Will Smith Slaps Chris Rock On The Oscars Stage

[Mister Mets]

The difference doesn't mean much because we as a society still punish people for attempting to do terrible things. Trying to assault someone doesn't make what he did less terrible simply because he was prevented from doing so.

Society punishes people for attempting to do bad things but not to the same extent.

There is also a question of evidence. It's not just that Will Smith did something bad, but that it was on live TV. There were a lot of witnesses.

John Wayne was restrained off-camera, so the Academy was able to hush it up. But we don't specifically know what he would have done if he weren't restrained. We also don't want to create perverse incentives if we treat the situations equivalently (it means that once something is initiated, there's no need to benefit to cooling down.)

That said, I'm totally fine with a three year Oscars ban for John Wayne.

Yeah, John Wayne was pretty much attempting a “hate crime”.

It was pretty awful.

How would it be a hate crime?

[thwhtGuardian]

Okay, folks, tone it down.

Actors count as 'creators' for the purposes of these boards and especially this forum. You can discuss and debate their actions, but let's avoid the namecalling, please.

Also, let's not compare this to politics. That's an easy way to run a thread off the rails.

John Wayne needing to be physically restrained is a well known fact though, it's not slander or name calling. We don't know what he would have done, but the woman is on record that she greatly feared for her safety and I see no reason to disbelieve her.

[Kirby101]

John Wayne's 1971 Playboy interview. Calling him a racist homophobe is a statement of fact, not name calling.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a8788456.html

While responding to a question about professor and civil rights activist Angela Davis, Wayne said: ”I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.”

Asked what sorts of films he considers “perverted” (a term he used himself in a previous answer), Wayne mentioned Easy Rider and Midnight Cowboy, the 1969 buddy drama film starring Jon Voight and Dustin Hoffman.

“Wouldn’t you say that the wonderful love of those two men in Midnight Cowboy, a story about two f***, qualifies?” Wayne said as he elaborated on “perverted” movies.

The Western star, who appeared in movies such as Rio Grande, was asked about the portrayal of Native American people in his films, and whether he feels any empathy for them.
“I don’t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them, if that’s what you’re asking,” he said, adding: ”There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.”

[James T. Kirk]

"the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."

Uh, maybe because it was theirs, John?

[babyblob]

How would it be a hate crime? is that a real question?

If he had made it on stage and attacked a Native American woman over her political views and the speech she was giving that would be a hate crime on so many levels it is crazy to ask.

[Kirby101]

How would it be a hate crime? is that a real question?

If he had made it on stage and attacked a Native American woman over her political views and the speech she was giving that would be a hate crime on so many levels it is crazy to ask.

The definition.

A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime)[1] is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of their membership (or perceived membership) of a certain social group or racial demographic.

[Scott Taylor]

Will Smith also had a chance to be restrained or to control himself, just like Marion Robert Morrison did. Smith could have restrained himself at any point while walking up on stage, and I think he ultimately did by doing a slap instead of a punch.

Who knows what Marion might have done. But I strongly doubt he would have thrown down with a woman, he'd barely even consider hitting a man. The guy played tough guys and had that reputation on screen as an actor but was known as anything but a tough guy in real life, he was melancholy and artistically inclined.

Sort of like how Will Smith is known.

[babyblob]

The definition.

Yes that was my point. it would for sure be a hate crime.

[Alan2099]

Why you we even trying to shift the focus on what a John Wayne said 50 years ago?

How is that even relevant to Will Smith did only a few days ago? Is your argument "worse thing happened in the past so we can ignore bad things that happen now?"
Would I get off scott free for punching somebody even the face because there were racist people decades ago?

[80sbaby]

Why you we even trying to shift the focus on what a John Wayne said 50 years ago?

How is that even relevant to Will Smith did only a few days ago? Is your argument "worse thing happened in the past so we can ignore bad things that happen now?"
Would I get off scott free for punching somebody even the face because there were racist people decades ago?

No. I brought up John Wayne in response to someone saying what Will did is the worst thing to ever occur at the Oscar's. It's not about excusing Will at all.

[Alan2099]

No. I brought up John Wayne in response to someone saying what Will did is the worst thing to ever occur at the Oscar's. It's not about excusing Will at all.

So, in your example, somebody wanting to drag a person off stage but being stopped is worse than a person actually being hit.

I can't say I agree with "nothing happened" being worse than "something happened" But, if it makes you feel better, I suspect Will Smith will be able to attend the Oscars again long before John Wayne is.

[thwhtGuardian]

So, in your example, somebody wanting to drag a person off stage but being stopped is worse than a person actually being hit.

I can't say I agree with "nothing happened" being worse than "something happened" But, if it makes you feel better, I suspect Will Smith will be able to attend the Oscars again long before John Wayne is.

I'd say it's about equal, sure John Wayne didn't actually get violent but he attempted to and his attempt at violence was racially motivated which certainly bumps it up a notch.

[Alan2099]

Not actually getting violent but having racists thoughts is about equal to actually getting violent.

We're getting dangerously close to thought police territory here. "You can't think that. Just thinking it is as bad as assault." I suppose that is the kind of society we live in these days.

Chris Rock did a comedy set in the late 90s where he talked about how black people are more racists than white people because they hate black people too. Everything white people hate about black people, black people REALLY hate about black people. I'm now wondering how you would factor that into the sequence of events.

[80sbaby]

Not actually getting violent but having racists thoughts is about equal to actually getting violent.

We're getting dangerously close to thought police territory here. "You can't think that. Just thinking it is as bad as assault." I suppose that is the kind of society we live in these days.

Chris Rock did a comedy set in the late 90s where he talked about how black people are more racists than white people because they hate black people too. Everything white people hate about black people, black people REALLY hate about black people. I'm now wondering how you would factor that into the sequence of events.

It wasn't simply having those thoughts. He acted on them too. I'm not sure why you keep insisting on downplaying it?

[Kirby101]

Not actually getting violent but having racists thoughts is about equal to actually getting violent.

We're getting dangerously close to thought police territory here. "You can't think that. Just thinking it is as bad as assault." I suppose that is the kind of society we live in these days.

Chris Rock did a comedy set in the late 90s where he talked about how black people are more racists than white people because they hate black people too. Everything white people hate about black people, black people REALLY hate about black people. I'm now wondering how you would factor that into the sequence of events.

So we can't criticize someone for being a racist homophobe who attempted a violent act because it's "though police"? And he did act, if he hadn't he would not have needed to be restrained. Restraint is counter act to someone's action.

As for which is worse, Smith's is worse because it was a full violent act. If he had followed through, Wayne's would have been worse. But Wayne's intent was worse.