You fears/wishes/predictions for the post-Dark Crisis DCU

[Superboy-Prime]

Jon and Yara and Jace deserve the time to be themselves with zero expectations of them filling roles not designed for them.

This logic might apply for Jon, but it's mighty ironic to use this rhetoric to advocate for those other characters to be Batman and Wonder Woman when Jace and Yara were literally created for the roles. Like, talking about roles "not designed for them," and then trying to assign those roles to characters who've been Nightwing or whatever for 20 years is hilarious.

I'm sure you're right, though. You're always right.

[garazza]

This logic might apply for Jon, but it's mighty ironic to use this rhetoric to advocate for those other characters to be Batman and Wonder Woman when Jace and Yara were literally created for the roles. Like, talking about roles "not designed for them," and then trying to assign those roles to characters who've been Nightwing or whatever for 20 years is hilarious.

I'm sure you're right, though. You're always right.

Being designed to be the replacement for someone else isn't exactly a strong foundation for a new character to be built on especially when the character that is being replaced isn't actually replaced and still maintains their original position of prominence and there are still several other characters before the new ones that would make more sense to replace them with. Why does Jace have to be the "black Batman" and Yara the "Brazilian Wonder Woman" before they get to be "Jace Fox" and "Yara Flor?" We know why Dick or Donna or Cassie would be able to fill the roles of their predecessors, but why does Jace or Yara? It would've made more sense to go ahead with Luke Fox as Batman instead of Jace because that's actual legacy (it would've made as much sense as Jean-Paul Valley becoming Batman but at least these characters are pre-established). You can't manufacture it. Characters grow and evolve past their initial conceptions all the time, so starting out these characters to be the new permanent "Batman" and "Wonder Woman" before they're even "Jace" and "Yara" will only naturally lead to them not actually being the new permanent "Batman" or "Wonder Woman" even though that is what they're supposedly designed for.

And here's the thing: I don't want any characters, either new or established, replacing other more prominent characters. I don't want Dick to be Batman, but if for whatever reason Batman needs to be not Bruce, the first choice should be Dick, not Jace, because why would a new character supersede an older one? To be frank, Jace and Yara should've gotten the Naomi treatment instead of being forced to be characters that already exist.

[Superfly Frankenstein]

For a long time, I've wanted to see a storyline that leads to the separation of "New Earth" back into five respective Earths. It would include a rebirth for these worlds and their continuities, and every family of books would have an "Earth-" designation on the cover. DC's publishing output could then be set across a Multiverse of books.

Earth-0: "Ultimate DC" or an Earth where the next generation has succeeded the original heroes and villains of the DCU.

Earth-1: Essentially the Rebirth continuity after Doomsday Clock. The Kents are back, Alfred's alive, Jor-El's erased, Jon remains Superboy, and so on. This would be the Earth most like the DC continuity of the last thirty or so years. Action Comics and Detective would be set here, as well as Wally West: The Flash and Barry Allen: The Flash. Barry would actually live with Iris in the future again but would travel the Multiverse while Wally is the main Flash of the DCU again.

Earth-2: Essentially the Earth-2 we knew from pre-COIE. Books here would include Justice Society of America and The World's Finest, set in the Golden Age. The modern era of this Earth would eventually be seen in a third book.

Earth-3: Titles here include The Adventures of Alexander Luthor, focusing on his initially-solo war on evil and corruption, and The Syndicate, focusing on the Crime Syndicate.

Earth-4: The Charlton characters reside here, not seen through the Watchmen lens like Morrison did in Multiversity but instead, seen through a lighter and more comical lens like the post-COIE JLA books. Booster and Blue Beetle would have a book, along with a Peacemaker book (he'd be the one straight man in the whole universe) and a Question series.

Earth-5: This would be home to the original Captain Marvel, now returned to his original name: Captain Thunder. The Thunder Family would also feature heavily.

Earth-6: Horror is the name of the game here: Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, Sandman, Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E., you name it.

Earth-7: The heavy sci-fi universe: Adam Strange, Challengers of The Unknown, Hawkworld, etc.

These are just the core universes; others could be added as well. For some Earths, mini or maxi-series could be utilized to gauge interest. Earths based on Elseworlds would work well here, like Red Rain, Gotham By Gaslight, etc.

I know nothing even close to this is ever going to happen, but it's what I'd like to see.

This, in spades, five times over.

[Superboy-Prime]

Being designed to be the replacement for someone else isn't exactly a strong foundation for a new character to be built on especially when the character that is being replaced isn't actually replaced and still maintains their original position of prominence and there are still several other characters before the new ones that would make more sense to replace them with. Why does Jace have to be the "black Batman" and Yara the "Brazilian Wonder Woman" before they get to be "Jace Fox" and "Yara Flor?" We know why Dick or Donna or Cassie would be able to fill the roles of their predecessors, but why does Jace or Yara? It would've made more sense to go ahead with Luke Fox as Batman instead of Jace because that's actual legacy (it would've made as much sense as Jean-Paul Valley becoming Batman but at least these characters are pre-established). You can't manufacture it. Characters grow and evolve past their initial conceptions all the time, so starting out these characters to be the new permanent "Batman" and "Wonder Woman" before they're even "Jace" and "Yara" will only naturally lead to them not actually being the new permanent "Batman" or "Wonder Woman" even though that is what they're supposedly designed for.

And here's the thing: I don't want any characters, either new or established, replacing other more prominent characters. I don't want Dick to be Batman, but if for whatever reason Batman needs to be not Bruce, the first choice should be Dick, not Jace, because why would a new character supersede an older one? To be frank, Jace and Yara should've gotten the Naomi treatment instead of being forced to be characters that already exist.

Because Barry Allen and Hal Jordan haven't endured for decades. And Miles Morales hasn't been around for 10 years, even longer as Spider-Man in the same universe as Peter than without.

[garazza]

Because Barry Allen and Hal Jordan haven't endured for decades.

Really? Woof. Somebody should tell Geoff Johns.

And Miles Morales hasn't been around for 10 years, even longer as Spider-Man in the same universe as Peter than without.

Miles is the Kate Bishop to Spider-Man's Hawkeye. There wasn't another before and there hasn't been another one since. But Flash or Green Lantern? Take your pick.

[Superboy-Prime]

Miles is the Kate Bishop to Spider-Man's Hawkeye. There wasn't another before and there hasn't been another one since.

Ben Reilly, Doc Ock, and Miguel O'Hara would all dispute that. It's funny how you're saying the characters that follow the exact same route as Miles won't last, though... And that following the route of Ben Reilly would be a "signifier" that they would.

[garazza]

Ben Reilly, Doc Ock, and Miguel O'Hara would all dispute that.

All three of them are Spider-Man right now as we speak? I thought Kaine was currently the only one.

It's funny how you're saying the characters that follow the exact same route as Miles won't last, though... And that following the route of Ben Reilly would be a "signifier" that they would.

I know you think you just had me in a gotcha, but you're actually right. Miles is the exception that proves the rule. Generally, characters should follow the path of Ben Reilly if they have any chance at longevity. Ben started out as Spider-Man but moved onto the Scarlet Spider as Peter was never actually being replaced and Ben was too popular to not keep around and needed to find something else to do other than "be Spider-Man" because, you know, Peter was still a thing.

Miles on the other hand is a very unique character in terms of legacy and in comparison to Ben. Peter's permanent absence in the Ultimate universe is what allowed Miles to be his own character and the actual "Spider-Man" and not just be the "other Spider-Man" if Peter's absence was only temporary. Miles would've never worked or lasted long as Spider-Man if he was created in the main universe before he needed to evolve and move onto being his own Scarlet Spider. Miles should not be the "other one" but Ben Reilly is very much the "other one," and that is actually to his benefit and not to his detriment like it is for Miles. Ben needed to be something else other than Spider-Man as long as Peter was still around if he wanted any chance to stick around. Miles upon his creation had no such need.

Shockingly, Marvel has managed to make two Spider-Men in the same universe work even though it shouldn't by having both characters have their own solo books that are so independent and unreliant on the other that they're functionally operating in two different universes like it was when there was two universes. Jace and Yara are what would happen if Miles was created in the main Marvel universe. It's why I think DC should've kept the Future State universe as their functional Ultimate universe so Jace, Yara, and aged up Jon could be that universe's Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman instead of as the "other" Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman like they are now.

[Superboy-Prime]

I know you think you just had me in a gotcha, but you're actually right. Miles is the exception that proves the rule. Generally, characters should follow the path of Ben Reilly if they have any chance at longevity. Ben started out as Spider-Man but moved onto the Scarlet Spider as Peter was never actually being replaced and Ben was too popular to not keep around and needed to find something else to do other than "be Spider-Man" because, you know, Peter was still a thing.

Miles on the other hand is a very unique character in terms of legacy and in comparison to Ben. Peter's permanent absence in the Ultimate universe is what allowed Miles to be his own character and the actual "Spider-Man" and not just be the "other Spider-Man" if Peter's absence was only temporary. Miles would've never worked or lasted long as Spider-Man if he was created in the main universe before he needed to evolve and move onto being his own Scarlet Spider. Miles should not be the "other one" but Ben Reilly is very much the "other one," and that is actually to his benefit and not to his detriment like it is for Miles. Ben needed to be something else other than Spider-Man as long as Peter was still around if he wanted any chance to stick around. Miles upon his creation had no such need.

Ben didn't start as Spider-Man. He did what you suggested, started as Scarlet Spider, then went on to Spider-Man, and inevitably regressed to Scarlet Spider. But I'm not sure why this is a debate, Dark Crisis is only going to prove the characters' longevity in their new roles. That, or kill off Dick Grayson.

Maybe you can get an Elseworlds Kid Jon mini or something after it finishes, who knows?

[Restingvoice]

I haven't kept up with any of Snyder's Dark stuff...what was done with the pre-COIE Multiverse? I've always assumed it's still there somehow based on Doomsday Clock and to a lesser degree, Convergence. Has it been established that the pre-COIE Multiverse is still there and is separate from the current DC continuity?

In Doomsday Clock and onward, every time a reboot/Crisis happens, the multiverse evolve into a new one. The characters are reincarnated with new history and stuffs like that

To preserve past stories, copies of the old continuities are created, and preserved in the Metaverse. Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 1985, Earth 52, etc.

The actual original is gone, evolved into the current continuity.

How long do we think the Justice League will stay dead? I've wondered if they'll get resurrected by the end of Dark Crisis.

One of the premise, or solicitation, I forget which, says that one of the team is looking for the missing Justice League, so I'm actually expecting them to be back immediately

[Bored at 3:00AM]

My wishes: JSA and Legion (not the Bendis boot) returns. And the multiverse becomes officially infinite again and not limited to 52 universes.

The DC Multiverse hasn't been limited to 52 universes since Dark Knights: Metal. The current Multiverse is just one part of an Omniverse, so you've got an infinite Multiverse that's part of an even infinite-er Omniverse.

[Minerboh]

I know it is wishful thinking but here goes...
I want a relaunch or reboot that's very carefully planned and execute it better than the New 52. Kind of like the Rebirth era.
Titles and material the readers can relate and enjoy with a straight and easily followed continuity.
Give the readers exactly what they want and not what they think they want.

[Minerboh]

Ben Reilly, Doc Ock, and Miguel O'Hara would all dispute that. It's funny how you're saying the characters that follow the exact same route as Miles won't last, though... And that following the route of Ben Reilly would be a "signifier" that they would.

Dock Ock was never a Spider-Man and in the eyes of many readers he will never be a Spider-Man.
He was, he is and he will always be Dr Octopus.

[exile001]

Doc Ock was never a Spider-Man and in the eyes of many readers he will never be a Spider-Man.
He was, he is and he will always be Dr Octopus.

He was the Superior Spider-man for years (on and off). Like it or not, the absolute on paper fact is that he was a Spider-man. And a damned enjoyable one.

[exile001]

My hope? This is it. The final one. Ever.

The last Crisis/"Anti"-Crisis/Reboot/Soft-Reboot/Realignment. DC needs to stop. They need to make a solid line-wide continuity decision and stick with it. Forever.

The concept of DC as connected universe (or universes) is currently an unreadable mess because of them. I don't even care much about continuity but I'd like to know if the JSA exist. Or Young Justice. Or the New Teen Titans era.

No more last second building to huge stakes-less unending reality-warping continuity changing circle jerk events. Just stick to telling good stories with a beginning, middle and end.

I wouldn't mind so much if they were actually good stories but usually the first and last issue are solid but the rest reads like each page is a bullet point info dump/character alignment because there are too many ideas and characters to balance. This isn't new, it is very much an issue as far back as Zero Hour at least. It's like they're aping Crisis on Infinite Earths without Wolfman's incredible talent to made it work as a cohesive story. Morrison understood this and Final Crisis is a great read (outside of some personal gripes and the original publishing delays).

Also, at what point did "what continuity is going to change?" become the selling point of a story. The story should be the be-all-and-end-all.

I won't be reading it, as DC have killed my interest in anything other than solo books.

Christ, that was negative. Here's something positive - I am really liking DC's Black Label stuff and what I'm reading in the Bat-line is pretty solid.

[Superboy-Prime]

My hope? This is it. The final one. Ever.

The last Crisis/"Anti"-Crisis/Reboot/Soft-Reboot/Realignment. DC needs to stop. They need to make a solid line-wide continuity decision and stick with it. Forever.

The concept of DC as connected universe (or universes) is currently an unreadable mess because of them. I don't even care much about continuity but I'd like to know if the JSA exist. Or Young Justice. Or the New Teen Titans era.

No more last second building to huge stakes-less unending reality-warping continuity changing circle jerk events. Just stick to telling good stories with a beginning, middle and end.

I wouldn't mind so much if they were actually good stories but usually the first and last issue are solid but the rest reads like each page is a bullet point info dump/character alignment because there are too many ideas and characters to balance. This isn't new, it is very much an issue as far back as Zero Hour at least. It's like they're aping Crisis on Infinite Earths without Wolfman's incredible talent to made it work as a cohesive story. Morrison understood this and Final Crisis is a great read (outside of some personal gripes and the original publishing delays).

Also, at what point did "what continuity is going to change?" become the selling point of a story. The story should be the be-all-and-end-all.

I won't be reading it, as DC have killed my interest in anything other than solo books.

Christ, that was negative. Here's something positive - I am really liking DC's Black Label stuff and what I'm reading in the Bat-line is pretty solid.

It's already confirmedermed to have nothing to do with changing continuity. I made up a new word. Confirmedermed.