What Went Wrong With Claremont's Return to X Men?

[Timothy Hunter]

What are the reasons for why Claremont's modern X Men comics such as X Men Forever and X-Treme X Men haven't been as well received as his initial Uncanny X Men run?

Has he gotten worse as a writer or do modern audiences reject his style of writing?

[Aeon]

Wasnt X-treme well received until Larrocca left?
I didn’t read Forever, the script and especially the art were terrible for me. I never believed that those ideas were meant for his original Uncanny run.

[seccruz]

Wasnt X-treme well received until Larrocca left?
I didn’t read Forever, the script and especially the art were terrible for me. I never believed that those ideas were meant for his original Uncanny run.

They weren't. His original plots were leaked and he didn't wanna do them bc readers would know the plots...

[seccruz]

What are the reasons for why Claremont's modern X Men comics such as X Men Forever and X-Treme X Men haven't been as well received as his initial Uncanny X Men run?

Has he gotten worse as a writer or do modern audiences reject his style of writing?

X-Treme was awesome! His return to Uncanny was a wild ride, though...

[erictang]

If you look at CC’s UXM run with artist, Silvestri, Byrne, Jim Lee, Larocca, others .. all improves the story and makes it nice visually. X-Men Forever artist is just not that top notch and XTreme art is just weakens after Larocca left.

[Grunty]

Because when he did his Revolution restart of the X-men and it's 6 month gap, he kicked out Marrow with no explanation ever. Fans never forgave him. I'm kidding. It didn't matter.

I think it's, as so often, a combination of multiple factors. Like continuity and character progression he isn't happy with, constant changes in status quos which don't allow him to play to his original strength, different editorial ethics, internal politics, inconsistent artists that prevent his writing now from feeling like his writing of old, etc.

However his quality as a writer overall seems to not have truely diminished, as he can still deliver well written stories, many above the average compared to what today's younger writers at Marvel produce (showcasing his experience), even if some of his writing style is clearly a bit dated. Though that's mostly in relation to stand alone works. He simply can't seem to follow up on the mainline X-men anymore after what so many other writers changed and added to it.

I also have to admit, that his X-men work was before my time of getting into the comics, so i don't have much "nostalgia" for it as much as i can (relative) objectively look back and see the good and bad in how he handled them and why people loved it at the time (and still do today when reading them for the first time).

Wasnt X-treme well received until Larrocca left?

I also recall that X-treme X-men did pretty well overall (i know some who checked out the comics after enjoying the first movie and then got utterly confused by Morrison but enjoyed X-treme), though as you noted the art likely played a major role, which means a switch of artist might have played in eventualy tanking it.

For many people who try out the cape comics of the big two it's often a make or break when the artist changes. People like consistency after all and even weaker storylines can be balanced out if the art is good (unlike the opposite). So when they first have to learn that artist can rotate frequently it might turn them off (which in turn is one reason for the success of japanese comics, as while quality of art can fluctuate, the artist usualy remains the same ensuring consistency).

I didn’t read Forever, the script and especially the art were terrible for me. I never believed that those ideas were meant for his original Uncanny run.

It was obvious that many ideas he inserted were newer or even counter ideas to things which developed after he left.

[Weather]

I liked his last Uncanny X-men run, with Alan Davis, Bachalo and others... It was when I started reading comics monthly, so there is that emotional value, but I think it's a fun run.

[davetvs]

I liked his last Uncanny X-men run, with Alan Davis, Bachalo and others... It was when I started reading comics monthly, so there is that emotional value, but I think it's a fun run.

I liked that run too. It wasn't as good as what Morrison or Whedon had going on but it was fun for what it was. I liked him bringing X-23 over onto the main team, and bringing Psylocke back.

[FFJamie94]

I only read his second run in Uncanny, and maybe it’s because I was very young at the time and it was one of the first Runs I read, but I do remember enjoying it alot.
Then again I’m not the biggest fan of his 80’s work anyway, I find he drowns the art in way too much dialogue instead of letting the page breath.

[ChronoRogue]

I really respect CC for his work.

But I honestly think he needs a strong editor to ground him and tell him no, because sometimes his ideas are just... too much.


But when he's good, he's really good. End of Greys was fantastic and I really did enjoy X-Treme X-Men.

[Devaishwarya]

Yupp. He definitely needed a strong editor to just say "No, rethink this plot and while you're at it...all your go-to tropes of the 80's? You've already done those several times over. Get some new ones." He really couldn't develop and grow beyond what/how he wrote in the 80's, and no editor was telling him he had become formulaic and boring and predictable and it was time to get new material.

For new readers who "jumped on" with his return it might have seemed fun and interesting (and it was, in parts) but for me it was more eye-rolling than eye opening. And while I wouldn't say anything "went wrong" it was certainly lacking.
Even with his most recent offerings, for an established reader if you want a shot of great 80's nostalgia...it's perfect. If you're looking for new and different and engaging and just a tad extraordinary...you're out of luck.

[davetvs]

I really respect CC for his work.

But I honestly think he needs a strong editor to ground him and tell him no, because sometimes his ideas are just... too much.


But when he's good, he's really good. End of Greys was fantastic and I really did enjoy X-Treme X-Men.

This, I repressed.

[sunofdarkchild]

Of his 'return' stuff I've only read parts of his Forever runs. The problem I have with those runs is they feel more like they were inspired by modern comics more than by his own comics from the 80s and very early 90s. Characters act like they do in the 2000s or 2010s rather than like they did at the time, and that kills the appeal of a 'Claremont picks off where he left off' story. New Mutants War Children had some of that appeal since the characters feel like they did in his original New Mutants run so much more than they do in New Mutants Forever.

His in-continuity runs obviously had to start from where the X-books and the characters were at the time, but his out of continuity stuff really missed the mark and I don't understand what he was thinking with it.

[Devaishwarya]

I never read XMF.
Grummet's art was never interesting (serviceable but that's about it) and the writing from what little I saw, was like...typical Claremont but on very bad drugs; extreme and sensational (because of the drugs) but not in good way.

[Rift]

It's no coincidence that X-treme ended shortly after Hellion's debut. By then, people were used to a different type of writing and characters. They wantee (and still want) Hellion. Claremont couldn't keep up with the times and provide modern audience with what they wanted.