Final thoughts on X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine now that is it done?

[Triniking1234]

Okay if we are going to blame hickman, and im honestly one of those people who could care less about moira one way or the other and have no attached fondness to her, what exactly did she do in ANY of her lives despite the one where she was going to make a cure for herself to hurt mutants ( and even then that hurt is theoretical)? Even in Inferno, the final issues penned by Hickman Moira said she believed mutants never being mutants was best for them but she never showed one hint of intention to hurt them so i really don't get how Hickman is being thrown under the bus to make Percy choices work. Even if it was outlined it was her plan he chose the process.

And at what point does she go from the extreme of killing all the trasks in her plan because they wiped out her life of living with mutants and their peace as shown in the images of her lives to flipping the script in the middle of the script to wanting to now kill all mutants? And the biggest of them all, the one that i just can't wank, if this was always her intent why did she spend so many lives, and so many different ways living among them and trying to find ways to save them. 9 lives. 9 lives of sleeping with them, eating with them, all because she wanted to destroy them. But then when she wanted to destroy the trasks she just did it. Like come on

Feels like a natural progression of Hickman's Moira since she acts purely on reaction.

- She doesn't like her reincarnation power so she invents a cure.
- She can't use the cure so she sides with the mutants
- The mutants gets wiped out by the machines so she kills the Trasks cuz they invent the mutant killing robots first
- Humans will always show up so she ditches Xavier for Magneto
- Magneto gets his ass so she goes to Apocalypse
- Apocalypse gets his ass kicked so she just info dumps on Charles and Magento so they can play the long game
- She gets betrayed by the mutants so she sides with the humans again.

[jwatson]

Feels like a natural progression of Hickman's Moira since she acts purely on reaction.

- She doesn't like her reincarnation power so she invents a cure.
- She can't use the cure so she sides with the mutants
- The mutants gets wiped out by the machines so she kills the Trasks cuz they invent the mutant killing robots first
- Humans will always show up so she ditches Xavier for Magneto
- Magneto gets his ass so she goes to Apocalypse
- Apocalypse gets his ass kicked so she just info dumps on Charles and Magento so they can play the long game
- She gets betrayed by the mutants so she sides with the humans again.

Even we give all that.The last one, she was saved by a mutant. Moira was left in a place where Doug not only saved her life but replaced her arm. All mutants aren't responsible for Mystique.

Then even if we add that based on your own list she went through all that just to turn on mutants. I mean i could even understand if one said her ultimate plan to save mutants was to become human so she could get uploaded into the phalanx and essentially destory hummanity years before they were to ascend basically destroying the baseline branch but i don't think even reed richards can make the reach necessary to connect some of it.

Just like the three lives magneto, xavier, apoc, all were still with the same goal of protecting mutants in the end. thinking about it i honestly can't say moira or her resolves have ever been shown to be fickle or reactive until they were.

correction: She was reactive after what she considered "the golden years" Meaning she found some point of happiness that must have matched or exceeded her first life and after losing that life she destroyed the trasks out of sheer pain and for revenge. Which mirrors her reaction to first finding out she was a mutant after coming back and finding out her "happy" life didn't end, she researched it and tried to destroy it but was stopped by destiny. That was before what she considered her golden ages.

[cranger]

Even we give all that.The last one, she was saved by a mutant. Moira was left in a place where Doug not only saved her life but replaced her arm. All mutants aren't responsible for Mystique.

Then even if we add that based on your own list she went through all that just to turn on mutants. I mean i could even understand if one said her ultimate plan to save mutants was to become human so she could get uploaded into the phalanx and essentially destory hummanity years before they were to ascend basically destroying the baseline branch but i don't think even reed richards can make the reach necessary to connect some of it.

Just like the three lives magneto, xavier, apoc, all were still with the same goal of protecting mutants in the end. thinking about it i honestly can't say moira or her resolves have ever been shown to be fickle or reactive until they were.

And all humans are not responsible for things, all Trasks are not responsible for things, etc.

You might be putting too much faith in her identifying as a mutant. She lived an entire life as a human. It was the only peaceful life.

[Exodus]

Even we give all that.The last one, she was saved by a mutant. Moira was left in a place where Doug not only saved her life but replaced her arm. All mutants aren't responsible for Mystique.

Then even if we add that based on your own list she went through all that just to turn on mutants. I mean i could even understand if one said her ultimate plan to save mutants was to become human so she could get uploaded into the phalanx and essentially destory hummanity years before they were to ascend basically destroying the baseline branch but i don't think even reed richards can make the reach necessary to connect some of it.

Just like the three lives magneto, xavier, apoc, all were still with the same goal of protecting mutants in the end. thinking about it i honestly can't say moira or her resolves have ever been shown to be fickle or reactive until they were.

very much agree with you. I think we have to accept that already after 2 years the new Moira was just retconned into something else. Moira is the new Corn. Quite similar like the situation with Magneto being revealed as Xorn under Morrison and a comicbook issue afterwards a studio hack writer already changed this plot point again because Marvel simply demanded it.

I think nothing happened in Lives of Wolverine has a lot to do with what has been established with the character Moira 2 years before under Hickman. It is just what it is. We shouldn't try to make sense out of it.

[juan678]

https://twitter.com/Benjamin_Percy/s...28949975220226

[Saithor]

very much agree with you. I think we have to accept that already after 2 years the new Moira was just retconned into something else. Moira is the new Corn. Quite similar like the situation with Magneto being revealed as Xorn under Morrison and a comicbook issue afterwards a studio hack writer already changed this plot point again because Marvel simply demanded it.

I think nothing happened in Lives of Wolverine has a lot to do with what has been established with the character Moira 2 years before under Hickman. It is just what it is. We shouldn't try to make sense out of it.

I wouldn't go as far as calling Percy a studio hack writer, while I might not like most of his work I don't think he just writes whatever editorial tells him, he clearly has some artistic vision even if it is all Wolverine based.

And I doubt it really fits the Xorn situation since they aren't resetting Moira and they also clearly intend to go even further with this new Moira

[jwatson]

https://twitter.com/Benjamin_Percy/s...28949975220226

so by moira's own memories. even in this. one death was natual. one was a man made product. 4 were at the hands of machines that humans made to destory a species. 3 of them were by mutants and two of those were of her own choice So why she mad at all mutants again?

[Saithor]

so by moira's own memories. even in this. one death was natual. one was a man made product. 4 were at the hands of machines that humans made to destory a species. 3 of them were by mutants and two of those were of her own choice So why she mad at all mutants again?

She saw Wolverine on an adamantium surfboard and got upset when she realized the pacing of her favorite comic, X-force, was going even more downhill. This was all a plan to get Ben Percy back onto the plot of the book.

Also..uh.......Destiny, I guess?

[Rift]

Weird how Hellion wasn't involved. That brought the event down for me.

Aside from that, it was aggressively mediocre. Not a fan of Wolverine oversaturation, but I wanted to give it a shot. I was hoping that it'd be good enough to justify putting other books on hold, or bad enough to dunk on in threads. It wasn't either, at most it was just messy and awkward at times. Most of the time, it was just there. And Marvel did end up releasing a few X-books here and there, so my attention fell on those.

I did like some parts of it though. The first Moira POV was neat. The Banshee skinsuit was hilarious. Moira had some cool designs. I liked when Wolverine was really protective of his kids. Forge was there. Aaaaand the art was pretty good.

so by moira's own memories. even in this. one death was natual. one was a man made product. 4 were at the hands of machines that humans made to destory a species. 3 of them were by mutants and two of those were of her own choice So why she mad at all mutants again?

If Moira is a mutant, she died by her own choice. That makes 5 deaths by mutants. Therefore, she has more reasons to hate mutants than man or machine.

[Kurolegacy]

It kinda amazes me how a single story can get me interested in where they’re going with a character (Moira) only to kill it completely when they nuke their character to Hell and just make them another mustache twirling villain. Krakoa’s done a number on the X-Men’s rogues gallery when they keep turning old allies into villains.

[Marvelfan1992]

Who can actually read this and take it seriously? You'd think Wolverine was getting rimmed enough with his adjoining room at the Summer House.

yeah percy's sole goal in life is to wank wolverine. he already tweeted before that writing wolverine is lowkey like writing his (percy's) autobiography. he's trying to live out his own unfulfilled fantasies through logan LMAO.

[Saithor]

It kinda amazes me how a single story can get me interested in where they’re going with a character (Moira) only to kill it completely when they nuke their character to Hell and just make them another mustache twirling villain. Krakoa’s done a number on the X-Men’s rogues gallery when they keep turning old allies into villains.

Tbf they removed a lot of the mutant villains.

[Writerblog]

It kinda amazes me how a single story can get me interested in where they’re going with a character (Moira) only to kill it completely when they nuke their character to Hell and just make them another mustache twirling villain. Krakoa’s done a number on the X-Men’s rogues gallery when they keep turning old allies into villains.

This sory is a big mess, I'm really lost any excitement I had for the future of x-books

[Saithor]

This sory is a big mess, I'm really lost any excitement I had for the future of x-books

Outside the Moira stuff It doubt these will have a major impact on the future books.

[newparisian]

I'm glad I only ever read Hickman's issues. I did try the first 1-2 issues of each series and in hindsight I'm glad I saved all that money and headache. As incomplete and sometimes frustrating as Hickman's run was, the rest of the X line (except SWORD) just screamed mediocre, to me, and has apparently not amounted to much of consequence anyway.

I'll come back in from the cold with Ewing and Gillen's books.

God bless all of you for jumping on these grenades the last couple years so I didn't have to.