Ms. Marvel official trailer

[Kaitou D. Kid]

What bugs me most about the supposed reasons for the change is that, honestly, all of them imply that Ms. Marvel is "lesser" than other characters.

If it's true they changed her powers to line her up more with Carol or to differentiate her from Reed, that would imply Kamala deserves to be stripped of her uniqueness more than Carol or Reed. Also, that adult heroes get first priority. It would be MCU Spider-Man all over again.

If the change had to do with the TV budget, that would imply Kamala wasn't as worthy for the big screen as other characters. Even though she is arguably Marvel's most ambitious character since the Silver Age and by-far the biggest "new" hero (along with Miles). Several reputable people have called her the Spider-Man of the 21st century. Obama of all people acknowledged her. If Peter Parker and Miles Morales deserve the big screen and a faithful adaptation, so does Kamala.

[Frontier]

What bugs me most about the supposed reasons for the change is that, honestly, all of them imply that Ms. Marvel is "lesser" than other characters.

If it's true they changed her powers to line her up more with Carol or to differentiate her from Reed, that would imply Kamala deserves to be stripped of her uniqueness more than Carol or Reed. Also, that adult heroes get first priority. It would be MCU Spider-Man all over again.

If the change had to do with the TV budget, that would imply Kamala wasn't as worthy for the big screen as other characters. Even though she is arguably Marvel's most ambitious character since the Silver Age and by-far the biggest "new" hero (along with Miles). Several reputable people have called her the Spider-Man of the 21st century. Obama of all people acknowledged her. If Peter Parker and Miles Morales deserve the big screen and a faithful adaptation, so does Kamala.

At least for the latter point, while I think you could probably tell a Ms. Marvel movie, there is definitely benefits to the serialized TV format that you can't do in a movie.

[marvelprince]

What bugs me most about the supposed reasons for the change is that, honestly, all of them imply that Ms. Marvel is "lesser" than other characters.

If it's true they changed her powers to line her up more with Carol or to differentiate her from Reed, that would imply Kamala deserves to be stripped of her uniqueness more than Carol or Reed. Also, that adult heroes get first priority. It would be MCU Spider-Man all over again.

If the change had to do with the TV budget, that would imply Kamala wasn't as worthy for the big screen as other characters. Even though she is arguably Marvel's most ambitious character since the Silver Age and by-far the biggest "new" hero (along with Miles). Several reputable people have called her the Spider-Man of the 21st century. Obama of all people acknowledged her. If Peter Parker and Miles Morales deserve the big screen and a faithful adaptation, so does Kamala.

These are all assumptions. I haven’t seen anyone but fans speculate that her powers changed because of Reed. With all the super soldiers and fliers and armored heroes we already have many characters with similar powers so I highly doubt that’s a factor. And the budget of these Disney+ shows are pretty much movie level already so I don’t see it as a lack of faith in the character. If anything I think it’s a show of faith they’re giving her an entire project to develop Kamala before she appears in the films. She’s getting a show along with multiple Avengers, She-Hulk who is really popular and Moon Knight who the company loves to push. Not seeing a negative.

The simplest explanation is probably the easiest in this case, they have wanna make her more visually and aesthetically congruent with the other Marvels. Not even Spider-Man is free of meddling (Ned got swapped with Ganke, Aunt May is the one who gives him the great power quote, he started out as Iron Man Jr vs the friendly Neighbour hood Spider-Man we knew).

[Kaitou D. Kid]

At least for the latter point, while I think you could probably tell a Ms. Marvel movie, there is definitely benefits to the serialized TV format that you can't do in a movie.

That's why I was excited for this. Finally a teen hero that gets an actual show!

But honestly, if it's between her powers and her getting a show, I would rather watch a movie where she has her 616 powers.

These are all assumptions. I haven’t seen anyone but fans speculate that her powers changed because of Reed. With all the super soldiers and fliers and armored heroes we already have many characters with similar powers so I highly doubt that’s a factor. And the budget of these Disney+ shows are pretty much movie level already so I don’t see it as a lack of faith in the character. If anything I think it’s a show of faith they’re giving her an entire project to develop Kamala before she appears in the films. She’s getting a show along with multiple Avengers, She-Hulk who is really popular and Moon Knight who the company loves to push. Not seeing a negative.

The simplest explanation is probably the easiest in this case, they have wanna make her more visually and aesthetically congruent with the other Marvels. Not even Spider-Man is free of meddling (Ned got swapped with Ganke, Aunt May is the one who gives him the great power quote, he started out as Iron Man Jr vs the friendly Neighbour hood Spider-Man we knew).

These are all speculations yes, and the Reed one especially sounds the least plausible. I already granted all that.

My problem is the way these explanations are being offered as if the subtext there isn't iffy. Sure, let's grant they did it to make her more visually and aesthetically congruent with the other Marvels. How is that a good thing and not to her detriment, much like MCU Spider-Man?

[marvelprince]

That's why I was excited for this. Finally a teen hero that gets an actual show!

But honestly, if it's between her powers and her getting a show, I would rather watch a movie where she has her 616 powers.



These are all speculations yes, and the Reed one especially sounds the least plausible. I already granted all that.

My problem is the way these explanations are being offered as if the subtext there isn't iffy. Sure, let's grant they did it to make her more visually and aesthetically congruent with the other Marvels. How is that a good thing and not to her detriment, much like MCU Spider-Man?

I guess I'm not seeing any sort of sinister subtext. Ms. Marvel will have some changes made to her powers and origin much like many MCU characters before her (see Captain Marvel, Star-Lord, Ultron and soon Moon Knight etc etc). You seem to think this is the detriment of the characters, but considering Spider-Man is the most popular hero in the world with the highest grossing solo comic book movie ever that fans love I don't really see how you can make the case that MCU Spidey was harmed by any of the changes. She's already been tapped to star in the sequel to a billion dollar movie and is getting a limited series already. I'm having a hard time thinking of another new character that has gotten this kind of push from Marvel before. You can argue Miles with the Spider-Verse but Miles has the benefit of the Spider-Man name and costarred with the original that people were already familiar with. To me everything they've done is showing that they care for the character and want to give her the best possible chance to succeed.

[LordUltimus]

[Bunch of Coconuts]

It’s great to see Iman’s reaction. A person who is very likely having many of their dreams come true amidst all the negative fan reaction and exclamations that they will not view the final product.

[Vic Vega]

I guess I'm not seeing any sort of sinister subtext. Ms. Marvel will have some changes made to her powers and origin much like many MCU characters before her (see Captain Marvel, Star-Lord, Ultron and soon Moon Knight etc etc). You seem to think this is the detriment of the characters, but considering Spider-Man is the most popular hero in the world with the highest grossing solo comic book movie ever that fans love I don't really see how you can make the case that MCU Spidey was harmed by any of the changes. She's already been tapped to star in the sequel to a billion dollar movie and is getting a limited series already. I'm having a hard time thinking of another new character that has gotten this kind of push from Marvel before. You can argue Miles with the Spider-Verse but Miles has the benefit of the Spider-Man name and costarred with the original that people were already familiar with. To me everything they've done is showing that they care for the character and want to give her the best possible chance to succeed.

Miles has yet to see a single second of play as a live action character.

Kamala will be in both a live action TV series and movie.

I swear, when fans want to see themselves as being abused, they will just make up stuff.

[Frontier]

I guess I'm not seeing any sort of sinister subtext. Ms. Marvel will have some changes made to her powers and origin much like many MCU characters before her (see Captain Marvel, Star-Lord, Ultron and soon Moon Knight etc etc). You seem to think this is the detriment of the characters, but considering Spider-Man is the most popular hero in the world with the highest grossing solo comic book movie ever that fans love I don't really see how you can make the case that MCU Spidey was harmed by any of the changes. She's already been tapped to star in the sequel to a billion dollar movie and is getting a limited series already. I'm having a hard time thinking of another new character that has gotten this kind of push from Marvel before. You can argue Miles with the Spider-Verse but Miles has the benefit of the Spider-Man name and costarred with the original that people were already familiar with. To me everything they've done is showing that they care for the character and want to give her the best possible chance to succeed.

In before Ms. Marvel season 3 where she gets rebooted into an even more comic-accurate costume and powerset .

She looks adorable!

[milesvspeter]

I guess I'm not seeing any sort of sinister subtext. Ms. Marvel will have some changes made to her powers and origin much like many MCU characters before her (see Captain Marvel, Star-Lord, Ultron and soon Moon Knight etc etc). You seem to think this is the detriment of the characters, but considering Spider-Man is the most popular hero in the world with the highest grossing solo comic book movie ever that fans love I don't really see how you can make the case that MCU Spidey was harmed by any of the changes. She's already been tapped to star in the sequel to a billion dollar movie and is getting a limited series already. I'm having a hard time thinking of another new character that has gotten this kind of push from Marvel before. You can argue Miles with the Spider-Verse but Miles has the benefit of the Spider-Man name and costarred with the original that people were already familiar with. To me everything they've done is showing that they care for the character and want to give her the best possible chance to succeed.

Spider-Man does not have the highest gross solo film. That's Black Panther. NWH is a big dumb team up film with Doctor Strange, many old villains and old Spidermen.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I guess I'm not seeing any sort of sinister subtext. Ms. Marvel will have some changes made to her powers and origin much like many MCU characters before her (see Captain Marvel, Star-Lord, Ultron and soon Moon Knight etc etc). You seem to think this is the detriment of the characters, but considering Spider-Man is the most popular hero in the world with the highest grossing solo comic book movie ever that fans love I don't really see how you can make the case that MCU Spidey was harmed by any of the changes. She's already been tapped to star in the sequel to a billion dollar movie and is getting a limited series already. I'm having a hard time thinking of another new character that has gotten this kind of push from Marvel before. You can argue Miles with the Spider-Verse but Miles has the benefit of the Spider-Man name and costarred with the original that people were already familiar with. To me everything they've done is showing that they care for the character and want to give her the best possible chance to succeed.

1. Subtext doesn't have to be sinister.

2. I don't think the power changes with the other characters you brought up were as radical as the changes with Kamala's powers.

3. I am not talking harm in terms of "profit" for Spider-Man, but in terms of whether it was actually good. Yeah, I know that's subjective, but there's plenty of heated discussions and articles all over the internet about this. NWH even draws attention to it with their "Iron Man Jr" easter egg, and was partly a course-correction film on top of an event. At the very least it's fair to call MCU Spider-Man somewhat controversial, and not universally beloved like the first two Raimi films and ITSV. The question is if we want Kamala's first live-action outing to have that same level of controversy or to be universally beloved like The Batman just was.

4. I'm not talking about the writers, but the producers and the studio. I'm sure the writers care for the character and are doing their best with what they have to work with.

[Tofali]

Spider-Man does not have the highest gross solo film. That's Black Panther. NWH is a big dumb team up film with Doctor Strange, many old villains and old Spidermen.

Black Panther I think still has highest debut solo and MCU threequels are hardly solos these days like CA: Civil War, Thor: Ragnarok and Spider-Man: NWH but box office numbers still remain unchanged.

[Thor-Ul]

There's a trivia piece on TV Tropes that says Kamala was originally planned to be Ms. Fantastic, until someone realised that the Ms. Marvel mantle was vacant and decided to use that instead (switching her fandom from Reed to Carol in the process). Though I'm not sure how true that is considering that the FF were being downplayed at the time.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...a/MsMarvel2014

I remember reading a interview about that. In effect it makes more logic for her to be Miss Fantastic. And well, the change support the hypotesis than Marvel was pushing for IP with absolute control. That also explained the made Kamala (and Moon Girl) inhumans.
(And by the way, OT, now with Amazon buying MGM, a movie about Namor will be made maybe next century).

[marvelprince]

In before Ms. Marvel season 3 where she gets rebooted into an even more comic-accurate costume and powerset .

She looks adorable!

Lol I was going to say I can see them doing a NWH with her powers down the line.

[Snoop Dogg]

the new powers make me vomit, but if she makes a purple motorcycle, i'm sorry, but that's badass