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  1. #61
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Irony thy name is creator intent!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I disagree with Kamala being malleable. She's made appearances in other Marvel media that remained true to who the character is. The Avengers video game being the biggest piece of media she's appeared in this far. It's enough for the character to not be a complete unknown.
    Sure but she's not embedded in the public consciousness like Batman or Superman. Most will shrug at the powers thing and move on.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    nahhhhh, it really shouldn't. I don’t trust that any xmen teen tv show should have heavy disneyisms that you cannot see past and this is what this trailer has in full abundance. Yes, X-MEN has featured many younger mutants but it was more of a brutally coming of age stories they got that yes was set in a grown up word. that is something that cannot be erased from the lore, to erase that is to dumb it down. younger mutants- X23, Jubliee, Rogue, hope summers, Magik and the new mutants Cable took in to train to become X-Force.

    None of those characters I mentioned will work well in the ms marvel universe, judging from the trailer any more than Katniss from Hunger Games would. I alluded more to Buffy and harry potter since that is the setting the younger source material of mutants fits. Ironically buffy and harry potter itself took influence from x-men. I will rather have Disney not make any x-men tv show for teens if it is too similar to this ms marvel trailer.
    Have to disagree with that.

    X-Men have so many different characters and teams. Pigeon holing them all as being dark, with mature themes about racism cripples their widespread appeal imo. There’s no harm in having different types of X content that isn’t on the same level as God Loves, Man Kills. As I mentioned before, there are X teams and characters that can fit perfectly into the tone Ms Marvel seems to be going for, even if it’s just set in the Xavier School, you can have an X-Men offshoot that just deals with how the kids deal with being in the school, whilst other series/films deal with the heavier aspects.

    X-Men is a very diverse property that should not be afraid to branch out to different niches and demographics. I don’t want every X-Men adjacent film to deal with the exact same themes. Mutants are outcasts, which I reckon really vibes with the teen demographic. Ms Marvel is clearly going for this idea too, with Kamala having problems at school due to her fandom and living in “Fantasy Land”, not to mention being Muslim.

    I’m not saying all X projects should be looking for this feel, but there’s certainly room for one X property to be like this.

    Anyway, I won’t talk about X Men anymore as this is a Ms Marvel show.

    The trailer has really got me more hyped.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wouldn't say it doesn't matter in so far as I think her powers and the way they're depicted are a very intrinsic part of her character and the themes of her story as a hero.

    Replacing that for Kree tech just doesn't have the same feeling.
    Yes but the "XYZ just won't be the same because of ABC" happens with every adaptation, MCU or otherwise. I think if the rest of the show and themes etc hold up, it'll be fine.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Sure, I can respect that. But that's not the first time Hollywood has diverged from a creator's opinions or intent. If the show works, then it'll be fine. Kamala's character comes from her, well, character and her being a fangirl and navigating school and the Muslim background. The power set matters, sure, but in her case it doesn't really really matter to the point of being a knock against an unseen show.

    Like, did Vision not work because his powers came from an Infinity stone and he was built by Stark/Banner? Changes happen in adaptations all the time. Whether it's for the better or worse, we'll find out.

    In the MCU, Spidey got a costume from Stark. And that rankled a lotta die-hards. But the majority of the movie going audience didn't care because the core of Spidey's character (a kid from Queens trying to do good and motivated by guilt) was still there and worked pretty well. So whether Kamala succeeds or fails really won't come down to her power set.
    Last edited by newparisian; 03-16-2022 at 08:47 AM.

  7. #67
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    Interesting so from the article snippet it seems clear they seemed to not at all be invested in the comics powerset and just went back and forth on what to change it too. Fair enough

  8. #68
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    Sure, I can respect that. But that's not the first time Hollywood has diverged from a creator's opinions or intent. If the show works, then it'll be fine. Kamala's character comes from her, well, character and her being a fangirl and navigating school and the Muslim background. The power set matters, sure, but in her case it doesn't really really matter to the point of being a knock against an unseen show.

    Like, did Vision not work because his powers came from an Infinity stone and he was built by Stark/Banner? Changes happen in adaptations all the time. Whether it's for the better or worse, we'll find out.

    In the MCU, Spidey got a costume from Stark. And that rankled a lotta die-hards. But the majority of the movie going audience didn't care because the core of Spidey's character (a kid from Queens trying to do good and motivated by guilt) was still there and worked pretty well. So whether Kamala succeeds or fails really won't come down to her power set.
    Disagree completely. Her powers was often used to reflect Kamala's feeling and mental state. The themetic value they had to her character is now lost thanks to this change.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Disagree completely. Her powers was often used to reflect Kamala's feeling and mental state. The themetic value they had to her character is now lost thanks to this change.
    Do you know whether the new powers won't be used to the same effect?

  10. #70
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    Do you know whether the new powers won't be used to the same effect?
    Green Lantern powers won't allow her to shrink and be literally small when she's feeling depressed, morph into something when she's in a panic or grow in size when excitable. It will not be the same.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Green Lantern powers won't allow her to shrink and be literally small when she's feeling depressed, morph into something when she's in a panic or grow in size when excitable. It will not be the same.
    Ok so you don't know because the show's not out yet.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 03-16-2022 at 02:05 PM.

  12. #72

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    There's an inerrant difference between having powers and getting powers from an object (as it appears to be here with her and those bracelets), even more so in teen books. A lot of those in the super hero genre are about how the character navigates growing up while also learning how to live with powers. If you can just take the bracelets off and no longer have them, it removes part of the weight of having them.

    I mean, it's like if in the early Spider-Man comics, all his powers came from his web shooters. If things got too difficult and he could just take them off and not deal with it. He wouldn't have to worry about things like sticking to his desk in class or his Spider-Sense going off or something like that.

    It doesn't kill the character, but it does take away a bit from it.
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  13. #73
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    Ok so you don't know because the show's not out yet.
    I don't need to watch the show to know the change will fundamentally alter the character relationship with her powers and how they function. The cartoonish expressions won't be possible with quantum bands. Next you will tell me there is no difference if Spider-Man has web shooters or organic webbing
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 03-16-2022 at 02:05 PM.

  14. #74
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    Sure, I can respect that. But that's not the first time Hollywood has diverged from a creator's opinions or intent. If the show works, then it'll be fine. Kamala's character comes from her, well, character and her being a fangirl and navigating school and the Muslim background. The power set matters, sure, but in her case it doesn't really really matter to the point of being a knock against an unseen show.

    Like, did Vision not work because his powers came from an Infinity stone and he was built by Stark/Banner? Changes happen in adaptations all the time. Whether it's for the better or worse, we'll find out.

    In the MCU, Spidey got a costume from Stark. And that rankled a lotta die-hards. But the majority of the movie going audience didn't care because the core of Spidey's character (a kid from Queens trying to do good and motivated by guilt) was still there and worked pretty well. So whether Kamala succeeds or fails really won't come down to her power set.
    Not only that but Hulk being basically a result of re-creating the Super Soldier serum, but I guess using the wrong type of radiation, although I know that's also an idea from THE ULTIMATES.

    Vision was technically built by Ultron (Similar in a few ways to the comic although he used a copy of the original Human torch's body) and Helen Cho, but Banner/Stark/Jarvis and Thor put the finishing touches on.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 03-16-2022 at 10:01 AM.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I don't need to watch the show to know the change will fundamentally alter the character relationship with her powers and how they function. The cartoonish expressions won't be possible with quantum bands. Next you will tell me there is no difference if Spider-Man has web shooters or organic webbing
    It absolutely doesn't make a difference how Spidey shoots his webs. Yes the web shooters show his ingenuity but so can a bunch of other things. At the end of the day, whether they're organic or mechanical, whether he makes his suit or Stark does, what's the essence of Spidey that shouldn't be messed with, lest he become unrecognizable? It's him being a kid from Queens who just wants to do good, who (as he told Stark in CW) believes that if one can do something but then doesn't, then bad things happen, then it's your fault. As long as that's intact, everything else is 100% cosmetic and only matters to purists. Which is fine. Not saying people can't have these opinions. But Wolverine is meant to be a short furry guy who thematically has a chip on his shoulder and is a firebrand. Did casting Jackman, a tall pretty boy, ruin the character or make him "lesser"? Most that matter (i.e. majority of movie going audience) will say no.

    Like, hey, at the end of the day, as long as an adaptation gets the core right and works in a bunch of other ways, I think we fans, who will be well sated with superhero material in 2022, should be a bit more c'est la vie about it, even if Ms. Marvel already has an "original sin" counting against it. But that's just me.

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