David Xanatos (Gargoyles) vs. John Marcone (Dresden Files)

[Daenarys Stormborn]

Tami noted Mab's feats. I think those are more impressive than Puck. They are different types of feats though. On Harry, I don't think it would make much sense for him to have more raw power than Merlin even now. He might though... I would say everyone on the senior council besides maybe the new guy, Cowl, Luccio in her prime, and maybe Morgan are-were above him outright. Corpsetaker had more raw power pre knight (Ghost stories confirmed it) but probably no more. On hexing...didn't Cowl hex Chicago with minor prep during the kemmler thing? I believe Butcher said Cowl is coming back in book 19... So Harry still has a ways to go before he can be considered top of the top power slingers.

[Yeoman]

I'm with Surtur here, the Merlin held off an army of vamps with only the Gatekeeper to help him with his ward, and is said to be the best wizard in the world when it comes to wards and defensive-type magic.

Which is more skilled, not more powerful. Molly is better at Harry than a number of things. And was with only a year or two of training. That doesn't make her have more juice.

You are using Molly's lack of her aura messing with tech as a reason she can't Hexus anymore.

No, I'm saying four things.

1) The reason she can't do Hexus anymore is because we have no proof that she can, and one very good reason to believe that she can't.

2) Even if she can still do it, it's because she's one of the high muckity mucks of Fearie, not because she's got magic.

3) Even if she can, for whatever reason Marcone can't hire her, and thus it's useless to the purposes of this thread.

4) Our main weapons are fear, surprise, our fanatical devotion to the Pope and snazzy red uniforms.

[Dalak]

Which is more skilled, not more powerful. Molly is better at Harry than a number of things. And was with only a year or two of training. That doesn't make her have more juice.

Shielding is one of the most energy intensive things Harry does, and even with his Shield Bracelets he goes on about that many many times. 2 guys held off an army with one, and you think it has nothing to do with power, just skill? And then there's how he instantly stepped in and organized the fight against the Mordite monster - he stopped it from moving away and got everyone working together. He also seemed to think that both he and Rashid/Gatekeeper could affect it alone, but the other senior counsel members needed to pair up.

Harry even thinks the Merlin is stronger than he even if he only used the words "You don't become Merlin by collecting Bottle Caps." He also showed how hard it was to affect regular un-animated mordite.

I don't think that's just skill.

No, I'm saying four things.

1) The reason she can't do Hexus anymore is because we have no proof that she can, and one very good reason to believe that she can't.

2) Even if she can still do it, it's because she's one of the high muckity mucks of Fearie, not because she's got magic.

3) Even if she can, for whatever reason Marcone can't hire her, and thus it's useless to the purposes of this thread.

4) Our main weapons are fear, surprise, our fanatical devotion to the Pope and snazzy red uniforms.

1 & 2) Harry specifically mentions the unbalanced fields of energy around wizards, and I've brought up how Fae have far more control over their magic than mortals. That isn't proof Molly cannot affect tech should she want, and if you are of the opinion that the high-muckity-mucks of Faerie can affect tech then Immortal Magic Can Affect Technology and this whole argument is meaningless. Either way, until Butcher comes out with more info on Molly we're at an impasse here.

3) The debate in this thread is over, when the Outsider angle was out Marcone lost his ability to convince any seriously powerful allies to help and thus loses any combat, as I've said twice at least.

4) I've bribed Cardinal Biggles to subject you to the Comfy Chair whenever you least suspect him. Beware :P

[Yeoman]

Shielding is one of the most energy intensive things Harry does, and even with his Shield Bracelets he goes on about that many many times. 2 guys held off an army with one, and you think it has nothing to do with power, just skill? And then there's how he instantly stepped in and organized the fight against the Mordite monster - he stopped it from moving away and got everyone working together. He also seemed to think that both he and Rashid/Gatekeeper could affect it alone, but the other senior counsel members needed to pair up.

Harry even thinks the Merlin is stronger than he even if he only used the words "You don't become Merlin by collecting Bottle Caps." He also showed how hard it was to affect regular un-animated mordite.

I don't think that's just skill.

Or it's just as likely one is achieving that result by skill and power, and the other is just brute forcing it. Like you can design a pulley to lift something without using as much force, or, if you're strong enough, you can just brute force it.

[Surtur]

What has Harry done that you feel members of the council could not do? Also I am quite aware a lot of council members are a lot more skilled, but why you think it is a case of them merely having more skill, as opposed to more skill *and* power?