Destiny should be Rogue’s biological mother, Mystique biological father

[dragon1440]

Y'all are getting really heated over this and the thing is, the comics are absolutely conflicting regarding whether Rogue ran away from her biological family before or after her kiss with Cody when her powers manifested. It has absolutely been told different ways in comics canon, movies, and the cartoons. There isn't a single correct story, just which canon you personally uphold and that which you choose to reject.

I'd love a new Rogue solo to once and for all clear up Rogue's past, merge these conflicting pieces and end the confusion. Let's find out whether the hippie commune story was real or not and what happened to Rogue's father.

I very much love that Rogue was adopted by Mystique and Irene. Found family IS important. However, we can't pretend they did this purely out of the goodness of their hearts. It wasn't a coincidence Raven ran into Rogue in the middle of rural Mississippi. Irene foresaw that Rogue would be useful to them. It doesn't mean they don't also love her. People are complicated, especially Irene and Raven.

I'm also laughing that people are willing to suspend their disbelief and accept that a person in a fictional narrative could alter and control every single cell in their body to become any person they want to look like and even take on the shapes of animals, but somehow can't change ova into sperm. It is entirely possible for Mystique to father a child, if she was so motivated. It would probably have to be fairly intentional though. In a fictional world where we are literally resurrecting dead characters, magic literally exists, vampires are real, aliens are real .... THIS is the hill you want to die on? I can think of 9 ways to Sunday to give a fairly dependable pseudoscience explanation of how Mystique could do this and I don't even write comics.

Whether Rogue SHOULD be related biologically to Mystique and/or Irene ... that's different. It's very much an opinion and how much you tie your own identity into these characters is going to color that. Personally, I think it would it be narratively very interesting.

However, yes ... that would mean breaking their found family aspect. I think it bothers me less, again, because Mystique and Destiny didn't just happen upon Rogue by accident or have totally pure intentions for taking her in. They weren't out looking for mutant youths to save because they are wholly charitable.

This adds a layer to Destiny's big picture scheming and moral relativism.

When it comes to the found family aspect again look at gay culture. By having them be her biological family it ruins the found family aspect, which is very very very important in the LGBTQ+ community considering so many young ones are kicked out of there house and disowned and have to form a found family.

[Sylarmax]

No. Complete opposite. Do you know nothing of Rouge's character???????? Pretty much one of the consistencies in her story is that her powers first manifested when she kissed Cody, and

With respect, but the one who confused Rogue's story is you (and in some points you gave before, I'm with you but with this not because you're completely wrong) I think you confuse what was shown in the animated series so it's totally wrong, with what that really happened, hell even xmen Evolution was closer to the reality of the comics since Irene did exist there, and it is shown THAT THEY ADOPTED HER BEFORE HER ROGUE MANIFESTED HER POWERS many years before, just like in the comics, in fact In Evolution mystique he says that he adopted her when Rogue was only 4 years old.


If there is something very established in Rogue's history, it is that the matter of Cody's kiss and Rogue was with Mystique and Irene.
not before , since the kissing thing happened with a Rogue at the beginning of her puberty ( at 12 or 13 years old ) and Mystique and Irene adopted Rogue as a very little Girl of about 4 / 7 years old .


And that was many years before she developed her mutant powers.
the reason why she ran away from her house as a little girl is still unknown, although many have the theory that she was because of how severe her aunt Carrie was, although I don't think that was the only reason.


Also there are over the years many family photos of Rogue very small with bare skin together with Mystique touching her with bare skin and this was many years before her puberty, which is when she developed her powers.


But well, let's go to the same memories of Rogue, in her room with all her stuffed animals and childhood memories, with a very small Rogue and before developing her powers, quite a lot of bare skin playing with Mystique who is not covered with clothes either.






And how you see in these height marks, Rogue is with her mothers many years BEFORE DEVELOPING HER POWERS from her, at least we know about her they had her at an age less than 7 years old.
and that's Mystique's house where she raised Rogue.

[Triniking1234]

No, I literally cited comics. Generally, it's accepted that Mystique and Destiny adopted Rogue in her pre-teens. And yes, after she ran away after the Cody incident, a time traveling Cable saved her from an anti-mutant mob before she went back to Mystique.

What issues are the Cable ones from?

[TheRealWashout]

What issues are the Cable ones from?

It happened in Cable #87.

With respect, but the one who confused Rogue's story is you (and in some points you gave before, I'm with you but with this not because you're completely wrong) I think you confuse what was shown in the animated series so it's totally wrong, with what that really happened, hell even xmen Evolution was closer to the reality of the comics since Irene did exist there, and it is shown THAT THEY ADOPTED HER BEFORE HER ROGUE MANIFESTED HER POWERS many years before, just like in the comics, in fact In Evolution mystique he says that he adopted her when Rogue was only 4 years old.


If there is something very established in Rogue's history, it is that the matter of Cody's kiss and Rogue was with Mystique and Irene.
not before , since the kissing thing happened with a Rogue at the beginning of her puberty ( at 12 or 13 years old ) and Mystique and Irene adopted Rogue as a very little Girl of about 4 / 7 years old .


And that was many years before she developed her mutant powers.
the reason why she ran away from her house as a little girl is still unknown, although many have the theory that she was because of how severe her aunt Carrie was, although I don't think that was the only reason.


Also there are over the years many family photos of Rogue very small with bare skin together with Mystique touching her with bare skin and this was many years before her puberty, which is when she developed her powers.


But well, let's go to the same memories of Rogue, in her room with all her stuffed animals and childhood memories, with a very small Rogue and before developing her powers, quite a lot of bare skin playing with Mystique who is not covered with clothes either.



And how you see in these height marks, Rogue is with her mothers many years BEFORE DEVELOPING HER POWERS from her, at least we know about her they had her at an age less than 7 years old.
and that's Mystique's house where she raised Rogue.

Thank you for this scan! I was looking for this, but I couldn't find it.

I'm not super passionate about the when, but I will get heated about being told I'm wrong and that I don't know my favorite character when I present evidence that others won't listen to, so I really appreciate the addition of this issue. There's one issue that says she was adopted by Raven and Irene after the Cody incident, but almost every other story says otherwise.

[Sylarmax]

Rogue was and was adopted by her mothers MANY YEARS BEFORE the kiss with Cody, and before she developed her powers (and what happened in the cable comic she had already been adopted by Mystique).


Canon and proofs here (there are many more but here I prove the point):

But well, let's go to the same memories of Rogue, in her room with all her stuffed animals and childhood memories, with a very small Rogue and before developing her powers, quite a lot of bare skin playing with Mystique who is not covered with clothes either.






And how you see in these height marks, Rogue is with her mothers many years BEFORE DEVELOPING HER POWERS from her, at least we know about her they had her at an age less than 7 years old.
and that's Mystique's house where she raised Rogue.

[Sylarmax]

It happened in Cable #87.



Thank you for this scan! I was looking for this, but I couldn't find it.

I'm not super passionate about the when, but I will get heated about being told I'm wrong and that I don't know my favorite character when I present evidence that others won't listen to, so I really appreciate the addition of this issue. There's one issue that says she was adopted by Raven and Irene after the Cody incident, but almost every other story says otherwise.

You're welcome yes, well maybe at first this issue was very nebulous but over the last decade or maybe two it became concrete, that Cody's issue was many years after Mystique and Irene adopted her.
they adopted her before she developed her mutant powers.


In fact Cody was not the only boy who left him in a coma, at least it is known of another boy that Rogue tried to kiss without his powers being activated but the result was the same, only I think he released it in time, and if here Mystique and Irene appear and mention what happened previously with Cody.

[Sylarmax]

One of Rouge's mini series dealt with her biological family and the commune she was raised on. Father, Mother, and Aunt have all been introduced. Now there parantage has not be explored. And that honestly would be the best link, as her mother was the only one of her commune to make it to the realm they were trying to get to. Maybe insert mutant linage there if any where.

You started very badly giving truth to your argument by citing the movie and the bad adaptation of the animated series TAS when they are very far from the origin of Rogue, and neither of them is canon FOR THE COMICS.


It's that you're wrong, and I know all the Rogue canon, in fact not even Claremont mentioned that the Cody incident was before mystique so are you making it up, or are you severely confused because of the TAS animated series and the movie that they are the only works that she runs away from home since about Cody.


But in everything else. XMEN EVOLUTION and COMICS canon Rogue was adopted by Mystique and Irene before she manifested her mutant powers, actually many years before.


Regarding her solo, you are also very confused and it doesn't prove your point because 1) that solo was all very shady and nebulous and they don't even specify at what age she ran away, you only know SHE FLEEED BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T LIKE HOW SEVERE HER AUNT WAS, THE ISSUE OF CODY IS NOT MENTIONED AT ANY TIME, 2) IN xmennunlimited a little Rogue is seen running away from her house, BEFORE SHOWING HER POWERS and found by Mystique.


In addition to all that there are also many family portraits in the 90s of little Rogue with Mystique and Irene living a happy life before the Cody incident (written by Claremont. when he put the Destiny diaries).
They mentioned the cable thing to you, and add that even Mike Carey showed the family dynamic before manifesting his powers.


In fact most of the writers have captured that Rogue is with Mystique long before manifesting her powers, even Chris Claremont the creator of Rogue did so, so the one who is very confused with the canon of the character is you, because most Most of the writers agree that Cody happened many years after to Raven and Irene adopted Rogue.


But hey, I left you two irrefutable proof scans, and if you don't accept that, it's no longer worth giving you more arguments, because it was proven that you're not right, even with images.

[Triniking1234]

X-Men Unlimited vol.1 #4 shows the Cody incident and that Mystique meets Rogue after she had run away and become a hobo or something.



RCO028_w.jpg

[AppleJ]

When it comes to the found family aspect again look at gay culture. By having them be her biological family it ruins the found family aspect, which is very very very important in the LGBTQ+ community considering so many young ones are kicked out of there house and disowned and have to form a found family.

Yes, I fully appreciate that and totally understand why that aspect is very important.

The trouble is X-Men, while a great metaphor for LGBTQ+ and other minority groups, is not totally a 1-to-1 metaphor. It wants to serve multiple metaphors so it can tell the most stories.

Some of the inherent trouble comes from the fact that Irene and Raven aren't purely heroic, some might say even say villainous. At the least, their priority has always been their own interests. They take Rogue in for her usefulness to their cause. So in that respect, I wonder if they're serving the metaphor as well as they could? It at least muddies the water a bit.

And to what extent should serving a metaphor take precedence over story telling?

I don't have an actual answer, but it's worth mulling over.

With more representation it would honestly become less of an issue of having to choose one over the other.

It also hinges so much on WHEN they took her in. If it is before she manifests/becomes a mutant, it weakens the found family metaphor and makes them look far more ethically questionable.

Since the comics tell us both are true, it really needs clarification.

[Sylarmax]

X-Men Unlimited vol.1 #4 shows the Cody incident and that Mystique meets Rogue after she had run away and become a hobo or something.

This entered as a bug, and was deleted, Rogue was adopted by Mystique many years before Sue's powers manifested.


See the images that Rogue posted was 7. and even Chris Claremont established Cody's thing many years after mystique adopted her, Claremont in the plot of the Destiny diaries showed in images a rogue under 10 YEARS of age, with a lot of skin nude and obviously not yet in her teens, in various photos with Mystique and Irene.
EVEN RECEIVING CHRISTMAS GIFTS WITH A RAVEN IN DISGUISE.

With Chris Claremont:







So most of the representations, especially the last ones, show that they adopted it before the Cody incident.

With Mike Carey:

[Rev9]

We know both ladies have had children by dudes of course, but since Irene sees the future well maybe she saw what a good hero Rogue would be in the future and told Mystique to turn into a man to get her pregnant. This would make Nightcrawler and Rogue siblings by blood. And it would be what Claremont intended for Nightcrawler, but it’s since been established Raven is his mom and Azazel the dad. Plus I don’t think Irene and Raven what let a stranger raise a child together, so this story doesn’t fit Kurt. But it does Anna.

When Mystique shapeshifts into males ,is it just superficial shapeshifting or down to biological detail?(i.e chromosomes,gametes..etc)

[WallStreeter]

When Mystique shapeshifts into males ,is it just superficial shapeshifting or down to biological detail?(i.e chromosomes,gametes..etc)

If she could change her DNA, she would be able to change her powers. Which she cannot do. I mean, I'm sure she has the male body parts when she turns into a dude, but but her DNA does not change when she changes shape.

[WallStreeter]

People can do what they want to do, but posting scans here does not mean the current writers or editors will respect or acknowledge them.

[mikeb]

Sylamax, that was not Chris Claremont. That was Alan Davis. That came out in the period when Davis wrote and illustrated the two main books, between when Steve Seagal and Joe Kelly quit the books in editorial protest and Claremont's second run, circa 1999.

[Sylarmax]

Sylamax, that was not Chris Claremont. That was Alan Davis. That came out in the period when Davis wrote and illustrated the two main books, between when Steve Seagal and Joe Kelly quit the books in editorial protest and Claremont's second run, circa 1999.

Thank you thank you , I was confused because Claremont took the reins soon after .


But still I think the canon mwsmcimentsdo is clear, Rogue was adopted by Mystique many years before she developed her powers and the theme of Cody.


So far in comics. (universe 616) only once and it was in an unlimited way that it was insinuated that the Cody thing was before mystique,,,z and this I blame the animated series of the 90's that did a lot of harm regarding the perception of Rogue's family dynamics (directly Irene doesn't even exist), but everything else clearly says that mystique adopted her long before.


In the 80s, as they mentioned, Rogue says that Mystique comforted Rogue as a child when she had a nightmare,,,,,,,,,,, then nothing else was mentioned for many years until the error of unlimite,,,, ,, BUT AFTER THAT IT WAS LOGICAL.
that mystique and irene adopted her long before she developed her powers, there are two specific comics after unlimite that clearly show this (2 different issues) that they show was long before she developed her powers, and a decade later mike carey the best writer that Rogue has had together with Claremont, he showed two specific images of Rogue before she had her powers, and she was a very young girl and was already with Mystique and Irene ........... the Cody thing happened when she was daughter of Mystique and Irene and that is also made clear in the Cable comic.



So in summary we have at least 5 different comics that say and show that mystique adopted her before she had her powers, versus one that was misspelled because of TASeries.....and after that mistake they spent 20 years showing us that Rogue's adoption was long before she acquired her powers and the Cody incident, and that should no longer be in doubt, because in canon 616 not once but several times they have emphasized this fact.