Status Quos that need to die.

[Iron Maiden]

When Reed sent cape-killers after Sue, Johnny and Ben, over some political disagreement over a law that technically wasn't even approved yet, I felt like it was potentially ripe with dramatic storytelling opportunities (particularly when it was soft retconned that Reed got played by the Mad Thinker into thinking that statistics supported the notion) and repercussions and stuff.

And then Didio was asked about that causing problems long-term for Reed and Sue's marriage and replied, 'Nah, he'll cook her dinner or something and she'll go back to him.' Yikes.

I try not to dislike characters based on mandated actions that don't make much sense for them, since the blame should lie with the writers, but I'm more likely to give a pass to characters I already like a little bit like Pym or Wanda or Emma for sketchy actions in-story. I guess we all have our favorites.

I do remember that Reed and Sue took a break to mend their relationship and for a while Black Panther and Storm, who were married at the time, filled in on the team for them. As you know, eventually their marriage fell apart. I wish that hadn't happened.

[Iron Maiden]

To me, everyone on the pro-registration side that didn't defect should have been in that same boat. Alas, the need to revert to status quo, or something close enough to it, once Dark Reign was over, had them all allowed to be brought back into the fold as if nothing majorly bad happened. No wonder Tom Foster (whose Uncle Bill was killed by Clor) was pissed enough to go off and join the Revengers assembled by Wonder Man during his more psychotic phase to "hold the Avengers accountable."

Not to mention the disrespectful way Bill Foster was buried...

From Civil War #4

[marhawkman]

To me, everyone on the pro-registration side that didn't defect should have been in that same boat. Alas, the need to revert to status quo, or something close enough to it, once Dark Reign was over, had them all allowed to be brought back into the fold as if nothing majorly bad happened. No wonder Tom Foster (whose Uncle Bill was killed by Clor) was pissed enough to go off and join the Revengers assembled by Wonder Man during his more psychotic phase to "hold the Avengers accountable."

yeah, Civil War was too violent to be reasonable.... and it's being fought over who is allowed to be a "good guy"????

[Ravin' Ray]

Johnny Storm reverting to a man-child after harrowing experiences (like dying repeatedly at the hands of Annihilus) should have wised him up?

YES! That needs to die.

Which doesn't mean he can't have annoying quirks here and there.

[Baron of Faltine]

Johnny Storm reverting to a man-child after harrowing experiences (like dying repeatedly at the hands of Annihilus) should have wised him up?

YES! That needs to die.

Which doesn't mean he can't have annoying quirks here and there.

Yeah writers seem tk miss that point. You do not have to revert the character mentally to 20 years ago to get back to "basic" or to give him/her notable traits. But probably is the easiest laziest way, I suppose

[marhawkman]

Johnny Storm reverting to a man-child after harrowing experiences (like dying repeatedly at the hands of Annihilus) should have wised him up?

YES! That needs to die.

Which doesn't mean he can't have annoying quirks here and there.

I mean, even in MC2 Johnny was an annoying smartass. He'd been with Lyja almost 20 years and still annoyed her.

[PCN24454]

I agree that it would be next to impossible for someone who had to physically change into a costume and don a mask in a public place to keep their identity secret. The world's population has doubled since the 1960s and I read somewhere that upwards of 96% of the people in urban areas have cell phones. If they didn't catch Spidey changing, someone would definitely catch him webbing from a common locus and track his route based on his most common appearances and frequent point of origin. And don't even get me started on the various ways that government agencies can track a routinely public individual in an urban area, if they have a mind to do so.

Keeping secret identities a secret is NOT the weirdest thing to happen in the Marvel Universe. All they have to do is say that Peter built something to hide his identity.

The floating timeline also needs to die, but I don’t see that happening.

[JudicatorPrime]

Not to mention the disrespectful way Bill Foster was buried...

From Civil War #4

Begs the question, did Bill Foster or his family ever get justice?

[kilderkin]

STATUS QUOS I CAN'T STAND

Peter Parker remains as an unmarried loser bachelor

Mutants become endangered time and time again

Johnny Storm learns to act mature but after that, he becomes immature again. Rinse and repeat.

Copy on all of this

[Huntsman Spider]

Not to mention the disrespectful way Bill Foster was buried...

From Civil War #4

Yeah, that was atrocious. What the hell, Millar?

yeah, Civil War was too violent to be reasonable.... and it's being fought over who is allowed to be a "good guy"????

Uh-huh.

Johnny Storm reverting to a man-child after harrowing experiences (like dying repeatedly at the hands of Annihilus) should have wised him up?

YES! That needs to die.

Which doesn't mean he can't have annoying quirks here and there.

Same boat his best friend Spider-Man is in, pretty much. Probably a big part of they get along so well.

Begs the question, did Bill Foster or his family ever get justice?

Alas, no. Tom Foster eventually learned to let go of his reasonable and justified anger toward the Avengers for what was done to his Uncle Bill, and because the general attitude following the end of Norman Osborn's Dark Reign was "let bygones be bygones," Reed and/or Tony didn't even get a "wrongful death" suit filed against them by his family. Would have been worth it to see them have to explain in a court of law why they felt the need to create a weaponized clone of Thor that they couldn't control and killed someone who was supposed to be an ally and friend over what amounted to a political dispute.

[Alan2099]

yeah, Civil War was too violent to be reasonable.... and it's being fought over who is allowed to be a "good guy"????

Even weirder, it's fought over licensing people to be vigilantes. I never got any explanation of how that's supposed to work.

Even more amusing is the fact that the anti-registration crowd was led by a person who's identity was legally handed over to him by the government.

Yeah, that was atrocious. What the hell, Millar?

I'm the type that has no problem pointing out when people are looking to find things to get offended by or when they're being overly sensitive and that even jumps out at me as being remarkably tone deaf. In a series called Civil War, they killed the biggest black guy they could find and burried him in chains. How did nobody catch that?

[Huntsman Spider]

Even weirder, it's fought over licensing people to be vigilantes. I never got any explanation of how that's supposed to work.

Even more amusing is the fact that the anti-registration crowd was led by a person who's identity was legally handed over to him by the government.


I'm the type that has no problem pointing out when people are looking to find things to get offended by or when they're being overly sensitive and that even jumps out at me as being remarkably tone deaf. In a series called Civil War, they killed the biggest black guy they could find and burried him in chains. How did nobody catch that?

Technically, if they were formally licensed by the government and/or S.H.I.E.L.D., they wouldn't be vigilantes anymore. That said, the leader of the anti-registration movement was known for clashing with that same government, starting with the original Secret Empire arc of the 1970s where he first gave up being Captain America for a while, then again in the 1980s when the government wanted him to go on missions he judged to be morally dubious, so it replaced him with John Walker, the self-named Super-Patriot (and U.S. Agent afterward). Hell, he got a line at the beginning of Civil War when arguing with Maria Hill, Nick Fury's then-replacement, to the effect of, "We can't let Washington start telling us who the bad guys are."

[JudicatorPrime]

Alas, no. Tom Foster eventually learned to let go of his reasonable and justified anger toward the Avengers for what was done to his Uncle Bill, and because the general attitude following the end of Norman Osborn's Dark Reign was "let bygones be bygones," Reed and/or Tony didn't even get a "wrongful death" suit filed against them by his family. Would have been worth it to see them have to explain in a court of law why they felt the need to create a weaponized clone of Thor that they couldn't control and killed someone who was supposed to be an ally and friend over what amounted to a political dispute.

It sounds to me like Reed and/or Tony are both still criminally responsible for Foster's death, not just civilly. I wonder why no one has arrested them and prosecuted them? And if not the criminal justice system, isn't this the point of Ghost Rider or Punisher being in the Marvel Universe? Seems to me like someone should have tapped those Richards and Stark on the shoulder and dog-walked them to jail, then to court. Even if this sets a precedent whereby Hank gets prosecuted for creating Ultron -- not to mention other scientists who created killer constructs -- then so be it. But I'd rather see some semblance of justice here.

[Chris0013]

I hate how every mutant is a Krakoan sycophant...let's see mutants who want nothing to do with Krakoa and why.

[Sutekh]

It sounds to me like Reed and/or Tony are both still criminally responsible for Foster's death, not just civilly.

Creating something that then kills someone, whether it be a gun or a car, doesn't always make the creator liable. Car companies can be sued for cars causing deaths through faulty construction / inadequate safety mechanisms, but the rules are different for guns, and there's no precedent for artificially created life-forms (or killer robots). The closest comparison to blaming Reed or Tony for the actions of Clor would be suing or arresting a parent because their kid killed someone.

But guilty of all sorts of other laws pertaining to stealing Thor's genetic material and creating a human (ish) clone in the first place? Yeah.

That said, I have no idea if human cloning is illegal in the Marvel Universe (I'm pretty sure it is in the real world, as is stealing genetic information).

Plus the dubious prospect that a clone of Thor, much of whose strength and power comes from supernatural / mystical sources, would have more than a smidgen of his power, as well as the ludicrous notion that Reed and Tony could just pump out a technological version of Mjolnir like they were making a potato gun. :/