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  1. #301
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    What was established in 1982, by the then artist and colourist and writer would have to change because
    1: The drawing and colouring technology is vastly changed and improved.
    1: Greater information is easily accessible.
    3: The character has physically changed...as these characters do over the course of their in universe time.

    And still...Since inception and across her entire publication history, Storm has been rendered by so many different artists each with as varied a style from the last. Yet...whether it was with a dark brown, light brown or medium brown complexion...finer or fuller features...braided hair, wavy hair, curly hair, straight hair...a fuller figure, a more athletic body...all due to artistic style and interpretation yet we all, most of us anyway who've been reading the X-Men for decades, see her and accept as Storm (regardless whether or not we hold her up to be a bastion of Black Woman representation...as fictional characters go, I don't). Why can't the same acceptance of artistic license be applied to Sunspot? (I am not referencing the movie) Because, as I pointed out earlier, he too, like many other characters have looked different, but not significantly so as in XMR, from artist to artist. It's not some deep-rooted insidious agenda by Casselli and other artists as you and a few are purporting.

    The rate by which this topic comes up every few months, everytime an artist depicts a POC slightly different to what been "established" decades ago, you would think the entirety of Marvel is just filled with creatives who have racist agendas...and if that's what you and others think and believe, I have to ask...why are you still financially supporting them?

    point to note:
    Enoch was born in 1988.
    Roberto Da Costa was "born" in 1982.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 04-13-2022 at 09:33 AM.
    Krakoa and Planet Arakko...TO BE CONTINUED. FOREVER!!!

  2. #302
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    Can you help me understand what making that distinction contributes to a conversation about whitewashing black characters' skin colors?
    Sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    I don't know why I'm continuously surprised by people dismissing Sunspot's whitewashing. "He's gotten progressively lighter with looser hair texture because they're trying to visually show that his mother is white." Oh, is that it? LOL.

    At least they finally fixed it with Monet for the most part but Sunspot still looks like, well, anything under the sun depending on who's drawing him and at this point it's egregious. He was introduced as dark-skinned and curly haired, that is how he should look. Again, if people are confused, Alfred Enoch's photo is right there. It's funny how white characters are never mistakenly or ambiguously drawn to look anything but white but characters of color are allowed to be all over the place, visually. Almost as if...no, couldn't be.
    It was obviously already part of the conversation and Alfred Enoch was already brought up in reference to his hair.

    (and honestly, if he showed up with an afro that would be cool, I don't get anything out of him being so interchangeable with everyone else).
    Last edited by cranger; 04-13-2022 at 09:23 AM.

  3. #303
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    This conversation about appearance, color of skin… is just a matter of laziness in my opinion rather than racism…

    Of course, Roberto Da Costa can look like “this”… but does it do really do justice to the character? It’s so more interesting when characters are peculiar, unique…
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  4. #304
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technopriest View Post
    The US has weird concepts when it comes to race and ethnicity, to the point that they confuse place of birth with what race/ethnicity you are supposed to be. I am considered a POC in the US because of where I was born, even though I would be white if I was born in the US (I am Italian/Greek/Spanish). I also happen to be 6'2" and light skinned so nobody even thinks I am latin until I tell them where I am from, so I don't know if I would take the American perspective when it comes to race as a definite on anything. But in the case of Berto, he has always been depicted as mulatto, he is of mixed background and if you have seen mixed Brazilians you would know that they don't particularly look like a lot of other people of African ancestry due to their mix. Roberto to me looks like he always has before.
    I used to have a friend that was a white guy originally from Africa. It was hilarious listening to people trip all over themselves trying to correct him whenever he claimed to be "African American".

  5. #305
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man;[URL="tel:6007837"
    6007837[/URL]]More the features of an Afro-Brazilian, which Roberto has clearly been stated to be.
    Duuuude Right!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya;[URL="tel:6007862"
    6007862[/URL]]
    And not discounting that his mother is a red-headed, White American woman....one might say that Casselli and Blee's version of Roberto is probably closer to a "real life" visual representation of a mixed Afro Brazilian (and considering the technically limited colour palette that was available to comic book artists/colourists in the 1980's)
    Huh? Why would this be closer to 'real life's you're arguing that people who are mixed race come in various colors by policing the various colors lol limiting color palette? They had light brown in the 1980s

    Quote Originally Posted by Technopriest;[URL="tel:6007866"
    6007866[/URL]]I really shouldn't get involved since these discussions never end well, but as a fellow southamerican that has actually spent time in Brasil, all I will say is that Roberto does look like a Brazilian MULATTO, which is what Roberto actually is and has always been depicted as. And yes, I've no idea that there were different standards for the way Latin Americans are supposed to look like, since we come in a multitude of colors, from llilly white to very dark.
    As a fellow biracial dude, all I will say is we come in various colors From Drake to Lenny Kravitz lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Is that a prolem? How do you know the Fisher King isnt supposed to be a person of color? He definitely didnt look the same skin tone as Magneto who is clearly white. The Fisher King was giving me Gateway vibes
    Lord pleeease don't drag Gateway into this lol
    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs;[URL="tel:6008564"
    6008564[/URL]]I don't know why I'm continuously surprised by people dismissing Sunspot's whitewashing. "He's gotten progressively lighter with looser hair texture because they're trying to visually show that his mother is white." Oh, is that it? LOL.
    bruh this cracked me up!!! Like c'mon you think of something better than that surely!

    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs;[URL="tel:6008855"
    6008855[/URL]]At least they finally fixed it with Monet for the most part but Sunspot still looks like, well, anything under the sun depending on who's drawing him and at this point it's egregious. He was introduced as dark-skinned and curly haired, that is how he should look. Again, if people are confused, Alfred Enoch's photo is right there. It's funny how white characters are never mistakenly or ambiguously drawn to look anything but white but characters of color are allowed to be all over the place, visually. Almost as if...no, couldn't be.
    Yesss! Sh!t would pop off if Hulk 2as wrong shade of Green or Jean's hair wasn't red Buti guess black people real life Mutants the way folks think we can morph facial features and chameleon our skin color lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled;[URL="tel:6008611"
    6008611[/URL]]Trust me, the distance between ambiguous brown skinned, wavy haired Roberto and "Let's cast Henry Zaga coz he's tanned and Brazilian" is not long.
    Its rather short actually

    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs;[URL="tel:6008855"
    6008855[/URL]]
    Okay, let's try it this way. There may not be a standard for how an average Afro-Brazilian/White Brazilian should look, but there is a standard for how Sunspot should look; it was established in 1982. Why are we expected to accept that Black characters, even if the standard for how they should look is dark-skinned, will at times be significantly lighter and "less Black looking?" Sunspot already represents people with his background who look like him; again, refer to Alfie Enoch who has the same ethnic background.
    Right? If anything with his solar absorbtion powers you'd think he'd be getting darker lol

    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs;[URL="tel:6008855"
    6008855[/URL]]Marvel (FOX) has already not once but twice cast "not at all Black looking" actors to play a character with significant Black ancestry who is dark skinned. But he doesn't get whitewashed. Okay...
    lol 3 times if you count The Gifted...smdh

    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs;[URL="tel:6008880"
    6008880[/URL]]Hmmm..............

    Lol bruhhh Let 'em know!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya;[URL="tel:6008912"
    6008912[/URL]]What was established in 1982, by the then artist and colourist and writer would have to change because
    1: The drawing and colouring technology is vastly changed and improved.
    1: Greater information is easily accessible.
    3: The character has physically changed...as these characters do over the course of their in universe time.
    Here he is in 1987
    5 years and still no light brown?? And since when did artists in the 1980s become unable to draw different facial features!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya;[URL="tel:6007862"
    6007862[/URL]] And still...Since inception and across her entire publication history, Storm has been rendered by so many different artists each with as varied a style from the last. Yet...whether it was with a dark brown, light brown or medium brown complexion...finer or fuller features...braided hair, wavy hair, curly hair, straight hair...a fuller figure, a more athletic body...all due to artistic style and interpretation yet we all, most of us anyway who've been reading the X-Men for decades, see her and accept as Storm (regardless whether or not we hold her up to be a bastion of Black Woman representation...as fictional characters go, I don't). Why can't the same acceptance of artistic license be applied to Sunspot?
    because Storm doesn't switch races and facial features every couple of artists??

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya;[URL="tel:6007862"
    6007862[/URL]] The rate by which this topic comes up every few months, everytime an artist depicts a POC slightly different to what been "established" decades ago, you would think the entirety of Marvel is just filled with creatives who have racist agendas...and if that's what you and others think and believe, I have to ask...why are you still financially supporting them?
    Errr if I had to stop using products/services that with racist leanings I'd probably starve to death. And why is established in quotes. I've seen people dreg up a panel or 2 from the mid 1970s that establishes a small aspect of a minor characters power. But can't do the same on how characters look?? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya;[URL="tel:6007862"
    6007862[/URL]] point to note:
    Enoch was born in 1988.
    Roberto Da Costa was "born" in 1982.
    Yes. Facts!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I used to have a friend that was a white guy originally from Africa. It was hilarious listening to people trip all over themselves trying to correct him whenever he claimed to be "African American".
    Since Africa is a continent They were probably just trying to correct him and ask him what country he was from
    GrindrStone(D)

  6. #306
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    it definitely gives meaning to some people with certain shades all "look alike" to some people. that's for sure. Just throw some brown paint on it and it's not whitewashing apparently. But one thing i've noticed is there are pr posters that have some affiliation with marvel in some respect or shops and try to "soften" things when it comes to reactions.
    Nah. The problem is the ones complaining that it's white-washing in this issue can't even explain why it's white-washing.

    And which users here are affiliated with Marvel and comic shops? That just sounds like paranoia.
    "Cable was right!"

  7. #307
    2022: The Year of Hellion Rift's Avatar
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    I'm affiliated with Marvel. My job is to hype everyone up for Hellion, whom Marvel wants to push as the next face of the X-Men. Quentin was sort of a "testing ground" for ideas, to see what could work and what couldn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Hellion is the talk of the boards and rightfully so.

  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    I'm affiliated with Marvel. My job is to hype everyone up for Hellion, whom Marvel wants to push as the next face of the X-Men. Quentin was sort of a "testing ground" for ideas, to see what could work and what couldn't.
    You're doing a fine job, friend. Hellion is the talk of the boards and rightfully so.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  9. #309
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Does anyone else not understand the last few pages at all? Roberto just looked like Roberto in the book.

  10. #310
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Does anyone else not understand the last few pages at all? Roberto just looked like Roberto in the book.
    Yupp. I like this all growed up and hawtt version, but I'm old and I need spectacles to read so...maybe I'm just not seeing what some few are calling out. Apart from the hairstyle...
    Roberto 01.jpg
    Roberto 02.jpg
    Roberto 03.jpg
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 04-14-2022 at 09:41 AM.
    Krakoa and Planet Arakko...TO BE CONTINUED. FOREVER!!!

  11. #311
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think the hair not being curly seems to be the biggest issue, in terms of his seemingly having been whitewashed.
    “Not as good as I once was… but I’m as good, once, as I ever was.”

  12. #312
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    I'm affiliated with Marvel. My job is to hype everyone up for Hellion, whom Marvel wants to push as the next face of the X-Men. Quentin was sort of a "testing ground" for ideas, to see what could work and what couldn't.
    Makes sense. After all, it’s clear that Marvel having paid operatives (plants) on these message boards to both hype their products and downplay potential controversies has a tremendous ROI for the company. Nothing moves the needle for them sales-wise like chatter on the CBR forums, clearly.
    “Not as good as I once was… but I’m as good, once, as I ever was.”

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Makes sense. After all, it’s clear that Marvel having paid operatives (plants) on these message boards to both hype their products and downplay potential controversies has a tremendous ROI for the company. Nothing moves the needle for them sales-wise like chatter on the CBR forums, clearly.
    Don't tell Jwatson, from the Judgment Day thread it appears he thinks we are here to bury the X-men instead.

  14. #314
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Nah. The problem is the ones complaining that it's white-washing in this issue can't even explain why it's white-washing.
    Yes because thaaaats the always the problem...Jebus
    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya;[URL="tel:6010240"
    6010240[/URL]]Yupp. I like this all growed up and hawtt version, but I'm old and I need spectacles to read so...maybe I'm just not seeing what some few are calling out. Apart from the hairstyle...
    Roberto 01.jpg
    Roberto 02.jpg
    Roberto 03.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Yeah, I think the hair not being curly seems to be the biggest issue, in terms of his seemingly having been whitewashed.
    It's the fact that he looks indistinguishable from a white character aside from the tan he's rocking. With all the flack the New Mutants casting got you'd think they'd do better for Sunspot. Any other questions? Or confusion?
    GrindrStone(D)

  15. #315
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    No confusion. Totally agree. Just saying the biggest issue would seem to be the hair. Not saying there aren’t other features that could or should look more like a POC, but just getting the hair right would be a huge step in the right direction and would help more than anything. In case my post wasn’t clear.
    “Not as good as I once was… but I’m as good, once, as I ever was.”

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