You fears/wishes/predictions for the post-Dark Crisis DCU

[Minerboh]

He was the Superior Spider-man for years (on and off). Like it or not, the absolute on paper fact is that he was a Spider-man. And a damned enjoyable one.

I have red the storyline. 1) He was only for one month and six months. Then he got back being Dr Octopus in a cloned body and then he became the Superior Octopus for a while before trying to be ''Spider-Man'' once more. And his second stand was even more brief than the first one.
2) At best, he was Spider-Man by name only. The ethics, morals and motivations that made Peter into Spider-Man are all missing. Even Dock Ock himself admitted that.

[scary harpy]

For a long time, I've wanted to see a storyline that leads to the separation of "New Earth" back into five respective Earths. It would include a rebirth for these worlds and their continuities, and every family of books would have an "Earth-" designation on the cover. DC's publishing output could then be set across a Multiverse of books.

Earth-0: "Ultimate DC" or an Earth where the next generation has succeeded the original heroes and villains of the DCU.

Earth-1: Essentially the Rebirth continuity after Doomsday Clock. The Kents are back, Alfred's alive, Jor-El's erased, Jon remains Superboy, and so on. This would be the Earth most like the DC continuity of the last thirty or so years. Action Comics and Detective would be set here, as well as Wally West: The Flash and Barry Allen: The Flash. Barry would actually live with Iris in the future again but would travel the Multiverse while Wally is the main Flash of the DCU again.

Earth-2: Essentially the Earth-2 we knew from pre-COIE. Books here would include Justice Society of America and The World's Finest, set in the Golden Age. The modern era of this Earth would eventually be seen in a third book.

Earth-3: Titles here include The Adventures of Alexander Luthor, focusing on his initially-solo war on evil and corruption, and The Syndicate, focusing on the Crime Syndicate.

Earth-4: The Charlton characters reside here, not seen through the Watchmen lens like Morrison did in Multiversity but instead, seen through a lighter and more comical lens like the post-COIE JLA books. Booster and Blue Beetle would have a book, along with a Peacemaker book (he'd be the one straight man in the whole universe) and a Question series.

Earth-5: This would be home to the original Captain Marvel, now returned to his original name: Captain Thunder. The Thunder Family would also feature heavily.

Earth-6: Horror is the name of the game here: Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, Sandman, Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E., you name it.

Earth-7: The heavy sci-fi universe: Adam Strange, Challengers of The Unknown, Hawkworld, etc.

These are just the core universes; others could be added as well. For some Earths, mini or maxi-series could be utilized to gauge interest. Earths based on Elseworlds would work well here, like Red Rain, Gotham By Gaslight, etc.

I know nothing even close to this is ever going to happen, but it's what I'd like to see.

This, in spades, five times over.

I third this idea.

The New-cluttered-Earth is an overcrowded hot mess.

Splitting it into 5 or 10 worlds wouldn't be a bad idea...DC sure has tried everything else.

I'd welcome back a few Earth 2s and a few Earth 3s; those are the worlds that I really care about.

Although, I don't think Charlton or Fawcett has enough heroes for their own earth. Sorry.

[garazza]

Ben didn't start as Spider-Man. He did what you suggested, started as Scarlet Spider, then went on to Spider-Man, and inevitably regressed to Scarlet Spider. But I'm not sure why this is a debate, Dark Crisis is only going to prove the characters' longevity in their new roles. That, or kill off Dick Grayson.

I know nothing about Spider-Man and I'm not that big a fan of his, all I know is that clones are annoying and confusing.

Maybe you can get an Elseworlds Kid Jon mini or something after it finishes, who knows?

Allegedly, Paul Kaminski says we're getting more stories with kid Jon but I'll believe it when I see it. They've had three and a half years to capitalize on the popularity of the real Jon and all they've done is two mini-series published a few years apart.

[Kirk Brent]

I third this idea.

The New-cluttered-Earth is an overcrowded hot mess.

Splitting it into 5 or 10 worlds wouldn't be a bad idea...DC sure has tried everything else.

I'd welcome back a few Earth 2s and a few Earth 3s; those are the worlds that I really care about.

Although, I don't think Charlton or Fawcett has enough heroes for their own earth. Sorry.

Thanks for the support! To clarify what I didn't make clear in my proposal: the number of books set on any given Earth would depend on the strength/history of that Earth's characters/books. For example, Earth-Zero, an "Ultimate DC" or "Future State" kind of Earth, would have titles for Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, and possibly Aquaman and Martian Manhunter. There would be no JL here if it's a reboot Earth. Meanwhile, Earth-One would have Action Comics, Detective Comics, JLA, Wally West: Flash, Barry Allen: Flash, Titans, Superman Family, Batman Family, and maybe a GL Corps title. Earth-Two would have only two titles: JSA and a World's Finest. Earth-Three would have two books, and some Earths, like Earth-4 and 5, would only have one title. Each Earth could potentially get more titles that would spin out of successful books.

[Kirk Brent]

In Doomsday Clock and onward, every time a reboot/Crisis happens, the multiverse evolve into a new one. The characters are reincarnated with new history and stuffs like that

To preserve past stories, copies of the old continuities are created, and preserved in the Metaverse. Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 1985, Earth 52, etc.

The actual original is gone, evolved into the current continuity.



One of the premise, or solicitation, I forget which, says that one of the team is looking for the missing Justice League, so I'm actually expecting them to be back immediately

Okay, I'm officially confused. I read Doomsday Clock and loved the "Metaverse" concept but was under the impression that Dark Nights of The Metal or whatever Snyder's various series were called undid that so that there's just an Omniverse now. Speaking of which, I read an article today (maybe here on CBR) that said all of the Multiverses that ever existed are still there: pre-COIE, post-IC, post-Flashpoint, and post-Snyderpocalypse. I've always loved the richness of the DC Multiverse but it seems today's writers and editorial don't know how it works.

[Crazy Diamond]

Scorching take #1 - that one /co/ theory about Emerald Twilight and Parallax finally becomes a story
Scorching take #2 - what people though was gonna happen to Marvel when they got bought out by Disney is what is going to happen to DC

[Restingvoice]

Okay, I'm officially confused. I read Doomsday Clock and loved the "Metaverse" concept but was under the impression that Dark Nights of The Metal or whatever Snyder's various series were called undid that so that there's just an Omniverse now. Speaking of which, I read an article today (maybe here on CBR) that said all of the Multiverses that ever existed are still there: pre-COIE, post-IC, post-Flashpoint, and post-Snyderpocalypse. I've always loved the richness of the DC Multiverse but it seems today's writers and editorial don't know how it works.

Oh. Right. I was going to mention the old multiverse debris but I didn't want to make it too long.

I kept writing and erasing and trying to simplify it as much as I could since we're talking about three writers piling lore and reveals on top of the other.

So, first, like you, I thought that they erase the concept of Metaverse, but when I looked into it, Snyder and Johns don't really contradict each other.

Johns said that every time a Crisis happened and the story move forward, the Metaverse preserve past stories in the Metaverse. Both moves on, alive. The Metaverse with old stories, the main Multiverse with the current stories.

Then Snyder said that the current characters are the same ones from the past continuity, they've been rebooted with new story every time, but they're all part of one timeline dating back to real life 1938.

So at first, I thought this is a new lore... but what Snyder said matches what King told in The Button. When Barry and Bruce went back in time and they saw their Silver Age version, they realized that they're not parallel version, but "they're us", and this is while Doomsday Clock was still in writing.

So nothing's changed. Both telling are supposed to be true. The current characters ARE the same as the past versions, reincarnated over and over, and there ARE archived old stories in the Metaverse.

So now we know what happened to the characters, and that they have archived copies, but what happened to the original earths itself? If there's a copy in the Metaverse, there should be an original.

At first I thought they reincarnated too, like the characters. Infinite Earths merged into New Earth, New Earth split into New 52 Multiverse, I thought it worked that way.

Now, in the recent Williamson's story it's revealed that the old multiverse (now named Multiverse-2) are physically there, but abandoned and in ruins. So only the characters moved on to the current Multiverse.

So that's why the Metaverse isn't gone for me: There's the physical original in ruins, there's the physical characters reincarnated and migrated to the current Multiverse, and there's the archived copies of both characters and Multiverse in the Metaverse.

Also, just found it, there's this Batman's notes from Flashpoint Beyond #0 by Johns for next April


The characters talking to Batman are those clowns from Doomsday Clock. Metaverse, Multiverse, and Dark Multiverse all exist in Omniverse.

[witchboy]

In Doomsday Clock and onward, every time a reboot/Crisis happens, the multiverse evolve into a new one. The characters are reincarnated with new history and stuffs like that

To preserve past stories, copies of the old continuities are created, and preserved in the Metaverse. Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 1985, Earth 52, etc.

The actual original is gone, evolved into the current continuity.



One of the premise, or solicitation, I forget which, says that one of the team is looking for the missing Justice League, so I'm actually expecting them to be back immediately

Thanks.
We knew they were never going to stay dead for long, so hopefully the story bringing them back is at least good. Doing it in a Crisis just makes sense.

[Kirk Brent]

Oh. Right. I was going to mention the old multiverse debris but I didn't want to make it too long.

I kept writing and erasing and trying to simplify it as much as I could since we're talking about three writers piling lore and reveals on top of the other.

So, first, like you, I thought that they erase the concept of Metaverse, but when I looked into it, Snyder and Johns don't really contradict each other.

Johns said that every time a Crisis happened and the story move forward, the Metaverse preserve past stories in the Metaverse. Both moves on, alive. The Metaverse with old stories, the main Multiverse with the current stories.

Then Snyder said that the current characters are the same ones from the past continuity, they've been rebooted with new story every time, but they're all part of one timeline dating back to real life 1938.

So at first, I thought this is a new lore... but what Snyder said matches what King told in The Button. When Barry and Bruce went back in time and they saw their Silver Age version, they realized that they're not parallel version, but "they're us", and this is while Doomsday Clock was still in writing.

So nothing's changed. Both telling are supposed to be true. The current characters ARE the same as the past versions, reincarnated over and over, and there ARE archived old stories in the Metaverse.

So now we know what happened to the characters, and that they have archived copies, but what happened to the original earths itself? If there's a copy in the Metaverse, there should be an original.

At first I thought they reincarnated too, like the characters. Infinite Earths merged into New Earth, New Earth split into New 52 Multiverse, I thought it worked that way.

Now, in the recent Williamson's story it's revealed that the old multiverse (now named Multiverse-2) are physically there, but abandoned and in ruins. So only the characters moved on to the current Multiverse.

So that's why the Metaverse isn't gone for me: There's the physical original in ruins, there's the physical characters reincarnated and migrated to the current Multiverse, and there's the archived copies of both characters and Multiverse in the Metaverse.

Also, just found it, there's this Batman's notes from Flashpoint Beyond #0 by Johns for next April


The characters talking to Batman are those clowns from Doomsday Clock. Metaverse, Multiverse, and Dark Multiverse all exist in Omniverse.

Thank you so much for this! So these "past copies" are still moving forward in time, i.e., having new adventures? That was heavily suggested in Doomsday Clock #12 regarding Earth-1985 and Earth-52.

Personally, I don't like the idea that the characters are the same from the past Multiverse and that there are "ruins" of that Multiverse. So this means that the infinite versions of characters from pre-COIE "relocated" to the new Multiverse and were then "reincarnated" over and over again? This seems needlessly complex, just like the idea that there are physical "ruins" of the pre-COIE Multiverse.


Grant Morrison once described the "Megaverse" as he called it as bubbles in a champagne glass: each "local" Multiverse is a bubble in the medium of existence itself. I took that to heavily suggest that the pre-COIE Multiverse Earths were still out there and continued on. This meant that post-COIE "New Earth" was its own unique universe, timeline, and eventually smaller Multiverse than the pre-COIE Multiverse. Morrison was also behind the idea of Brainiac bottling timelines before they were erased in Convergence. It's too bad he didn't write Convergence and that it was treated as a throwaway story that no one acknowledges.

Both Morrison and Johns have provided DC with the ideal solution to their continuity issues and yet WB/DC upper management tossed them out to go with Snyder's ill-conceived approach. The Metaverse concept is brilliant and allows the company to re-launch a new continuity every few decades while preserving past stories and even returning to them if there's a demand.

[Kirk Brent]

Scorching take #1 - that one /co/ theory about Emerald Twilight and Parallax finally becomes a story
Scorching take #2 - what people though was gonna happen to Marvel when they got bought out by Disney is what is going to happen to DC

Okay, I've been out of the loop for a while...there's a new theory about Emerald Twilight and Parallax?! Please fill me in!

[Restingvoice]

Thank you so much for this! So these "past copies" are still moving forward in time, i.e., having new adventures? That was heavily suggested in Doomsday Clock #12 regarding Earth-1985 and Earth-52.

Personally, I don't like the idea that the characters are the same from the past Multiverse and that there are "ruins" of that Multiverse. So this means that the infinite versions of characters from pre-COIE "relocated" to the new Multiverse and were then "reincarnated" over and over again? This seems needlessly complex, just like the idea that there are physical "ruins" of the pre-COIE Multiverse.


Grant Morrison once described the "Megaverse" as he called it as bubbles in a champagne glass: each "local" Multiverse is a bubble in the medium of existence itself. I took that to heavily suggest that the pre-COIE Multiverse Earths were still out there and continued on. This meant that post-COIE "New Earth" was its own unique universe, timeline, and eventually smaller Multiverse than the pre-COIE Multiverse. Morrison was also behind the idea of Brainiac bottling timelines before they were erased in Convergence. It's too bad he didn't write Convergence and that it was treated as a throwaway story that no one acknowledges.

Both Morrison and Johns have provided DC with the ideal solution to their continuity issues and yet WB/DC upper management tossed them out to go with Snyder's ill-conceived approach. The Metaverse concept is brilliant and allows the company to re-launch a new continuity every few decades while preserving past stories and even returning to them if there's a demand.

They should be since it's Johns' method to make past stories matter, they're kinda like a representation of DC's TPB and digital archive

Yes, it was Snyder's method to make "everything matters" because the current characters are the same characters are the past, they're not shunted off to a different earth or whatever, and they, at least during Death Metal, remember that they have a past lives. So if a reader goes back to read past books, even if the characterization and story are different, it's still relevant because now they're part of one long history.

Oh I didn't know about Megaverse. That makes sense now, because I didn't understand how Convergence worked. Like how can Brainiac bottled them because at that time I thought the old Multiverse was transformed into New 52 with Flashpoint.

[Sandy Hausler]

If I had my druthers, at the end of this reboot (soft or hard), Zatanna will have met John Constantine only once and couldn't stand him. She avoids him at all costs.

[Stanlos]

If I had my druthers, at the end of this reboot (soft or hard), Zatanna will have met John Constantine only once and couldn't stand him. She avoids him at all costs.

And she would be competent again! And not a junior magic user

[Sutekh]

If I had my druthers, at the end of this reboot (soft or hard), Zatanna will have met John Constantine only once and couldn't stand him. She avoids him at all costs.

After he organized the little hootnanny that resulted in the death of her father, I could see Zee *loathing* the man.

[KurtW95]

The best idea the Batbooks could run with is wiping the mistakes and retcons from the past twenty years.