DC comics ceases to be a credible competitor to Marvel

[The True Detective]

Two things, most importantly OP, you aren't as funny and clever as you think you are "dC Iznt comPETitioN 2 Muh Marvel" is about as creative as a song about a girl. And secondly OP straight up admits they're trolling and the mods did nothing, aren't troll threads supposed to get closed? Can I now create a blatant troll thread for shits and giggles too?

[thwhtGuardian]

Even before the break with diamond the numbers were apparently not particularly accurate. The posts were lost when CBR rebooted but when she used to post more frequently around these parts Gail Simone used to always say that the numbers being reported on by Icv2 and Comichron didn't come close to her royalty statement and let's be honest I'd expect DC to cook the books on that so as to pay their talent less not inflate numbers to pay them more. And she wasn't the only one, as Brevoort said the same thing and when challenged about it even John Miller from Comichron said that they knew their numbers didn't give the whole picture:

since indexed sales charts began appearing in 1984, the intended audience for them has always been retailers, allowing them to gauge their sales levels on titles relative to the national average.Consumers turn to estimates like ours is because they have a legitimate interest in knowing the minimum number of copies in circulation, in order to incorporate supply in secondary market decisions.I ensure that Comichron pays very little mind to the "horse race" elements and almost no attention to cross-time trends on individual titles, for which the noisy comics-shipped data is less well suited.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marv...tely-accurate/

So everything you're(and every other click bate article out there) trying to read from the data is essentially the absolute wrong assumption to make from the very people collecting the data.

[Rich Johnston]

Also worth noting the Bleeding Cool will also exaggerate details to make it look grim for DC, as well.
Not because they have a particular hate for DC. They seem to do it with Marvel, also.
I think they just dislike corporate comics.

This is not true. No details exaggerated. No hate for either.

[Rich Johnston]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...-wonder-woman/

But then please also add https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...e-warners-lot/

The new DC Comics offices will be in the newly built Frank Gehry-designed "iceblock" office towers, plans for which were unveiled two years ago. At the time then-Warner Bros Chair and CEO Ann Sarnoff said that "These incredible new buildings will combine state-of-the-art technology with a dynamic work environment and allow us to re-imagine not only our workspace but our future. This is an investment in our employees, our creative and business partners, and the Burbank community." Warner Bros plans to move into the new buildings in 2023, coinciding with the AT&T-owned studio's 100th anniversary, but ownership and post-pandemic needs have switched that timetable up. The current schedule is for DC Comics to move into one of the towers of the new building in June – the other tower is still being completed.

[Noodle]

This is not true. No details exaggerated.

That's nonsense and you know it. You guys constantly exaggerate article headlines because you know it will get you clicks.

If that's how you want to run your business, cool. But don't pretend otherwise.

[Lal]

Even before the break with diamond the numbers were apparently not particularly accurate. The posts were lost when CBR rebooted but when she used to post more frequently around these parts Gail Simone used to always say that the numbers being reported on by Icv2 and Comichron didn't come close to her royalty statement and let's be honest I'd expect DC to cook the books on that so as to pay their talent less not inflate numbers to pay them more. And she wasn't the only one, as Brevoort said the same thing and when challenged about it even John Miller from Comichron said that they knew their numbers didn't give the whole picture:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marv...tely-accurate/

So everything you're(and every other click bate article out there) trying to read from the data is essentially the absolute wrong assumption to make from the very people collecting the data.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't royalties calculated from all sales, including online sales and markets abroad?
So even if only 30% of the book sales were online or in markets abroad it would drastically affect the total units that the writer receives royalties for. It would be the difference between royalties calculated for 50k sales, from which only 35k would appear on comichorn,

[skyvolt2000]

It seems people are judging the sample and icv2 too harshly. Is this sample perfect?

The issue is what stores are they using?

What stores are under this Comichub group-is it all 3000 stores and they chose 100 or is it 1000 stores and they chose 100.

Because the customers that say in Iowa serve are NOT the same ones in Dallas serves.

So if that list is NOT including states like Texas it's not telling the whole story.

If DC are having a hard time selling monthly comics in physical stores, it's disturbing.

Something called SHIPPING might cause that as many stores in my city have had trouble getting books and at times could not ORDER certain books.
Static Season 1 for example- stores here do not have the last issue and issue 4 (mainly the Akira cover) wasn't on FOC lists for many stores.

Along with the fact a lot of variants for books don't make the FOC list. Yet somehow end up on Ebay. I have noticed it more with Marvel (looking at you Peter Parker and Miles Morales) and indy books like Dark Blood.

It's not disturbing when you understand the many ways to get a comic book. New or used.

If I did NOT care about the cover-why would I buy ANY certain DC titles when I see how many sales Midtown Comics have? Are they NOT having a sale right now where certain books from the past 6 months are there? Like Batman 89 was?

As long as you got an alternative way to get certain books cheaper-folks will take it.

[skyvolt2000]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't royalties calculated from all sales, including online sales and markets abroad?
So even if only 30% of the book sales were online or in markets abroad it would drastically affect the total units that the writer receives royalties for. It would be the difference between royalties calculated for 50k sales, from which only 35k would appear on comichorn,

I want to say yes but it might depend on who the creative team is and how those contracts are made.

Overseas is whole different beast.

[Shadowcat]

No it's been pretty toxic, as I've since discovered that the topic is wrapped up in the ugly culture war that has infected comics. (ie; People arguing that sexuality or racial changes are either increasing or decreasing sales)

My post is therefore attracting the political people in this forum.

The fact that you spend more time posting in the "all purpose news and politics" section than comic books is evidence of this. I'm out, I'm into business sales, not politics.

Lol your entire op was toxic.

[Triniking1234]

I was a little worried but if the numbers are unreliable then I guess I don't need to worry for now.

Also, there are too many Batman books

[Lal]

The issue is what stores are they using?

What stores are under this Comichub group-is it all 3000 stores and they chose 100 or is it 1000 stores and they chose 100.

Because the customers that say in Iowa serve are NOT the same ones in Dallas serves.

So if that list is NOT including states like Texas it's not telling the whole story.




Something called SHIPPING might cause that as many stores in my city have had trouble getting books and at times could not ORDER certain books.
Static Season 1 for example- stores here do not have the last issue and issue 4 (mainly the Akira cover) wasn't on FOC lists for many stores.

Along with the fact a lot of variants for books don't make the FOC list. Yet somehow end up on Ebay. I have noticed it more with Marvel (looking at you Peter Parker and Miles Morales) and indy books like Dark Blood.

It's not disturbing when you understand the many ways to get a comic book. New or used.

If I did NOT care about the cover-why would I buy ANY certain DC titles when I see how many sales Midtown Comics have? Are they NOT having a sale right now where certain books from the past 6 months are there? Like Batman 89 was?

As long as you got an alternative way to get certain books cheaper-folks will take it.

Well, the icv2 state that their sample "do represent a variety of locations and store emphases." so it's safe to assume it isn't based on 20 stores in Iowa.
As for the shipping delays - an interesting point, but if it's a general problem I assume delayed issues would just show up at the following month table or just slightly drop in their ranking (if they arrived at the 3rd week of the month instead of the 2nd, for example), but thet wouldn't completely disappear from the tables.

The variant covers (with the exception of store exclusives) do show up at the lunar website before the FOC - https://www.lunardistribution.com/?f....3999938964844
I don't know what happened with Static season one - it's possible stores didn't order issues if the previous ones didn't sell well, but usually stores could easily pre-order issues for you if you ask them to do so in advance.

As for alternative ways to buy comics - of course there are other ways. But usually, Ebay isn't much cheaper than the regular cover price of comics if you buy them when once they are released and not weeks later (especially if you include shipping), and midtown comics are actually also physical stores, so it's very likely they are counted under sales to physical stores in NA.

[Username taken]

The thing is regarding sales, we just don't have accurate numbers. That's the way it is now and that's the way it's always been. Actual sales figures aren't made public so we don't actually know how much DC is generating in revenue and we don't even know what the costs of running the business is.

And it's important to note that there was a time that DC wasn't even second to Marvel. In the early to mid-90s, Image was a firm number two (2) to Marvel and DC wasn't shuttered.

Point is, if DC wasn't doing well enough to survive, WB would have shut it down by now. Period. They don't have to keep DC comics to maintain their copyrights (there are other ways to keep characters published that doesn't involve running an entire comics line). For DC to still be around in their current form, it means they are doing well enough to keep themselves afloat and thriving.

[skyvolt2000]

The thing is regarding sales, we just don't have accurate numbers. That's the way it is now and that's the way it's always been. Actual sales figures aren't made public so we don't actually know how much DC is generating in revenue and we don't even know what the costs of running the business is.

And it's important to note that there was a time that DC wasn't even second to Marvel. In the early to mid-90s, Image was a firm number two (2) to Marvel and DC wasn't shuttered.

Point is, if DC wasn't doing well enough to survive, WB would have shut it down by now. Period. They don't have to keep DC comics to maintain their copyrights (there are other ways to keep characters published that doesn't involve running an entire comics line). For DC to still be around in their current form, it means they are doing well enough to keep themselves afloat and thriving.

Most of the recent stuff that has happen to DC is due to stuff out of DC's control.

The layoffs? Thank AT&T for spending way more than they were earning.
Folks not having offices at WB? Work at home is still a thing and the building they might go into is not finished.
Discovery and Hbo Max merging and the selling of WB to Discovery.

Dc could have every top 100 spot and guess what the layoffs were going to HAPPEN. Because this is a SMALL part of the WB empire.

Not enough to warrant closing because DC includes comics, OGN, toys and other merchandise.

All this stuff boils down to DC is showcasing characters SOMEONE do not like.

[Vakanai]

Not trolling, I still feel the data provides a good sense of DC sales.

Good. Than you'll be relaxed and won't feel the need to keep responding, cheers.

What, I can't be chill and engaged in conversation? You have some strange opinions on what chilled people are allowed to do. Almost as strange as your opinions on DC rn.

[Shadowcat]

What, I can't be chill and engaged in conversation? You have some strange opinions on what chilled people are allowed to do. Almost as strange as your opinions on DC rn.

There was never an option to have an open dialogue and discourse. It was always meant to troll people.