Superman: Space Age Announced

[manwhohaseverything]

The character designs and easter eggs are based off on donner and silverage..

My take on the character here,Clark's starting wasn't relatable..He felt like a hermit.the reality is when you don't have money,when the world has abject poverty..You are gonna be clawing for money,fame or whatever fuck that can help you..so,clark ain't relatable..But,clark acknowledges that(survival part)..Saving the world being the motive for any character was never endearing for me.it still ain't here.

Jonathan's whole "yours to save" ain't the reasoning for it.. Because i am in the boat of jor-el and world is just is.it could get better and worse.You don't save it you survive it.Jonathan was relatable and was effing cool for once.Which brings me back to relataitablity issue with superman itself.Jor-el and jonathan? relatable..clark kent? Less so.

The hat is back.It is freaking important for me.Why?as said,this ain't my superman.But,that hat tip when the police guy said "respect the law" and that jail break certainly felt like it.

Over all a decent read though..

[Vordan]

Q&A with Russell and Allred finally dropped

[Robotman]

Issue 2 solits:

Superman has arrived and he’s out of sight! Right? The world may love him, but the citizens of Metropolis are growing skeptical as the cities around them suffer without the help of the Man of Steel. The world doesn’t need saving as much as it needs changing, and Superman and his super friends in the Justice League seem unqualified to save the day the way they once did. Could this be the beginning of the end that Pariah prophesied? Or is it just a sign of the times?

seems to imply a time jump, so probably the late 60s/70s and the Bronze Age. “…the Justice League seem unqualified to save the day the way they once did.” I wonder if this will touch on the Hard Traveling Heroes era and the emergence of characters like John Stewart, The Teen Titans, and Black Lightning. I hope Allred gets a chance to draw the Doom Patrol.

Obviously the 3rd and final issue will be set in the 80s right before CoIE.

[j9ac9k]

I think seeing their version of SJW Green Arrow would be a hoot! (and I wonder if someone (BL?) will call him out on his privilege)

[Jim Kelly]

I think seeing their version of SJW Green Arrow would be a hoot! (and I wonder if someone (BL?) will call him out on his privilege)

According to Wikipedia--"From the early 1990s to the early 2000s, social-justice warrior was used as a neutral or complimentary phrase, as when a 1991 Montreal Gazette article describes union activist Michel Chartrand as a 'Quebec nationalist and social-justice warrior.'"

Leaving out the idea that Quebec nationalists are really about social justice--it seems that the term was only coined in the 1990s. The idea of "social justice" goes back to the 1800s, but the "warrior" idea is rather late and came about long after Hal and Ollie had finished their quest. In fact, by the early 1990s (before his death), Ollie seems like some wing-nut who reads Ayn Rand and spits on democratic values.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think Ollie would definitely be at home drinking a home brew in Portland or Austin down here in the states but he seems to me to be the one that would be calling out the JLA as a SJW and kind of oblivious to his own privilege. (I know SJW is interchangeable with a “kill joy” at best but I think it’s a compliment. It doesn’t sound like an insult to me.)

[Jim Kelly]

"Social justice warrior" isn't just anachronistic, it's also inaccurate in reference to Green Lantern and Green Arrow in the early 1970s. That term suggests they had a philosophy of social justice for which they were fighting. I would argue, they didn't know what social justice should be and that's why they set out on their quest.

In hindsight, Hal is pigeon-holed as the conservative and Ollie as the liberal, but in reality that wasn't the case. Both characters in the 1960s were probably Democrats by default, since most of their editors and writers were Democrats. Hal's early 1960s stories have a distinct Jack Kennedy feel to them. Ollie is the guy who comes from privilege.

By the late 1960s, both characters had upheavals in their lives. After leaving Coast City, on account of his ill-fated romance with Carol Ferris, Hal was aimless and at odds with the Guardians. Ollie, after growing a beard and changing his outfit, lost his fortune to a crook.

They set out on their quest to figure out who and what they should stand for. In any given story, they took varying social positions. When they got back from their travels, Green Arrow found that his sidekick was on drugs, yet he showed no compassion for Roy. It was Dinah and Hal who offered Speedy understanding and guidance.

O'Neil's Green Arrow and Batman both handled the drug problem as a purely criminal matter; they came down hard on anyone dealing drugs. They didn't look for social solutions. They routinely addressed lower class street criminals as "scum" and "crud"--as if they were worthless and without rights.

When the Emerald Archer got caught up in a race riot, he was assisted by an African-American youth, but then that guy was shot and died from his injuries. This pushed Queen to run for mayor; although, Clark questioned Oliver's motivations for choosing to run. Liberal guilt?

When the Brave Bowman killed a perp, it destroyed Ollie. He gave up everything and went to a Zen monastery to find himself. These are not the actions of a man who has figured it all out and knows his own values.

Retroactively, you could say the very early Siegel and Shuster Superman was a warrior for social justice--he believed he had all the answers and wasn't shy about fighting for his own brand of justice. However, he employed brute force to make people do what he considered just. Even though he taught those people moral lessons, they weren't willing participants. He was all stick, no carrot.

[j9ac9k]

Retroactively, you could say the very early Siegel and Shuster Superman was a warrior for social justice--he believed he had all the answers and wasn't shy about fighting for his own brand of justice. However, he employed brute force to make people do what he considered just. Even though he taught those people moral lessons, they weren't willing participants. He was all stick, no carrot.

Doesn't that describe almost all heroes? The one notable exception is Diana - she's the only one offering a carrot. It'll be interesting if she's presented this way next issue. (considering the time period of this series, I would expect so)

[The World]

Is this heavy on the Donner angle? I like what I'm hearing but I've never liked Jor-El teaching Kal-El how to be Superman.

[Zagre]

Yeah this was awesome. We could be in for a spacial one.

[manwhohaseverything]

Is this heavy on the Donner angle? I like what I'm hearing but I've never liked Jor-El teaching Kal-El how to be Superman.

Jor el does train clark..Yes, it's based on donner's take..

Retroactively, you could say the very early Siegel and Shuster Superman was a warrior for social justice--he believed he had all the answers and wasn't shy about fighting for his own brand of justice. However, he employed brute force to make people do what he considered just. Even though he taught those people moral lessons, they weren't willing participants. He was all stick, no carrot.

Do you really need to have all the answers to act like siegel and shusters superman?what if i say siegel and shusters superman had pretty much no answers and stumbling/falling around here and there like clark kent..But,in the meantime he needed to act.Did s&s superman teach moral lessons to people?or was the character just an extension of the frustrations,hopes, dreams and shere emotions felt by experiences of the creators.My read, i prefer to think of that superman as the idiot.But,maybe i wrong.

Ofcourse, superman had segments afterwards teaching kids to excercise and such..if i may.

[Ascended]

Is this heavy on the Donner angle? I like what I'm hearing but I've never liked Jor-El teaching Kal-El how to be Superman.

Not really, no. There's elements of Donner in the mix, like the crystal Kryptonian tech and AI Jor-El hologram, but mostly it's just a Silver Age riff. Of course, most people tend to think of Donner as reflecting the entirety of the Silver Age, so I suppose you "could" say that the influence is heavier and more direct, but I wouldn't. Maybe I just don't want to give Donner more undue credit; not every story built on Silver Age aesthetics is a Donner homage.

The Jor-El AI *does* teach Clark how to use his powers with more finesse and control, and provides knowledge Clark wouldn't get on a farm, but at no point did I really feel that Clark was just following the designs of either of his fathers. He finds his own way, and while the Kents and Jor-AI do provide guidance and support and Clark doesn't make the journey alone, I didn't feel like they took over Clark's agency.

Taking this book for what it is, a trip down Silver Age lane, I thought it was excellently executed, probably one of the best issues from all the various mini's we've gotten over the last few years. With only one issue down it's hard to judge, but I think when it's over this might maybe stand in the company of the other great mini's from the modern era like Smashes the Klan, maybe possibly even All-Star. And given the time period, it's quasi-introspective nature, introduction of other heroes, and it's connections to real historic events I also got a vague New Frontier vibe from it. But the book has a very distinct voice and personality that probably won't appeal to every reader, so it might not be for you. I dunno, but for myself, I thought this book was excellent.

Did s&s superman teach moral lessons to people?or was the character just an extension of the frustrations,hopes, dreams and shere emotions felt by experiences of the creators.My read, i prefer to think of that superman as the idiot.But,maybe i wrong.

He's both. That's why he works. Superman was very much the direct expression of the hopes *and* frustrations of two poor kids struggling to get by. But Superman wasn't just a "get even" tale, he aspired to be more than just revenge. Consider the Golden Age story where Clark forces a foreman to work in the same awful conditions as his workers. Yes Superman, via proxy, is working out the frustrations of the work force. But he's also teaching a lesson about how people should act towards each other. Clark doesn't force that foreman to work in his own conditions solely to punish him, he (also) does it so the foreman will recognize his errors and change his ways. Superman provides the catharsis of seeing crappy people get what they deserve, but there's still a moral to the story.

As for the stuff with Ollie, I find his hypocrisy one of his most interesting character traits. Dude was born rich, straight, white, and male. Hard to have more privledge in America than him. And he didn't start to shift into the knee-jerk liberal we know today until the problems of the "lower classes" slapped him in the face and he lost his money to white collar crime and his sidekick to drugs. He had to get bit personally before he gave a damn about these issues. So yeah, Ollie's a dick, bitching about the The Man when he himself was, and still largely is, The Man. In a lot of ways, he embodies many current complaints about democrats; out of touch hypocrite elites who want to save the poor underprivileged wretches from themselves and can't understand why their self-righteous soapboxing pisses everyone off. That, to me, is an interesting character hook. Not because Ollie is a model to follow or because I necessarily agree with him, but because it makes for a fun, complex character with multi-layered motivations.

And I love how Ollie and Clark interact. They're a lot alike and I think they both dislike that about themselves.

[Vordan]

Is this heavy on the Donner angle? I like what I'm hearing but I've never liked Jor-El teaching Kal-El how to be Superman.

You get bits of the Donner take but it’s definitely not the sole influence. It’s not Superman ‘78 and I wouldn’t say the influence is heavy.

[Vordan]

And I love how Ollie and Clark interact. They're a lot alike and I think they both dislike that about themselves.

I just need someone to write Clark reminding Ollie he’s the one who grew up on a farm, so of the two it’s Ollie who doesn’t know squat about the common man lol. But yeah they have some overlap.

[manwhohaseverything]

He's both. That's why he works. Superman was very much the direct expression of the hopes *and* frustrations of two poor kids struggling to get by. But Superman wasn't just a "get even" tale, he aspired to be more than just revenge. Consider the Golden Age story where Clark forces a foreman to work in the same awful conditions as his workers. Yes Superman, via proxy, is working out the frustrations of the work force. But he's also teaching a lesson about how people should act towards each other. Clark doesn't force that foreman to work in his own conditions solely to punish him, he (also) does it so the foreman will recognize his errors and change his ways. Superman provides the catharsis of seeing crappy people get what they deserve, but there's still a moral to the story.

He can be both..But,as said above..Without the latter superman lacks bite..He feels distant,unrelatable..etc.I can't connect.Revenge ain't his motive agreed..But,justice?that sure is.Changing the person or the world might not be in his purview or motive for doing things though.It was more of "i was going to get a burger and some jackass was hitting this woman,so i reacted since no one was willing to do anything".I always felt clark just wanted to follow ideals like truth,liberty and justice.