David Xanatos (Gargoyles) vs. John Marcone (Dresden Files)

[Tami]

The 'no kids' thing is bullshit. Drug dealers who don't start with kids end up with nobody to sell to.

Just tell that the the drug dealers who broke Marcone's rules regarding children. It was not a pretty sight.

[Primetime Harder]

Also, I predict Harry somehow managing to get Black staff involved. After all, David has broken the laws of magic multiple times...

Ol' Ebenezar has bigger fish to fry. He'd let Hoss handle this one on his own. And besides, there's no way to prove Xanatos has broken any of the Laws unless Harry manages to catch a glimpse of something in a soulgaze. Plus I'm pretty sure extrauniversal violations don't count.

This is how I see things going:

-Gang war erupts, Xanatos starts getting a slight upper hand

-Marcone contacts Harry and grants him an opportunity to bust up the new bad guys' operation, using the distraction Harry provides to orchestrate a significant counterattack

-Xanatos finds out about the ties between bloodlines and magic here, and sets his genetic scientists to the task of either figuring out how to give him wizardly powers, or cloning an army of super-wizards

-Xanatos feigns defeat and lies low while The Project is being worked on, continuing to make weak efforts in playing a game of evil-mastermind chess with Marcone

-Marcone sees through the ploy, discovers The Project, and points Harry in its direction; possibly with some Einherjar for backup

-Harry and Xanatos actually meet; Harry soulgazes Xanatos before Hexing the crap out of his battlesuit and forcing him to retreat

-With The Project a failure, Xanatos decides it's time to start playing hardball and calls in the Fae

-Xanatos starts getting a major upper hand, but Marcone does his homework and discerns that these aren't "real" Fae

-Either through Harry or the rights afforded him by the Accords, he brings this to the Courts' attention

-Thus it's revealed that Outsiders have invaded and are masquerading as Fae royalty

-MAB IS PISSED

-Endgame

[Hazard]

That's... a nice piece fanfiction?

No, I can't really call it nice since it undersells Xanatos by a huge order of magnitude.

Honestly, this is not a gang war.

Xanatos can literally buy out Marcone.

[Dalak]

Xanatos can literally buy out Marcone.

Marcone can only be bought out of the businesses he owns and runs if he chooses to sell. The fight comes in with Xanatos trying to force that sale, or when buying/selling is seen to be pointless.

[Hazard]

Marcone can only be bought out of the businesses he owns and runs if he chooses to sell. The fight comes in with Xanatos trying to force that sale, or when buying/selling is seen to be pointless.

That would be only the small ones which are mostly irrelevant. As in the ones he owns completely.

Marcone doesn't own an international corporation and none of the business we know he has are bigger than a brothel or a restaurant.

Most of his assets should be in banks and shares in other organizations.

Which Xanatos can literally buy.

Even with the small ones it is just a matter of buying everything around them and providing legitimate competition.

Honestly, things never have to escalate beyond normal human level.

[Dalak]

That would be only the small ones which are mostly irrelevant. As in the ones he owns completely.

Marcone doesn't own an international corporation and none of the business we know he has are bigger than a brothel or a restaurant.

Most of his assets should be in banks and shares in other organizations.

Which Xanatos can literally buy.

Even with the small ones it is just a matter of buying everything around them and providing legitimate competition.

Honestly, things never have to escalate beyond normal human level.

Actually Marcone's sticking to Chicago was to keep from drawing major national/international flack from law enforcement which is why he owns the town as far as I know.

I don't think you can beat a master of illegitimate means legitimately, in the underworld Marcone's reputation is well earned. He has many options to ensure loyalty, and to guarantee that such business purchases won't be finalized one way or another. Then there's the fact that Marcone built a bank that holds more $ than many nations in cash alone, Xanatos can't buy or crash that. Nor can he push Marcone out of the Unseelie Accords.

[Hazard]

Actually Marcone's sticking to Chicago was to keep from drawing major national/international flack from law enforcement which is why he owns the town as far as I know.

I don't think you can beat a master of illegitimate means legitimately, in the underworld Marcone's reputation is well earned. He has many options to ensure loyalty, and to guarantee that such business purchases won't be finalized one way or another. Then there's the fact that Marcone built a bank that holds more $ than many nations in cash alone, Xanatos can't buy or crash that. Nor can he push Marcone out of the Unseelie Accords.

As long as you have enough money you totally can.

That's the beauty of money.

Besides, if we're talking using rep, Xanatos exceeds Marcone by a vast order of magnitude there too.

The Unseelie Accords are irrelevant here. I don't really see a supernatural war happening. No one is that stupid.

Edit: Seriously, Marcone nearly died when a minor Fomor Lord decided to storm his fortress despite all his countermeasures. Supernatural is not good for anyone.

[Basara]

Why are the Gargoyles Fae considered Outsiders? Nowhere in the OP does it say that Xanatos is invading Dresden Earth. It could just as easily be Marcone invading Gargoyles Earth. The "Mab will destroy Xanatos because he and his allies are Outsiders" arguement doesn't hold any water.

Hazard is quite right. Xanatos is a much better businessman than Marcone. He can do hostile takeovers of all of Marcone's legitimate business'. Xanatos also has access to Puck's knowledge, so he knows that as long as he doesn't attack Marcone's properties, Monoc Securities will likely not get involved. They were hired to protect Marcone, not to do Marcone's bidding as he pleases. Marcone is going to have to convince Odin to get involved, and "I'm losing his business empire" isn't exactly a winning argument.

Xanatos has really nothing to fear from Marcone. He has Puck, the Clan, Fox, and his own Steel Clan to protect him from whatever Marcone throws at him.

One more thing: Puck is a beast and has actual legitimate high power feats (like effortlessly turning all the humans of New York into a freaking Gargoyle.). Neither Odin nor Mab have feats to compare with Puck's.

Marcone is boned in all three scenarios.

[Dalak]

As long as you have enough money you totally can.

That's the beauty of money.

Besides, if we're talking using rep, Xanatos exceeds Marcone by a vast order of magnitude there too.

The Unseelie Accords are irrelevant here. I don't really see a supernatural war happening. No one is that stupid.

Edit: Seriously, Marcone nearly died when a minor Fomor Lord decided to storm his fortress despite all his countermeasures. Supernatural is not good for anyone.

You are misunderstanding me - No amount of money is worth living paralyzed from the neck down or dying horribly for. I said Marcone's reputation was earned, meaning that he will use scare tactics, blackmail, and deadly threats that aren't bluffs. Chicagoans have no reason to fear Xanatos, and every reason to fear Marcone if they do something he doesn't want done. It'll also be easier for a Mobster to build up fear or respect for his reputation than a Buisnessman.

If Xanatos is trying to push Marcone out and take over entirely, he has to take over the Supernatural turf as well.

[Hazard]

You are misunderstanding me - No amount of money is worth living paralyzed from the neck down or dying horribly for. I said Marcone's reputation was earned, meaning that he will use scare tactics, blackmail, and deadly threats that aren't bluffs. Chicagoans have no reason to fear Xanatos, and every reason to fear Marcone if they do something he doesn't want done. It'll also be easier for a Mobster to build up fear or respect for his reputation than a Buisnessman.

You so not understand the power of money.

Seriously, Marcone can't threaten everyone and certainly not people who may live in other parts of the world and not people who are filthy rich enough to have their own bodyguards.

If Xanatos is trying to push Marcone out and take over entirely, he has to take over the Supernatural turf as well.

Not really. He just needs to take over everything else for him to lose that on his own.

One more thing: Puck is a beast and has actual legitimate high power feats (like effortlessly turning all the humans of New York into a freaking Gargoyle.). Neither Odin nor Mab have feats to compare with Puck's.

Good point.

Well, like I said early, I really doubt it will come to it, but if it does (and Xanatos is just the kind of guy who can find a way around the restrictions) well, Puck can bring a lot of power with a lot less restrictions compared to Dresden creatures.

[Dalak]

Why are the Gargoyles Fae considered Outsiders? Nowhere in the OP does it say that Xanatos is invading Dresden Earth. It could just as easily be Marcone invading Gargoyles Earth. The "Mab will destroy Xanatos because he and his allies are Outsiders" arguement doesn't hold any water.

I'll answer by rephrasing your question: "Why are alternate reality versions of Fae considered Outsiders to this reality?"

I don't see anyone assuming taking over an entire City in an alternate reality isn't an invasion either, or that Marcone is going to start a conflict with this sort of foe unprovoked.

Hazard is quite right. Xanatos is a much better businessman than Marcone. He can do hostile takeovers of all of Marcone's legitimate business'. Xanatos also has access to Puck's knowledge, so he knows that as long as he doesn't attack Marcone's properties, Monoc Securities will likely not get involved. They were hired to protect Marcone, not to do Marcone's bidding as he pleases. Marcone is going to have to convince Odin to get involved, and "I'm losing his business empire" isn't exactly a winning argument.

How does Puck know how an Alternate Odin works?

Xanatos has really nothing to fear from Marcone. He has Puck, the Clan, Fox, and his own Steel Clan to protect him from whatever Marcone throws at him.

One more thing: Puck is a beast and has actual legitimate high power feats (like effortlessly turning all the humans of New York into a freaking Gargoyle.). Neither Odin nor Mab have feats to compare with Puck's.

Marcone is boned in all three scenarios.

Are you saying Oberon is going to free Puck to allow Xanatos to take over a city from another reality?

I don't think anyone but an unfettered Puck is stopping a determined Kincaid or Goodman Grey from killing Xanatos if it came to that. Kincaid makes his living killing highly powerful supernatural foes, and Grey's shapeshifting can get him close enough to kill David while allowing him to escape.

[Dalak]

You so not understand the power of money.

Seriously, Marcone can't threaten everyone and certainly not people who may live in other parts of the world and not people who are filthy rich enough to have their own bodyguards.

Xanatos buying out folks around the globe would be damning proof of attempting some sort of takeover/invasion to any possible allies Marcone tries to enlist.

Not really. He just needs to take over everything else for him to lose that on his own.

So how is he eliminating his Supernatural Bank like this, since he can't buy out the building or get the same sort of access or reputation with the Supernatural folks in this universe?

Well, like I said early, I really doubt it will come to it, but if it does (and Xanatos is just the kind of guy who can find a way around the restrictions) well, Puck can bring a lot of power with a lot less restrictions compared to Dresden creatures.

Despite the tropes, I've never been comfortable granting Xanatos or Money a 'Popeye on Spinach' auto-win just because, and rightly or wrongly that's what I'm seeing here and why I responded to begin with.

[Guy1]

Right, let's list out Xanatos's prep feats and general feats and compare, same with Marcone.

[Guy1]

Just tell that the the drug dealers who broke Marcone's rules regarding children. It was not a pretty sight.

Hi Tami!

[Yeoman]

Actually any half-way decent wizard on his employ could Hex those Steel Clan robots or Xanatos' personal suit, and he more than has the resources to hire several. T

If he could he'd have done it by now. We've seen all of one wizard level practitioner who was for hire. Everyone else were far enough down in power level we have no reason to believe they can pull a hex.