Mary Jane Watson = Plot Device to Peters Misery

[Hoodj]

Does anyone feel that the Amazing Spider-Man comic thrives on how random the title character stories, adventures and dynamic is soley based on how much something can make Peter suffer or emotionally destroy his chances at stability, then whats the point of putting MJ with Peter, Mary Jane is Peter's most valued supporting character so if she is used to see what Peter does next to screw up something he currently is making progress with as a relationshio aka marriage or couple, why do fans expect that everything will be non grimdark? MJ is a bigger threat to his happiness more than any villian, and Im a Peter x MJ fan. Its something i noticed. Theres renew your vows and theres the comic strip, but i still feel Peter and Mary Jane is meant to be Grimdark fuel.

[Matt Rat]

Issues like the most recent volume's ASM#60 from Spencer and even the famous Airport reunion story, show just how valued MJ views Peter and vice versa, and how each other bring themselves out of the darkness.

And of course alternate realities like MC2, RYV and the comic strip all show you that when editorial leaves well enough alone, Peter and MJ are honestly the light that keeps on living/giving. Able to withstand anything.

Spider-Man's best years weren't 'grimdark', that's a recent invention of the current regime, there was tragedy and hardship, but it was always tempered with stability and growth for every character. The bad times never lasted.

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

Or perhaps Peter is a plot device to MJ's misery.

[Matt Rat]

Or perhaps Peter is a plot device to MJ's misery.

Both are the source of one another's greatest strengths. Not failings.

C'mon guys, don't let Marvel break your faith in them.

It's only 616 that ever tries to portray them negatively (depending on the editorial) Everywhere else they're fine, in love, and stable.

I repeat:

Spider-Man's best years weren't 'grimdark', that's a recent invention of the current regime, there was tragedy and hardship, but it was always tempered with stability and growth for every character. The bad times never lasted.

[Prime]

Why would you hate one of the bets couples in comics? Peter source of misery is the fact that Marvel won't let him grow up.

[captchuck]

I think Peter's misery makes the series popular. We all identify with Pete for a reason.

[Spiderfan001]

Both are the source of one another's greatest strengths. Not failings.

C'mon guys, don't let Marvel break your faith in them.

It's only 616 that ever tries to portray them negatively (depending on the editorial) Everywhere else they're fine, in love, and stable.

Cosigned, although Raimi relationship was messy AF

I think Peter's misery makes the series popular. We all identify with Pete for a reason.

They went too far w/ that a LONG time back

[Lukmendes]

It's only when writers write 'em poorly that the relationship has more downs than ups (Like having MJ bitching at Peter for even thinking of becoming Spider-Man for any reason), but in general the relationship is more positive for both sides than negative, which stands out compared to his other love interests, who generally just made Peter more stressed.

Now, I'm not saying negatives are necessarily a bad thing, the thing that matters is how it's done, if the relationship is having problems because Peter is not comfortable with MJ doing nude scenes or kissing someone else, then it's a more understandable problem for them to have because, MJ might be okay with it because they may be requirements for her carreer, but Peter doesn't have to like it, drama happening because of two characters' different priorities can be good.

It's also worth pointing out that relationships being positive isn't necessarily a good thing too, I dropped RYV largely because I found it boring, the first issues were alright, but afterwards Peter and MJ were just boring "Husband", "Wife" characterizations without interesting chemistry, if they even got that much 'cause they could feel like they were just Annie's cheeleaders too.

So yeah, it's both about balance and how it's done, MJ is easily the healthiest relationship Peter has ever been in by far, but the relationship isn't interesting if it's just healthy, it's interesting when they get to be characters who actually get to interact with each other, feel like flawed people who are in a relationship, who may not like specific stuff about each other's lives that much, but are willing to make compromises for each other.

Also, MJ isn't that much of a source of drama when she's actually in a relationship with Peter, she can be more of a source of annoying drama when she's not with him, it's specially noticeable what Slott did with her post Superior, it had her talking **** about Peter for existing while praising Stark for some reason.

So yeah, I don't really see MJ as that much of a strong source of drama, and it's specially weird to think that about her when aunt May, JJ, and Felicia have often caused far more drama to his life than anyone else (aunt May's aren't intended at least, and they toned that down a lot over time), not counting villains of course (That includes when Felicia was a villain, even before Queenpin, she was a pain in the ass at times before she calmed down at some point in the 90's).

[Matt Rat]

I think Peter's misery makes the series popular. We all identify with Pete for a reason.

I could identity with Pete when he was married, when he was expecting a child, when he became a father (MC2/RYV), when he became a teacher etc

It's also worth pointing out that relationships being positive isn't necessarily a good thing too, I dropped RYV largely because I found it boring, the first issues were alright, but afterwards Peter and MJ were just boring "Husband", "Wife" characterizations without interesting chemistry, if they even got that much 'cause they could feel like they were just Annie's cheeleaders too..

Two strong, loving parents are supportive of their child=negative

They still had moments of drama in those early issues, like when they argue in front of Annie down in Mole Man's kingdom, as well as when they took Annie to Xavier's school and after MJ acquired the Venom symbiote. People praised RYV largely because Peter and MJ got on while the 616 versions were not at the time.

When one's biggest complaint about RYV is that it was too nice, you know there's a problem.

[NC_Yankee]

I could identity with Pete when he was married, when he was expecting a child, when he became a father (MC2/RYV), when he became a teacher etc



Two strong, loving parents are supportive of their child=negative

They still had moments of drama in those early issues, like when they argue in front of Annie down in Mole Man's kingdom, as well as when they took Annie to Xavier's school and after MJ acquired the Venom symbiote. People praised RYV largely because Peter and MJ got on while the 616 versions were not at the time.

When one's biggest complaint about RYV is that it was too nice, you know there's a problem.

RYV is my favorite Spider-Man story of the past decade. What makes zero sense is why Marvel would even let Slott write it if they are so pro OMD? I am actually ignoring breaking Peter and MJ up for exactly the same reason Peter and MJ will be living together…. It is not permanent. What would be permanent? OMD goes away, Peter marries someone else like Felicia, MJ marries someone else ( like the fireman) or MJ gets the Gwen treatment from ASM 121. Of these options I think OMD going away is the most likely and that will be reserved for ASM 1000 ( as I have said before).

[Matt Rat]

What would be permanent? OMD goes away, Peter marries someone else like Felicia, MJ marries someone else ( like the fireman)

MJ marrying someone else wouldn't be permanent. The same as Aunt May marrying into the Jamesons has been largely forgotten. That would either be annulled by the whole world remembering the pre-OMD timeline or if her new husband dies...or they can divorce, which ages MJ in experience but doesn't affect Peter.

[NC_Yankee]

MJ marrying someone else wouldn't be permanent. The same as Aunt May marrying into the Jamesons has been largely forgotten. That would either be annulled by the whole world remembering the pre-OMD timeline or if her new husband dies...or they can divorce, which ages MJ in experience but doesn't affect Peter.

That is a fair point. One more point: As much as I hate OMD, what I hate more is teasing the readers about getting rid of it then not doing it. Put up or stop the game playing. I can tell you unless it is gone by ASM 1000 I will never read or even follow Spider-Man again. That is how fed up I am.

[Frontier]

MJ marrying someone else wouldn't be permanent. The same as Aunt May marrying into the Jamesons has been largely forgotten. That would either be annulled by the whole world remembering the pre-OMD timeline or if her new husband dies...or they can divorce, which ages MJ in experience but doesn't affect Peter.

Anybody remember Pedro?

[Matt Rat]

That is a fair point. One more point: As much as I hate OMD, what I hate more is teasing the readers about getting rid of it then not doing it. Put up or stop the game playing. I can tell you unless it is gone by ASM 1000 I will never read or even follow Spider-Man again. That is how fed up I am.

I would have rather ASM 1000 to have been the one where Peter became a dad, but who knows, maybe if the marriage is restored there it'll retroactively rewrite the timeline so Peter could become one. I'm not holding my breath.

For me, Spidey's story is long over. MC2, Clone Saga 2009, comic strip, Renew Your Vows, they all had perfect endings for him and MJ both. 616 seldom has the same reverence. To me, that's just another AU Peter Parker trying to find his way.

[Lukmendes]

Two strong, loving parents are supportive of their child=negative

They still had moments of drama in those early issues, like when they argue in front of Annie down in Mole Man's kingdom, as well as when they took Annie to Xavier's school and after MJ acquired the Venom symbiote. People praised RYV largely because Peter and MJ got on while the 616 versions were not at the time.

When one's biggest complaint about RYV is that it was too nice, you know there's a problem.

I did say the first issues were alright.

And bein"too nice" is only part of the problem, I only care about Peter and MJ being together if they're being interesting while they're together, if that's not happening I'm not gonna care about 'em, and they became boring at some point in RYV (Well, RYV as a whole became boring), so I dropped the comic.

So basically, I have standards, and I don't like dropping 'em too much, it is that simple lol.

Anybody remember Pedro?

Slott haters definitely do.

I've been told here once that they got butthurt when Pedro showed up in RYV, even though he was a glorified extra at best, and didn't show up for more that a few panels in the first issue.

I would have rather ASM 1000 to have been the one where Peter became a dad, but who knows, maybe if the marriage is restored there it'll retroactively rewrite the timeline so Peter could become one. I'm not holding my breath.

I really would prefer if they don't try to "fix" OMD with another one, fucking with the timeline is a DC thing (And they are widely mocked for it), bad enough Marvel did it with OMD, but I would prefer they don't repeat it.