Who is the best H2H fighter in the X-Men from?

[Alan2099]

Also, Sabretooth's whole thing is he beats up Wolverine pretty easy, so I guess anyone who beats Sabretooth is better than Wolverine? This kind of discussion just goes in circles.

There's been a few times that Wolverine has beat Sabretooth without much effort so that would mean Wolverine is better than Sabretooth who is better than Wolverine.

[yogaflame]

Bishop is notably absent from the contention. Raised in the future as a mutant police officer, studying techniques from our Era, he has a very methodical approach to fighting. Claremont had him whup Logan in a training session drawn by Davis, in the XSE era, somewhere in the 400's.

[X-Logan]

There's been a few times that Wolverine has beat Sabretooth without much effort so that would mean Wolverine is better than Sabretooth who is better than Wolverine.

Lol. Exactly.

If we consider 7 the highest level of h2h combat skills. The only 7 in my list would be (obviously) Wolverine. And then we have Cable as 6 and then Gambit, Nightcrawler, X-23, Mystique, kwannon and Domino as 5.

As for X-23, althought she has the same powers as Logan she is not nearly as good as he is.

[dkrook]

Exactly! There is a lot of Wolverine hate in this thread but everyone knows that Logan is the undisputed #1 H2H fighter among the extended X-men and one of the top 10 in the MU. He has gone toe to toe with all the top ranked fighters and either won, drew or lost but held his own. A one on one between Logan and any other X-man, no powers strictly skill; Logan wins. Some fights will be tougher than others, he will have to work for some and some but not all will be a cakewalk. But to suggest that Logan is not the hands down top H2H combatant of the X-men is disingenuous. No one among them as trained as extensively and as long as Logan has, yes writers are lazy and tend to portray him as a tank who just absorbs punishment but in his long history he has shown enough to cement his position as the best fighter amongst the X-men. No other X-man as the showings to supplant him.

Lol, he then proceeds to get his nuts handed to him by a female flatscan soldier in Extinction Agenda. I will only concede that killing him is way harder than beating him.

I can only list the few that could beat him:

Storm - A cunning, and at times ruthless h2h fighter that is feared among her peers. Let's not forget that as we speak she is queen of a planet of the most hardcore mutants this side of the galaxy, and is whopping ass in challenges like any other Tuesday!

Psylocke- you don't need to know 10 different fighting styles to to be a dominant fighter. Anyone who has been in the ring knows this. Speed and skill ...kill.

Bishop- dark horse (no pun intended) This man has taken down a bloodlusted Sabertooth, and has bested Wolverine in sparring session. Even though it hasn't been centuries, Bishop was honing his fighting skills for years due to his career of hunting evil mutants.

Scott- well because he is Scott!

Cable- is on the cusp.

[Triniking1234]

Well Kwannon is not a child. She has spent like what 20+ years killing her way to the top as a Hand assassin. She hasn't gone through what Betsy did but neither is it the other way around, is it? So parity I would say.

I mean Kwannon already killed Magnetos clone if that matters and I don't see Sabretooth as that much of a threat in general but that just might be me. She snapped the neck of a feral Wildchild though while already being wounded as an example for a similar style of combatant.

Those 20+ years as a Hand agent were assassination missions against normal people not super-villains or other super powered fighter.

Also she no-scoped Joseph AFTER Juggernaut and the X-Men beat him up and had him in cuffs. Betsy fought Erik one-on-one.

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[cranger]

Who cares if someone beat up old man Magneto in a fist fight, dude is not even on the list.

[Vishop]

Wolverine loses in a H2H with Scott.

At the same time he defeated Captain America, gone toe to toe with Shang Chi. Given Iron Fist a run for his money.
But he has been held up as punchbag for nooobs, bystandards Or even kids who could knock him out
Honestly it doesn't matter which fights he has lost and which fights he has won. Writers tend to inconsistenly write him because they want to consistently grab him into the mud for cash grabbing.
It's all comes how much learning experience and mastery has had in CANON and there are tons of books. He comes down as someone who has conistently keep his animal in check so he holds back even if he tends to kill someone

[Vishop]

X-23, pretty easily. She was able to beat Logan himself, (and no, Logan was NOT holding back in Target X. They made a point of that in the book that Logan had to fight her in earnest) and was even able to stomp Creed.

You mean the writer who created her. The writer who put X-23 on pedestal and Logan in the bottom of the river. I don't remember the last time Kyle/Yost wrote him any less than se xist degenerate animal. Whats your point?

[Dcnewb]

Mr potato head

[Wolverine12]

I think Logan has the best H2H feats, and the most of them as well so I agree he belongs at the top of the list. I'd list Laura 2nd, followed closely by Gambit and Psylocke. I rank Psylocke due to her time on Uncanny X-Force. Really on any given day I'd buy anyone listed being able to beat anyone assuming its the same weight class.

[Alan2099]

Wolverine loses in a H2H with Scott.

I can accept Cyclops beating Wolverine hand to hand about as well as I can accept Beast out muscling the Hulk.

[Jackraow21]

I think Logan has the best H2H feats, and the most of them as well so I agree he belongs at the top of the list. I'd list Laura 2nd, followed closely by Gambit and Psylocke. I rank Psylocke due to her time on Uncanny X-Force. Really on any given day I'd buy anyone listed being able to beat anyone assuming its the same weight class.

You clearly must’ve omitted Cable above due to his being in a much higher weight class.

[Grunty]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Although I do love the debates that has arisen, especially when it is accompanied with evidence/refences from the actual comics such as the way @thjan has laid out his case. **Chef's Kiss**

But do to his popularity I would have to say this has to go to wolverine. He has been in about a millions books and has found himself in more situations to display his abilities. I remember reading an issues where he beat Ironfist during training/practice which I was a little shocked to see.

One thing i feel should also be considered is that for most characters one could also make a case for there being a potential rock, paper, scissors dynamic, both in skills and powers.

Now of course, as said before favoritism, popularity and writers and/or artist who are incapable of presenting dynamic fights, will often result in many characters appearing as unbeatable "Masters of all" as the number of stories and encounters increases.

However when implication and presentation of skills, combined with potential of powers is examined in a... let's say balanced viewpoint, there is a potential or downright visible dynamic at play that will make some better or weaker than others even if they are on the same relative plateau (and sometimes will move down and up on them).

Come to think of it. The question should perhaps not be who is the singular best H2h fighter, but more who are the best in plural. As there are certainly different levels of H2H qualities in which several characters will appear better than others, but relative even compared to each other.

EDIT:
I had some fun thinking up a rough outline on how characters and their "supposed" (as in what evidence and implication would suggest) H2H fighting qualities could be valued into different levels, based on a point system from categories.

The categories are: 1. Experience, 2. Skill, 3. Physical Condition, 4. Active Super Powers, 5. Passive Super Powers and 6. Standard Tools.

Point values are:
1. Experience.
(-1)Green (never experienced or witnessed hand to hand combat personaly). (1).Experienced (successfully handled a few encounters). (2).Advanced (participated in combat over years or even decades). (3)."Gone through hell and back" (either experienced combat on a daily basis for years or fought in a number of battles beyond the limit of a human lifespan).

2. Skill:
(-1) Unskilled (untrained and/or incapable of putting training to use). (1).Skilled (got trained in hand to hand combat and capable of putting this knowledge into action effectively). (2)Very skilled (advanced techniques and/or naturaly gifted beyond what a common person could do even with training). (3.)Super human skilled (able to perform and apply techniques beyond what even a gifted normal human would be able to do).

3. Physical Condition:
(-1)Unfit (out of shape or otherwise below what their body should be able to do normaly). (1). Fit (body in good shape and/or gone through basic exercise). (2).Very fit (physicaly performing at the peak of what their body should naturaly be able to do). (3).Peak human fit (performing physicaly at a limit beyond what a normal human should be able, but without it being a full blown passive or active super power).

The last one refers to how Captain America has been at times refered to as having "peak human" physical qualities, which are obvious super human in nature, but don't count as full blown super powers ala Collosus or Hulk level of super strength or fitness.

4. Active Super Powers:
(-1)Unsuited (hindering them in melee combat). (0)."Fine without" (no advantage, but not hindering either). (1).Usefull (can be applied in hand to hand combat for some advantage). (2).Advantageous (gives someone a serious edge over an opponent who doesn't have an equal or ability to bypass them). (3).Overpowering (makes it almost impossible to beat someone with an equal advantage or ability to bypass them).

5. Passive Super Powers:
(-1).Harmfull (gives them a disadvantage if they have to perform melee combat). (0)."Fine wtihout". (1).usefull (slight advantage). (2).Advantagous (serious advantage). (3).overpowering (requires a full blown counter to overcome).

6. Tools:
A weapon they know how to handle and frequently carry or can obtain easily, artifical augmentations, weapons which are augmentations, magic spells, etc.
(-1). Hindering (actualy makes a character worse in melee combat, which can include using a weapon they don't know how to use properly). (1)."Fine without" (only use their body, but that's enough to be able to handle fights). (2)."Armed and dangerous" (always in posession of a tool that gives them an advantage over even cabale unarmed opponents). (3).Deadly (always in posession of a tool that is beyond what is commonly aviable).

And that's it.

I don't think any character should be a full 18/18 and even 16/18 would seem close to broken. So i guess the peak would be anyone who can fit around 14/15.

Just something i have come up with for fun, not through methological thinking and analysis. So if anyone wants to expand, reconsider or dismantle this feel free to do so.

[markdienekes]

At his best, Cable. Hell, even when he's on the ropes he's a beast (near death see what he did to the Avengers in X-Sanction). Knows a lot of different fighting styles. I'd definitely go with Cable above the rest on this list, especially with his brilliant tactical mind. Cable fought both Wolverine and Bishop to a standstill also...

[Wolverine12]

You clearly must’ve omitted Cable above due to his being in a much higher weight class.

I said what I said bub