Should superheroes be called out on their privilege?

[Totoro Man]

if there is a compelling story-based or character-based reason for doing so... then it's fine to do this every now and then.

but it has to make sense based on the characters and their history.

when W'Kabi and Nakia both try to make the argument to T'Challa that Wakanda should be more proactive and interact with the world... they're doing this because they believed that T'Chaka was wrong to be an isolationist. while they were not DIRECTLY calling T'Challa out on his privilege... they were doing something very similar. they were arguing that they should be actively using their privileged position to help other people more than they were already doing.

in that scenario... it makes sense and works well within the context of the larger narrative.

as for the article: the following quote exemplifies why I think it's frivolous exercise in class anxiety and hand-wringing.

"The DC universe is full of heroes who can fly, deadlift tanks, and break the sound barrier with nothing but their bodies, yet Batman remains the most popular DC hero by far because he has the superpower that every person seems to want: vast wealth combined with zero obligations."

the author is making an assumption about why millions of people love this character. and it's an assumption that's simply not true. the wealth is part of the Batman mythos. but there are people who don't give a crap about money that still enjoy these stories. if I have enough food to eat the foods I like and live in relative safety and comfort... I'm not gonna lose a minute of sleep if somebody out there makes more money in a week than I'll ever see in a lifetime.

besides, that statement ignores the fact that Batman CREATES his own sense of obligation towards the city. just because his civilian alter-ego is somebody who was born into wealth, and nobody expects much from him, doesn't mean that the character has no obligations at all!

I've seen Marxist-inspired critiques of Batman before... when the Keaton Batman movie came out some people complained that Batman is more concerned about property rights than inequality... because he's saving some rich people from getting mugged. guess he was just supposed to stand there and watch them got robbed? maybe he should have only intervened after one of them got murdered!

this article seems to be complaining that Bruce Wayne isn't Che Guevara, Friedrich Engels, Mao Zedong, or Pablo Neruda. I mean, they have movies about those guys. go watch them! people don't expect that sort of thing when they're watching a movie about Batman.

[Zelena]

For years, superheroes like Batman have bee called out on their privilege, stating that people like him should be using their wealth and status in helping their cities as opposed to just beating up bad guys and criminals. A lot of articles and blogs have been putting a lot thought into this argument. Now, this doesn't apply to all superheroes, like Spiderman (who is poor), or Superman and Wonder Woman (who mostly fights cosmic aliens and gods). But it does affect a lot of them. So, should they be called on it? Or, is a lot of thought being put into nothing?

Here is an article about Batman's privilege:

https://www.avclub.com/matt-reeves-t...yne-1848661503

I don’t understand the question: Batman’s “privilege” is about being Bruce Wayne, a wealthy heir and not about being a super-hero…

[kjn]

No. If we start calling heroes out on their wealth (Bruce Wayne, Tony stark) than it's only a matter of time before it seeps into issues of patriotism, race and gender, and characters like Superman and Captain America become walking bulls eyes for people with political agendas.

I don't mind if there is a progressive or conservative writer, who wants to input their message into comics from time to time, but otherwise I'd prefer to keep politics out of comic books alltogether.

Politics have been in comic books since the day they appeared. Not only in that they were built on political assumptions or held some political ideals at their core, but many had explicit political agendas. The most blatant example is probably early Wonder Woman. Early Superman also held a firm political vision, not only the American Dream, but one where that dream applied to every American, no matter their origin.

The pretension to keep politics out of media is a luxury and a mirage for the people with privilege who are confident that their privileges will remain and do not want to think of the people lacking the same opportunities or rights. It is unthinking and unreflective conservatism.

[CSTowle]

If it can be done well and also be entertaining at the same time, sure. If not entertaining then it's going to be just preachy to an audience that's looking for escapism and story. Best case they agree with what you're preaching, worst case you're turning them away from your book.

[Jim Kelly]

Some of Denny O'Neil's plots for the Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories took extreme short cuts. For GREEN LANTERN 76, he has to move very fast to set up the scenario that has Hal going off with Ollie to find America. Black characters didn't appear in the comics that often--it was mostly all white characters and aliens. So there's little subtlety in suddenly bringing in an African-American to speak for the writer and call out Hal for something that was really due to editorial group-think. There was no reason to believe Hal wasn't doing a lot for people of colour, off panel. Calling him out on not having done enough is a bit too expedient. But comic books didn't have time back then to establish all this through a series of instalments over several issues--they had to cut to the chase. Thus O'Neil called on the magic Black man to do that work for him.

[babyblob]

Early Superman can be called very woke. Look at all the stuff he did. Went after wife beaters, after doctors who were scamming people with bad Meds, going after gambling dens, drunk drivers, unsafe drivers, child crime, going against those who profited from child labor, going after arms dealers and war profiteers, stock scammers and manipulators, Heck he destroyed a whole slum neighborhood so that the government would replace it with better housing.

And this was just the first couple of years.

Then there are the politics of the Early Captain America Comics and Human Torch, Ill even say a bit of Sub Mariner even though in the Golden Age he was the worst character ever. The Wonder Woman Comics, and many more that I am forgetting about.

So yes Politics in comics have always been around. Everyone who claims this is a new thing either has not read or heard of the Golden Age or just ignores it so they can yell about a gay POC being in Comics and how Woke they are.

I dont like being beaten over the head with politics on comics and that does not happen very often. But every writer has had parts of what they believe and how they feel in their books.


Now yelling about what a fake character like Bruce Wayne does with his money if a bit goofy. But each their own.

[ed2962]

It wasn't that black and white. O'Neil showed Hal could learn and grow when it comes to social issues. Oliver meanwhile, is the guy who threw Roy out on his ass when he found out about his drug addiction.

Hell, most Hal antis ignore that Hal helped Roy get clean.

Yes. Ollie is actually a big A-hole towards Roy in that particular story. He even backhands Roy when Roy asks for help! But speaking of calling out heroes, Roy does just that at the end of the story.

[Jim Kelly]

If I had to say what bugged me about super-heroes, their income wouldn't be at the top of my list. The number of heroes who are perfect looking and athletically superior are annoying. Supposedly, most of us who bought comics were nerds who were picked on in school by the jocks. Yet the jocks are the guys that get to be super-heroes? It's hard for a nerd to identify with the guy who beat you up in school and made fun of you in front of the whole class.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Politics have been in comic books since the day they appeared. Not only in that they were built on political assumptions or held some political ideals at their core, but many had explicit political agendas. The most blatant example is probably early Wonder Woman. Early Superman also held a firm political vision, not only the American Dream, but one where that dream applied to every American, no matter their origin.

The pretension to keep politics out of media is a luxury and a mirage for the people with privilege who are confident that their privileges will remain and do not want to think of the people lacking the same opportunities or rights. It is unthinking and unreflective conservatism.

Thank I will try to remember that when I'm reading through the dozen old political superhero comics where Batman is pulling out the bat crayons from his utility belt.

Privilege theory is bunk, it's the philosophical far left wing counterpart to Trump's right wing neo fascism. The two groups feed on each other, and I don't want that kind of toxic politics in my comic books.

I'm a liberal by the way, thank you very much, but keep bs politics (SWJ's vs Comicgaters) out of comics.

[Zelena]

If I had to say what bugged me about super-heroes, their income wouldn't be at the top of my list. The number of heroes who are perfect looking and athletically superior are annoying. Supposedly, most of us who bought comics were nerds who were picked on in school by the jocks. Yet the jocks are the guys that get to be super-heroes? It's hard for a nerd to identify with the guy who beat you up in school and made fun of you in front of the whole class.

Actually Peter Parker was a nerd at school, harassed and mocked by bullies and wasn’t drawn as an athletic young man… at the beginning at least…

[kjn]

Privilege theory is bunk, it's the philosophical far left wing counterpart to Trump's right wing neo fascism. The two groups feed on each other, and I don't want that kind of toxic politics in my comic books.

I'm a liberal by the way, thank you very much, but keep bs politics (SWJ's vs Comicgaters) out of comics.

I will borrow the response from someone much more well-spoken than I am.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

[FFJamie94]

If the story warrants it, then yeah. I like what's going on in Nightwing for example where Dick wants to actually change the City for the better. It serves as a nice piece of background noise for when the action starts.
However, time and time again we see these think pieces being written up and after you've read one, you've kind of read them all.
There are interesting concepts to be taken from them and a talented writer can work wonders with that kind of script, but your average Person who is just making that article probably doesn't care all that much.
Comics aren't exactly known for being high art, most of it is run of the mill stuff that gets looked down upon by just about every other industry (except the game's industry). When People pick up a Batman book, most of the time they just want to read Batman punch something. When someone picks up an Iron Man book, they want to see Iron Man punch something. Unless you're really into the character and know a lot about the Character, you aren't really going to care about that Background noise.

[Captain Nostalgia]

I will borrow the response from someone much more well-spoken than I am.

Martin Luther King (One of the greatest individuals in human history I may add) has nothing to do with the philosophical development of privilege theory that was crafted in the 1970's, and rooted before that by people in Universities, who if alive today, would most likely be tweeting support for Venezuela.

When you study this privilege stuff, (just like if you study Steve Bannon's philisophical inspirations) you will find a lot of undesirable political extremists in the woodwork, and this is the politics that I am referring to that has been creeping into comic books (The left wing SJW's vs the right wing Comicgater's) which is why I don't want Bruce Wayne deconstructed on his privilege.

I therefore resent the fact that if I don't want politics regularly intruding into my comic books, that it somehow makes me a defacto conservative reactionary, which is what you've implied with your wording.

Ask yourself, what kind of political ideology labels people as villains or accessories to a crime, just because you don't want to support its ideas or at best remains neutral. Peace.

[Jim Kelly]

Actually Peter Parker was a nerd at school, harassed and mocked by bullies and wasn’t drawn as an athletic young man… at the beginning at least…

At the beginning at least. But that's like a couple of stories by Ditko. Then Peter stops wearing glasses, he's got muscles, lives the jock life and dates super-models. We're supposed to identify with him because of his origin story, but the bulk of his adventures, he's not that person anymore.

[babyblob]

At the beginning at least. But that's like a couple of stories by Ditko. Then Peter stops wearing glasses, he's got muscles, lives the jock life and dates super-models. We're supposed to identify with him because of his origin story, but the bulk of his adventures, he's not that person anymore.

I dont know why everyone wants to identify with characters anyway be they comic or tv or whatever. I read comics as an escape. I dont want to spend a lot of time reading about real world issues all that much. Maybe that is why I love the Silver age Marvel and DC so much. Dc is so goofy in the Silver Age at least in the time I really love the 50s and 60s.

Marvel was fighting super villain and planet eaters. I was fine with that and love it.

I dont want to read a story about a 41 year old nut job who lives at home and takes care of his disabled father.