and protection Fisk ordered her to do these deeds for him. Nothing in Devils Reign showed her to be this incredibly morally right person, she outright did terrible things. Im not sure how this "sanitizes" her past at all, if anything it fleshes out and adds more nuance to her past

[Agent Z]

she definitely was ordered to though? in exchange for Lourdes Chantels saftey and protection Fisk ordered her to do these deeds for him. Nothing in Devils Reign showed her to be this incredibly morally right person, she outright did terrible things. Im not sure how this "sanitizes" her past at all, if anything it fleshes out and adds more nuance to her past

Emma is a telepath and Lourdes is a teleporter. What could they have possibly needed Fisk for that they couldn't pull off themselves?

[johnnysv75]

Always makes me lol when Jean fans try to make a "thing" out of this considering the most damaging retcon to the entire franchise and maybe one of the worst in the medium of comics was done to whitewash Jean's crimes.

You mean the Phoenix retcon? Who says that all Jean fans are okay with that? And why can’t fans of a character who has been whitewashed have problems with another character being whitewashed?

[Starchilde]

Always makes me lol when Jean fans try to make a "thing" out of this considering the most damaging retcon to the entire franchise and maybe one of the worst in the medium of comics was done to whitewash Jean's crimes.

Many Jean fans don't like the retcon, I hate it lol

[Kisinith]

What crimes of Emma's have been Whitewashed?
What about Emma has been retconned?
(If its IvX... well we're all better if that is never brought up again)

As far as her needing Cyclops to be heroic, that ignores that she was a hero long before Morrison started that ship. That she filled more or less this same role in Gen X in the 90's as she does today.
Emma hasn't been whitewashed or retconned, she still did the things she was written as doing under Claremont. The only thing is that in the 80's and 90's she was changed from a villain and for the last 30 years (yeah 30 years) she generally been on the side of angels. Also unlike other redeemed villains (Rogue, Hawkeye, Gamora, Black Widow, etc...) They haven't largely ignored her history or pretended that she didn't do the things she did. If anything her past as a villain is brought up more than most.