Scott and Cassie Lang: Ant-Man and Stinger Appreciation 2022

[Chris0013]

Because there is nothing better than a Father/Daughter hero team up.

Most recent for either (IIRC) was Cassie showing up in the Kate Biship Hawkeye limited series...Cassie was an intern at Pym Labs....I really hope they are not going to make her a super genius. It would just seem forced and redundant considering Nadia.

[K7P5V]

Hoping 2022 will be AWESOME for Scott & Cassie

[Dreaded Porcupine]

The Ant-Man and Stinger would make a nice title for a mini. I loved Nick Spencer’s run.

[Tony Stark]

I miss both of their relationships with Tony Stark. How Cassie would call him Uncle Tony and how Scott and Tony would have one another backs.

[Digifiend]

Because there is nothing better than a Father/Daughter hero team up.

Most recent for either (IIRC) was Cassie showing up in the Kate Biship Hawkeye limited series...Cassie was an intern at Pym Labs....I really hope they are not going to make her a super genius. It would just seem forced and redundant considering Nadia.

Ironically, Nadia's probably the reason she became an intern there. Remember the issue of Unstoppable Wasp, vol 2 #7 I think, in which Nadia had a birthday party with the Young Avengers and Champions? Scott had previously teamed up with Nadia, and having the girls meet (they're the same age) was his present to Nadia, who'd helped him out on Cassie's birthday when he was stranded in space. Cassie and Nadia became fast friends. They could probably teach each other things. Cassie is a pop-culture aficionado whereas Nadia's upbringing meant she didn't even get Kamala's Megazord reference in Unstoppable Wasp vol 1 #1. Nadia of course could teach Cassie about science, and I can certainly understand Cassie wanting to learn more about her powers - which happen to be identical to Nadia's. Nadia's Genius In action Research Labs, GIRL, is actually part of Pym Labs.

And bear in mind that Nadia's MCU counterpart is Hope van Dyne - who of course, will appear alongside Scott and Cassie in the Quantumania movie. They're not the same age there - Hope instead being Scott's love interest - but it's clear they'll be working together.

[Chris0013]

I miss both of their relationships with Tony Stark. How Cassie would call him Uncle Tony and how Scott and Tony would have one another backs.

Unfortunately when they brought Scott back from the dead everyone started crapping all over him.

Ironically, Nadia's probably the reason she became an intern there. Remember the issue of Unstoppable Wasp, vol 2 #7 I think, in which Nadia had a birthday party with the Young Avengers and Champions? Scott had previously teamed up with Nadia, and having the girls meet (they're the same age) was his present to Nadia, who'd helped him out on Cassie's birthday when he was stranded in space. Cassie and Nadia became fast friends. They could probably teach each other things. Cassie is a pop-culture aficionado whereas Nadia's upbringing meant she didn't even get Kamala's Megazord reference in Unstoppable Wasp vol 1 #1. Nadia of course could teach Cassie about science, and I can certainly understand Cassie wanting to learn more about her powers - which happen to be identical to Nadia's. Nadia's Genius In action Research Labs, GIRL, is actually part of Pym Labs.

And bear in mind that Nadia's MCU counterpart is Hope van Dyne - who of course, will appear alongside Scott and Cassie in the Quantumania movie. They're not the same age there - Hope instead being Scott's love interest - but it's clear they'll be working together.

I get that. And also that Janet is running Pym Labs (among her other business interests) but What I am saying is for Cassie to not be a genius. have her be a solid B+/A- student who has to put in the work for those grades. And make her more street smart than book smart because of her ex-con dad and cop step dad.

[Sutekh]

Unfortunately when they brought Scott back from the dead everyone started crapping all over him.

A weird trend to Homer-ize various characters and make them 'loser-y' or sad sacks or disrespected by their peers. Danny Rand sometimes gets hit with it, Scott Lang has big time, and at the same time, Clint Barton was being beaten handily with the loser-stick, and now the Black Knight/Dane Whitman seems to be the latest recipient of the plummetting levels of competence and reputation.

On the one hand, I thought his Fantastic Four run where he was outwitting Doom finding new uses of Pym particles was a bit over-the-top, and bordering on fanfic, but recent outings have swung the pendulum too far in the other direction and made him seem kind a hapless screwup who has to have his fat pulled out of the fire by Cassie (or others) far too often for my taste. I'd prefer he was more of an experienced relatively competent figure, by this point in his life and career, even if his life is not exactly as put-together or 'successful' or perfect as born-billionaire Stark or 'has a zillion patents and a plot-armored marriage' Richards.

It kind of takes me out of the story when the main character kind of bumbles their way through the story, and only survives by dumb luck more than once. I want them to *earn* those victories! It's hard to care about 'heroes' who only survive their adventures through writer fiat, and basically get saved (by others, more competent, characters, or just by contrived circumstance, like faulty deathtraps) more often than they are doing the saving.

I get that. And also that Janet is running Pym Labs (among her other business interests) but What I am saying is for Cassie to not be a genius. have her be a solid B+/A- student who has to put in the work for those grades. And make her more street smart than book smart because of her ex-con dad and cop step dad.

I do agree that with Nadia and Lunella and Valeria running around, there's already a fair bit of girl-genius niche being occupied (and various others like Sun Girl waiting in the wings). I always saw Cassie as more of a common-sense 'average kid' in the intellectual sense, like her teammate Kate Bishop.

[K7P5V]

I miss both of their relationships with Tony Stark. How Cassie would call him Uncle Tony and how Scott and Tony would have one another backs.

Me too. Still remember the time Scott saved Tony

[Tony Stark]

Me too. Still remember the time Scott saved Tony

Yep. He really did save Tony's ass. Big time. I really do miss him and Cassie being in Tony's life.

[Digifiend]

A weird trend to Homer-ize various characters and make them 'loser-y' or sad sacks or disrespected by their peers.

Homer-ize? You mean turn them into Homer Simpson?

[Chris0013]

A weird trend to Homer-ize various characters and make them 'loser-y' or sad sacks or disrespected by their peers. Danny Rand sometimes gets hit with it, Scott Lang has big time, and at the same time, Clint Barton was being beaten handily with the loser-stick, and now the Black Knight/Dane Whitman seems to be the latest recipient of the plummetting levels of competence and reputation.

On the one hand, I thought his Fantastic Four run where he was outwitting Doom finding new uses of Pym particles was a bit over-the-top, and bordering on fanfic, but recent outings have swung the pendulum too far in the other direction and made him seem kind a hapless screwup who has to have his fat pulled out of the fire by Cassie (or others) far too often for my taste. I'd prefer he was more of an experienced relatively competent figure, by this point in his life and career, even if his life is not exactly as put-together or 'successful' or perfect as born-billionaire Stark or 'has a zillion patents and a plot-armored marriage' Richards.

It kind of takes me out of the story when the main character kind of bumbles their way through the story, and only survives by dumb luck more than once. I want them to *earn* those victories! It's hard to care about 'heroes' who only survive their adventures through writer fiat, and basically get saved (by others, more competent, characters, or just by contrived circumstance, like faulty deathtraps) more often than they are doing the saving.

My dream Ant-Man series is Scott in Miami helping people...kind of like the old USA Network series Burn Notice. He does have a PI license and does freelance insurance investigation for high end items like multi-million dollar super cars which can bring in decent money and pay for a house, car, etc....but when not working on those cases he helps the little guy.

As far as the FF run and punching doom...there are times it is a little over the top...but I do think it had some good moments. And I like Scott being the one to find new uses for Pym Particles as he has been using them for a while and while he is not a genius like Hank, Tony or Reed...he is not a moron. So give him those moments...have him in the room with those geniuses and throw out one of those "but what if we...?" linrd that makes the geniuses rethink and find the answer.

[Sutekh]

Homer-ize? You mean turn them into Homer Simpson?

Yeah, I did not recall until this very second that people have used a different Homer for many centuries as a descriptor, and so that's uncultured of me. Homer Simpson's tale is epically *not* a 'Homeric' tale.

[Sutekh]

My dream Ant-Man series is Scott in Miami helping people...kind of like the old USA Network series Burn Notice. He does have a PI license and does freelance insurance investigation for high end items like multi-million dollar super cars which can bring in decent money and pay for a house, car, etc....but when not working on those cases he helps the little guy.

That does sound cool. And while I do not care for him being 'the lovable loser' so much, I have enjoyed the various trying-to-reform supervillains he's been hanging around with, since that gives him a fairly unique and organic niche. (Some dude heroes only seem to end up 'reforming' hottie villainesses between the sheets, it seems, like Daredevil and Elektra or Cap and Diamondback or Spidey and Black Cat.)

As far as the FF run and punching doom...there are times it is a little over the top...but I do think it had some good moments. And I like Scott being the one to find new uses for Pym Particles as he has been using them for a while and while he is not a genius like Hank, Tony or Reed...he is not a moron. So give him those moments...have him in the room with those geniuses and throw out one of those "but what if we...?" linrd that makes the geniuses rethink and find the answer.

That'd be neat as well. As long as it happens organically. I love a smart hero, or even an underestimated 'normal' one who has a clever idea that the smart ones hadn't considered (or brings a unique perspective to a challenge, thanks to their history or experience). But there are other times when it feels like the writer has decided to change-the-perception of a character with a sledgehammer. (Pym being told by an NPC that he's the Scientist Supreme and getting into a genius-fight with Richards, in Mighty Avengers, for instance, felt very fanficc-y, and I'm a huge Pym fan.)

And it is certainly true that Pym particles have ridonkulous potential. Turn a dial this way and there's less of me. Turn it the other way and there's more of me. Can I turn it sideways and there be more of me, in a different manner, less Giant-Man and more Multiple Man? That would be an insane version, particularly if he both dialed down and sideways at the same time and turned into a thousand ant-sized Scotts! (And being able to be in multiple places at the same time totally fit with the quantum narrative of the MCU Pym particles.)

[Frontier]

I hope Scott's next major appearance treats him well and not a hapless loser or the guy nobody but his own daughter respects. And, y'know, just him being competent and not betraying everybody because his daughter got kidnapped.

(The last Ant-Man minis were better in that regard but still).

I miss Cassie as Stature. I've never been sold on her as Stinger (and I didn't like the redesign they gave her in the last Ant-Man mini).

[Chris0013]

I hope Scott's next major appearance treats him well and not a hapless loser or the guy nobody but his own daughter respects. And, y'know, just him being competent and not betraying everybody because his daughter got kidnapped.

(The last Ant-Man minis were better in that regard but still).

I miss Cassie as Stature. I've never been sold on her as Stinger (and I didn't like the redesign they gave her in the last Ant-Man mini).

I would love to see a team up with Mockingbird. They both go after some local Hydra faction independently and run into each other and there is some serious friction because of the Secret Empire thing.

The only issue I had with Cassie's redesign what that her helmet took on Loony Toons proportions when she uped the power on it.