Is Mephisto being positioned to become Spider-Man's arch-nemesis?

[Huntsman Spider]

You receive ASM#93 and Mephisto is revealed as the mastermind behind Beyond.

Your reaction in 10 words or less:

Somehow, all roads lead back to that. Not surprised, really.

[Celgress]

I admit it, I would kind of like to see Mephisto vs. Norman, winner takes all.

*sigh* Mephisto being behind Green Goblin/Norman Osborn is a clear case of the trope "The Man Behind The Man". It sickened me so much I've dropped Spidey books *again*-

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...anBehindTheMan

The entire situation with Marvel Editorial and Mephisto/OMD reminds me of a line from the song "Viking Death March" - "They Speak About Trust But Make No Mistake They're Shaking Your Hand While They Spit In Your Face".

[HypnoHustler]

*sigh* Mephisto being behind Green Goblin/Norman Osborn is a clear case of the trope "The Man Behind The Man". It sickened me so much I've dropped Spidey books *again*-

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...anBehindTheMan

I admit I was kinda a sucker for that trope during the Clone Saga when you had Norman controlling Gaunt who was controlling Scrier who was controlling Jackal who was controlling Spidercide and so on and so on… but yeah, it is a bit silly and Mephisto shouldn’t be the Big Bad in the Spidey books.

[Celgress]

I admit I was kinda a sucker for that trope during the Clone Saga when you had Norman controlling Gaunt who was controlling Scrier who was controlling Jackal who was controlling Spidercide and so on and so on… but yeah, it is a bit silly and Mephisto shouldn’t be the Big Bad in the Spidey books.

It also takes away all of Norman's historical agency as a villain and by extension Harry's (both as a villain and a brief anti-hero), because Mephisto and his deal (not OMD, but the deal with Norman) was behind everything all along.... #*@%+

[Kanos]

I hope Mephisto/AI Osborn just tricked Norman and he didn't make a deal. Mephisto saw a vision of Peter and MJ's daughter defeating him, and she was dressed in a Ben Reilly costume. This suit was designed by Ben, but if Norman wasn't originally supposed to be a goblin, where did Ben come from? After all, the Clone Saga was Norman's plan after he lost in ASM #122.

[Lunala]

It also takes away all of Norman's historical agency as a villain and by extension Harry's (both as a villain and a brief anti-hero), because Mephisto and his deal (not OMD, but the deal with Norman) was behind everything all along.... #*@%+

Yeah... It's pretty bad when you remember that Harry sabotaged the formula due to daddy dearest being neglectful. Why was Stromm fine after being exposed to the formula but Osborn got brain damage and decided he wanted to be a costume criminal? Did Mephisto consult one of the many mad scientists in Marvel hell and Harry, a poor student, changed it under his direction? I shouldn't have to wonder about all this...

[Matt Rat]

You receive ASM#93 and Mephisto is revealed as the mastermind behind Beyond.

Your reaction in 10 words or less:

He's involved somewhat, given the sins of Osborn (arguably his creation) are infused into Kafka.

[Serving Size]

I misread the title as Mysterio, then saw it was asking about Mephisto and groaned.

[Sr. Bungle]

Mephisto has been used as a plot device to "fix" things one time many.

[The Kid]

I hope not. I don't see the point lol

[Huntsman Spider]

Mephisto has been used as a plot device to "fix" things one time many.

If you're referring to One More Day, that was only a "fix" in the mind of Joe Quesada and his adherents, since the whole point was to make Spider-Man not only "not married anymore," but through the hellish magic of retroactive continuity, "never married in the first place."

Beyond that, as much as we can gripe about Mephisto being used to explain Norman Osborn's descent into evil and villainy, I think that overlooks the fact that Norman agreed to the deal in the first place, because even back then, he was a greedy, power-hungry S.O.B., which set the stage for his transformation into the Green Goblin and everything that followed. Sure, he might have been an unwitting pawn to Mephisto in the end, but his choices were still his own for the most part, rooted in his core as a selfish, greedy, power-hungry bastard who would screw over and trample on anyone and everyone in his path if that was what it took to get the wealth and power he sought.

[Sr. Bungle]

If you're referring to One More Day, that was only a "fix" in the mind of Joe Quesada and his adherents, since the whole point was to make Spider-Man not only "not married anymore," but through the hellish magic of retroactive continuity, "never married in the first place."

Beyond that, as much as we can gripe about Mephisto being used to explain Norman Osborn's descent into evil and villainy, I think that overlooks the fact that Norman agreed to the deal in the first place, because even back then, he was a greedy, power-hungry S.O.B., which set the stage for his transformation into the Green Goblin and everything that followed. Sure, he might have been an unwitting pawn to Mephisto in the end, but his choices were still his own for the most part, rooted in his core as a selfish, greedy, power-hungry bastard who would screw over and trample on anyone and everyone in his path if that was what it took to get the wealth and power he sought.

Yeah, hence the quotation marks

[Huntsman Spider]

Yeah, hence the quotation marks

Ah, point.

[Lunala]

...

To (mis)quote a famous war general, "No character ever won villain of the year by sacrificing his first born to Satan. He won it by making the other character sacrifice theirs."

I doubt anyone thinks he's a good guy for the demonic deal. At least... I hope not? What annoys me is when shady characters that originally had any degree of depth have it removed by writing lacking subtlety. This is Flanderization at its finest, and it says a lot when comics from the 1960s could manage some subjects with more complexity.

Osborn might have often stolen things from Stromm, but he once was, at the very least, a passable businessman. Stromm secretly borrowed large sums of money from the business without letting the shareholders know. After he was caught, the opportunity allowed Osborn to frame it as embezzlement and land him in prison. It was clever because Stromm actually did mess up, allowing his partner to strike, and Osborn took him to the cleaners. Reframing a moment of mundane villain victory as supernatural involvement devalues a good story.

Trading a child for cash is the laziest conceivable choice anyone could've gone with for a capitalist. I don't expect Osborn to be a good person or magically non-abusive. But I would prefer that anything based on the 60s version of him kept his kid out of his rubbish since he'd have freaking panic attacks over it. Or if we are going through with the deal. Why not have a drunk and grieving Osborn sacrifice the kiddo "responsible" for the wife's death by childbirth treatment and explain her sudden inexplicable reappearance during the Red Goblin arc? Spencer is a better writer than me, so I'm confident he could've come up with something more compelling than my own suggestion, let alone what he went with, c'mon. This new revelation only exasperated my existent issues with the character's supposed "natural progression" since his return.

And unfortunately. We honestly can't be sure how much of his choices after this were his own. At least not until they revisit the darn thing. AGAIN. Having GG utter the phrase "Go ahead and kill him. He's of no use to me anymore." definitely indicates less than total agency. Also... since I'm already griping, Was it necessary to have Harry Osborn order Mysterio sexually assault his father? Like what the actual heck, man.

[Kanos]

To (mis)quote a famous war general, "No character ever won villain of the year by sacrificing his first born to Satan. He won it by making the other character sacrifice theirs."

I doubt anyone thinks he's a good guy for the demonic deal. At least... I hope not? What annoys me is when shady characters that originally had any degree of depth have it removed by writing lacking subtlety. This is Flanderization at its finest, and it says a lot when comics from the 1960s could manage some subjects with more complexity.

Osborn might have often stolen things from Stromm, but he once was, at the very least, a passable businessman. Stromm secretly borrowed large sums of money from the business without letting the shareholders know. After he was caught, the opportunity allowed Osborn to frame it as embezzlement and land him in prison. It was clever because Stromm actually did mess up, allowing his partner to strike, and Osborn took him to the cleaners. Reframing a moment of mundane villain victory as supernatural involvement devalues a good story.

Trading a child for cash is the laziest conceivable choice anyone could've gone with for a capitalist. I don't expect Osborn to be a good person or magically non-abusive. But I would prefer that anything based on the 60s version of him kept his kid out of his rubbish since he'd have freaking panic attacks over it. Or if we are going through with the deal. Why not have a drunk and grieving Osborn sacrifice the kiddo "responsible" for the wife's death by childbirth treatment and explain her sudden inexplicable reappearance during the Red Goblin arc? Spencer is a better writer than me, so I'm confident he could've come up with something more compelling than my own suggestion, let alone what he went with, c'mon. This new revelation only exasperated my existent issues with the character's supposed "natural progression" since his return.

And unfortunately. We honestly can't be sure how much of his choices after this were his own. At least not until they revisit the darn thing. AGAIN. Having GG utter the phrase "Go ahead and kill him. He's of no use to me anymore." definitely indicates less than total agency. Also... since I'm already griping, Was it necessary to have Harry Osborn order Mysterio sexually assault his father? Like what the actual heck, man.

I don't understand why you think Mysterio did something to Norman? He just hypnotized him.
As for the deal, I wrote above that I consider it a fake. Everything in this story looked strange, Harry could not know that Norman and Mendel were alive, Mendel must be Gaunt, not a cyborg (he became a cyborg in Jenkins' PP:SM in the late 90s), Peter and MJ's daughter in Mephisto's vision was dressed as Ben Reilly, Ben couldn't exist without the Green Goblin. It all makes no sense, I don't understand how Nick Spencer, being a person who knows lore well, could make such mistakes.