Does Anyone Feel The DCAU Is A Bit Overrated?

[Agent Z]

That and making him 'too dark/morally ambiguous'. Something I never understood. Sure, he messed up with the whole Captain Marvel thing but we know Luthor was manipulating him, that he was still traumatized by Darkseid's brainwashing and his inability to convince others to have faith in him and he was also apologetic about the fight with CM afterwards.

Too dark? Really? I never got that impression as a kid or during my rewatches.

As someone who's been interacting with and observing fandom for years, "too dark and morally ambiguous" for characters like Superman can mean anything from them being outright evil to being mildly unpleasant. Unless it's by a writer fans really like, in that case, anything the character does is justified.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I think the DCAU largely deserves the status it has, but I do think fans could benefit from trying out other DC animated shows. You'd be surprised at how many people refuse to watch anything outside of the DCAU.

Fans at times exaggerate how bad he was, like, I've heard that people talked shit about Supes for fighting Captain Atom, when Captain Atom himself started the fight, Supes was defending himself, and he told Captain Atom multiple times to stop fighting.

Speaking of Captain Atom, he and Wade Eiling are much less interesting in the DCAU compared to their comic counterparts, especially the Cary Bates and Pat Broderick comic run. But the comics have also distorted those characters since that run ended, so I can't blame them that much.

[Adekis]

The first few seasons of Batman the Animated Series are fantastic. After that the cracks start showing. Superman the Animated Series has great characterization but everyone and their mother has remarked on how Kal has the proportionate strength of a spider. The New Batman Adventures starts Bruce down the long painful road of being a really annoying control freak who always has to be right about everything, which follows him well into JLU and I just hate it. Static Shock is pretty much unimpeachable for what it's going for. Batman Beyond is great for Terry but just furthers the miserable Bruce who pushes everyone away. Zeta is Zeta, nobody even knows about it.

And then there's Justice League / Unlimited, which has some great story arcs and is fantastic for exposing a bunch of minor League DC characters, but also a lot of the Big Seven suffer in it. GL is kind of flat as a character and rarely uses complex constructs, which is a nitpick, but one that matters to me. J'onn, while wise and cool, is so alienated that he also pushes everyone else away, though at least they use that one as a decent arc. While Wally gets some really great moments, he's also frequently just a little too much of a himbo? I guess he's better than in YJ at least. Bruce is more obnoxious than ever. And Superman? Nowhere to be seen in a lot of JLU, replaced with a self-righteous, arrogant, authoritarian asshole. I don't honestly think his failure to cope with "Legacy" is enough explanation for his terrible characterization in JLU.

I often think of JLU as a "Super-Game of Thrones": the arc plots are great, but you know the characters will pretty much never live up to their potential and be the best versions of themselves.

[Mistah K88]

Hmm..Yes and no...

Of the DCAU Batman the Animated Series/The New Batman Adventures is my favorite, but even I realize that for every "Heart of Ice" there's an "I've Got Batman in My Basement".

Also, I will say that some of the villains are my favorite interpretations of the characters. Joker was a mix of threatening and genuinely funny. Brainiac gave a reminder of villains who actually tempt the hero rather than try to do horrific things to try to get them to commit murder, Toyman was creepy as hell without connecting him to actual children at all. Harley was one that you could feel sorry for, but they didn't try to pretend she wasn't in on doing stuff with the Joker (or Ivy). Lex was suave, enough that you can genuinely believe he could get away with stuff, but still was basically a "thug in a suit".

[Triniking1234]

Too dark? Really? I never got that impression as a kid or during my rewatches.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Like neither of those descriptions fit TAS Supes or JL/U Supes.

'Too dark' to me describes a character like Venom, Frank Castle or Ghost Rider.
Morally ambiguous? That sounds more like Hawkgirl. "I know the Justice League doesn't kill villains... BUT"

[Rend20]

While Wally gets some really great moments, he's also frequently just a little too much of a himbo? I guess he's better than in YJ at least.

When the character finally showed up during Unlimited, I thought Wally was a pretty well-rounded character all things considered. There was still the comic relief antics and such, but he was also shown to be more mature and took the hero thing seriously compared to the Justice League portion of the series.

Either way, I do think his DCAU portrayal was a giant leap better than on Young Justice.

[phonogram12]

When the character finally showed up during Unlimited, I thought Wally was a pretty well-rounded character all things considered. There was still the comic relief antics and such, but he was also shown to be more mature and took the hero thing seriously compared to the Justice League portion of the series.

Either way, I do think his DCAU portrayal was a giant leap better than on Young Justice.

Wally's best showing in JLU was clearly the one where the Rogues showed up. Not only was his characteristic sense of humor on display, but also his maturity and compassion when dealing with the Trickster. As oppose to just breaking fingers or whatever Bats wanted to do, Wally just talked him down, reminded him that he needed to take his meds, and convinced him to turn himself into the authorities. It's this episode that I think of whenever anyone says that Wally was ridiculously immature on this show because they clearly missed this one.

[AJpyro]

Personally, I never understood exactly what people's issues with DCAU Superman were.

He tanks hits too much instead of dodging.

In JLU: I am just never gonna forgive that world of cardboard speech instantly getting worfed.

[Lukmendes]

Speaking of Captain Atom, he and Wade Eiling are much less interesting in the DCAU compared to their comic counterparts, especially the Cary Bates and Pat Broderick comic run. But the comics have also distorted those characters since that run ended, so I can't blame them that much.

Can't say I know Captain Atom that well, but in JLU he was pretty meh from what I remember, just a soldier guy who took orders from the League like a soldier, and then started to take orders from the government, not even sure if there's more to it than that.

Hmm..Yes and no...

Of the DCAU Batman the Animated Series/The New Batman Adventures is my favorite, but even I realize that for every "Heart of Ice" there's an "I've Got Batman in My Basement".

Man I should watch those two just to have an idea of the kind of extremes Batman's cartoon can have lol.

When the character finally showed up during Unlimited, I thought Wally was a pretty well-rounded character all things considered. There was still the comic relief antics and such, but he was also shown to be more mature and took the hero thing seriously compared to the Justice League portion of the series.

Either way, I do think his DCAU portrayal was a giant leap better than on Young Justice.

Perks of living long enough to be developed I guess .

[Lightning Rider]

Either way, I do think his DCAU portrayal was a giant leap better than on Young Justice.

I thought teenage Wally on Young Justice was much better represented than adult Wally on JL.

Wally's best showing in JLU was clearly the one where the Rogues showed up. Not only was his characteristic sense of humor on display, but also his maturity and compassion when dealing with the Trickster. As oppose to just breaking fingers or whatever Bats wanted to do, Wally just talked him down, reminded him that he needed to take his meds, and convinced him to turn himself into the authorities. It's this episode that I think of whenever anyone says that Wally was ridiculously immature on this show because they clearly missed this one.

That's probably his strongest episode, but even then, a viewer is left with the sense that Flash's villains are kind of a joke, like bad children who just need a lecture. Orion is there to voice a skepticism of Flash's authenticity as a hero, which does get refuted by the end, but shouldn't really be there in the first place IMO. Wally isn't Plastic Man or Booster Gold.

[TheRay]

I agree with you, but DCAU Wonder Woman was anything but terrible.

[TheCasualReader]

I thought teenage Wally on Young Justice was much better represented than adult Wally on JL.



That's probably his strongest episode, but even then, a viewer is left with the sense that Flash's villains are kind of a joke, like bad children who just need a lecture. Orion is there to voice a skepticism of Flash's authenticity as a hero, which does get refuted by the end, but shouldn't really be there in the first place IMO. Wally isn't Plastic Man or Booster Gold.

That wasn't the impression I was left with as a kid. I didn't see the villains as bad children that needed a lecture - they were just regular show villains (with their own brand of villain) except for the Trickster who was someone that was mentally ill. The Flash showing him compassion and understanding was something that really stuck out to me.

I also never felt Orion was only refuted by the end: he was continiously refuted throughout the whole episode. One example is the aforementioned scene with the Trickster where Orion wants to beat him up and make him talk and views him as just another criminal while Flash stops him and shows him and the audience why he's wrong.

I never cared about the Flash(es), but I always remembered that episode.

[phonogram12]

That's probably his strongest episode, but even then, a viewer is left with the sense that Flash's villains are kind of a joke, like bad children who just need a lecture.

I can see that argument. That said, they really did give both Batman and Orion runs for their money.

Orion is there to voice a skepticism of Flash's authenticity as a hero, which does get refuted by the end, but shouldn't really be there in the first place IMO. Wally isn't Plastic Man or Booster Gold.

Another argument I can see. But as someone who was a big fan of Mark Waid's run from the '90s, I still thought it was a spectacularly written episode.

[Rightoya]

I agree with you, but DCAU Wonder Woman was anything but terrible.

I think you truly wanted to say that DCAU Wonder Woman was terrible, and her terribly handled villains made it just even worse.

[Rend20]

I thought teenage Wally on Young Justice was much better represented than adult Wally on JL.

Well, both were placed in the comic relief role where none of the other characters took very seriously.

The difference for me is he actually grew beyond just that in the DCAU where as he never did on Young Justice. On YJ, he alternated between being the incompetent goofball and jerk for no real reason to advance other characters' stories. Besides being supportive of the other members of the team, there wasn't anything positive there other than a coupe science exposition scenes.

For me, it's like YJ was a Wolfman/Baron version of Wally where as the DCAU was more WML/Waid. Neither is necessarily wrong, but the WML/Waid era is far more popular with fans.