Startling Stories: The Sentry Appreciation 2022

[Vault]

Not quite. Generals and Masterminds main goal was to make the Sentry erase everyones memories of him being the Sentry. General asks Mastermind how that works. And Mastermind tells him that Sentry will be afraid to use his powers, because otherwise the devil would come and destroy everything. So he would erase his and everyones memories of him being the Sentry and wouldn't even know about his powers.

The issue with the Mastermind explanation is that it creates a new origin to the Void, one that has him only existing after everyone begins to remember Sentry, suggesting that the Void wasn't Sentry's nemesis during the glory days (before the wipe). It removes one of Sentry's more interesting plot points, the fact that Sentry and Void were considered to be two distinct people for most of Bob's career, where they duked it out like Superman and Lex Luthor and everyone just thought Void was another super villain. Then, one day, they discover that the Void and Sentry are the same person. GASP! It's the twist of the century! Sentry and Reed then create a device to save the day because the Void is also becoming too powerful and killed a ton of people. The device makes everyone forget Sentry, including Bob himself. This story is way more interesting than the Mastermind version, as I think we all agree.

That's simple. In New Avengers Emma Frost helps Sentry unlock his memories. He doesn't remember absolutely everything and has to figure some stuff out on his own, which is why his arc in New Avengers ends with him entering the Watchtower. But they both talk about how it's not a problem that he was erasing everyones memories. He was forced to do it and he was doing it without even knowing it. But to do it on purpose would be wrong. Which is why he never made everyone remember him and started off from the beginning. And that's okay, if you want to take the Sentry in that direction. I even like that, because in the first Sentry mini there was the Sentry... and then there was everyone else. He was pretty much the only hero, who could operate on a global scale just like that. That makes you much more popular than any other Marvel hero (in their world). So it's good to have that reset and not make everyone remember that you are the Jesus Christ Superstar of all heroes.

That's what actually happened in the comics. What I'm asking is, if we were to retcon Bendis' Mastermind explanation and return to the original mini, basically throwing out the New Avengers story you're referring to, how would we want to explain the way everyone remembers him? How does Sentry return to the world if the reason he was forgotten is the Confluctor?

[Golden_Guardian]

From the man himself:

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[ENTRYS]

Most casual readers believe that the Sentry suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder (old term: Multiple Personality Disorder). That's why you see every online comic website or Youtube mainstream comic Youtube channel, who don't read as much into the backstory of all the characters, refer to Void as Sentrys split personality. Which it isn't. Moon Knight has multiple personalities. Sentry has schizophrenia. It's just one guy, whose mind plays tricks on him and makes him believe things that aren't real. There are schizophrenics, who think that they're God or the devil. Bob thinks so too, but he is a reality warper and turns that into reality.

Paul Jenkins can send all the mental assessments to Marvel he wants, but fact is that his first mini didn't focus on mental illness at all. The second mini focused a little bit on it, but had other, more prevalent themes and topics. And Bendis then straight up wrote and displayed the Sentry in a way, where on a basic fundamental level it did look like Sentry had DID. You could still explain everything as schizophrenia, but it wasn't as obvious to normal people, who haven't read into that mental illness. To them Sentry was simply a split personality. And Bendis knew that. In an interview he started that Sentry doesn't have multiple personalities and that he has written stories like that. This was something else. But he never pointed out what it was exactly.

The sad part is that making it look like a character has DID over schizophrenia makes them infinitely more boring, because DID is much more easy to understand and portray. "This personality is good, while this personality is bad and this other personality is the next big superstar singer." Not so much with schizophrenia, where a character sees and hears things, which are not there and believes things, which aren't real. You can do sooo much with that. But no one ever did, when it comes to the Sentry. And that's a pity. Obviously the Sentry shouldn't be reduced to his mental illness and has that as his only on-going trait. You don't even do the same to Hulk, who has his own deep issues, which make him much more complex than just "Hulk smash". But we're at a point, where it's all about "Sentry Voidsmash". Does Donny Cates even know what mental issues Sentry has? Does any editor outside of maybe (hopefully) Tom Breevort know? I doubt it.

That's what actually happened in the comics. What I'm asking is, if we were to retcon Bendis' Mastermind explanation and return to the original mini, basically throwing out the New Avengers story you're referring to, how would we want to explain the way everyone remembers him? How does Sentry return to the world if the reason he was forgotten is the Confluctor?

That's impossible to answer, since the Mastermind instance in New Avengers introduced the idea of Sentry having enough psychic power to wipe everyones memories of himself and force them to ignore all evidence of his existence (if there was a magazine with Sentry in it, people wouldn't read or even count that issue). So that happened canonically. And if you accept that, you can easily make the head-canon argument that the Confluctor only worked, because Sentry believed it would work. You had Strange and Reed approach the Sentry and tell him that they would build this machine, which would make everyone forget - and Sentry would turn that into reality. (Again, this is head canon to explain how it could be possible.) But in the first mini there are also statements that the Confluctor being turned off results in a shift in reality, which makes that happen. So Sentry having reality-altering powers was always his main ability, from the first mini. That's not something only Bendis invented later on.

There was also Marvel Knights 20th or something, where a bunch of Marvel heroes (Daredevil, Punisher and others) were trying to figure out something that had been forgotten. And they came across the Sentry, who was using the Confluctor to make everyone forget and was also guarding it. And he told them that the mind wipe happened many times, because they had visited him before and asked him to turn it off. Again, is that the devices doing or Sentrys?
And in the third mini you had the Confluctor device doing something else entirely. Now it wasn't erasing everyones memories, but allowing the Sentry to enter a different dimension and fight the Void safely. Again... is that only the case, because the Sentry believes it to be the case or was the Confluctor altered by Tony Stark to fulfill that purpose? Again, head canon, but it would make sense. Although real-world-talk: I don't think that's what Jeff Lemire had in mind, otherwise he would have had Iron Man simply pull a new random fake device out of his butt and tell Bob (make him believe) that it was the real, working Confluctor.

[Tendrin]

Paul Jenkins can send all the mental assessments to Marvel he wants, but fact is that his first mini didn't focus on mental illness at all.

It was very focused on mental health, just not loudly. Every narrative choice made, however, furthers it's role as an allegorical tale about the mentally ill and how they're treated. The second person narration, for example, is a tool to show Bob's disassociation from his own life. Jenkins did the research, but he didn't spell it out in the text too frequently. His original mini is a bit deeper than people sometimes give it credit for.

[ENTRYS]

It was very focused on mental health, just not loudly. Every narrative choice made, however, furthers it's role as an allegorical tale about the mentally ill and how they're treated. The second person narration, for example, is a tool to show Bob's disassociation from his own life. Jenkins did the research, but he didn't spell it out in the text too frequently. His original mini is a bit deeper than people sometimes give it credit for.

Yeah, you and I know that. But complex allegories aren't a good way to handle those themes, because 20 years later the mouth-breathing masses still view the Sentry as "crazy Superman with multiple personalities". Not everyone is aware of the Jenkins tweets, where he clarifies those things - or my forum threads and Youtube videos on the Sentry, which explain some of that stuff. Casual consumers just see what is originally in front of them without bothering to read deeper into it. And they're left with surface-level stuff, which... (in the case of the first mini) doesn't look like Sentry is dealing with mental issues.

Have you ever seen the movie "Mother!" with Jennifer Lawrence? It's a complete mind-**** of a movie, which is filled with confusion and randomness. You're forced to read online what you just saw to make sense from people either smarter than you or who did the research like reading interviews and were able to piece everything together and present it in a more digestible way. And when you do everything starts to make sense and you can appreciate all of it much more than before. But that requires you to seek that information out. Most people won't figure that stuff out on their own, because it is too abstract. And Jenkins allegories were too abstract IMHO.

[Tendrin]

Yeah, you and I know that. But complex allegories aren't a good way to handle those themes, because 20 years later the mouth-breathing masses still view the Sentry as "crazy Superman with multiple personalities". Not everyone is aware of the Jenkins tweets, where he clarifies those things - or my forum threads and Youtube videos on the Sentry, which explain some of that stuff. Casual consumers just see what is originally in front of them without bothering to read deeper into it. And they're left with surface-level stuff, which... (in the case of the first mini) doesn't look like Sentry is dealing with mental issues.

Have you ever seen the movie "Mother!" with Jennifer Lawrence? It's a complete mind-**** of a movie, which is filled with confusion and randomness. You're forced to read online what you just saw to make sense from people either smarter than you or who did the research like reading interviews and were able to piece everything together and present it in a more digestible way. And when you do everything starts to make sense and you can appreciate all of it much more than before. But that requires you to seek that information out. Most people won't figure that stuff out on their own, because it is too abstract. And Jenkins allegories were too abstract IMHO.

I still need to see Mother! someday.

[Vault]

I think I've figured out a way to reconcile the Sentry mini (The Confluctor) with Bendis' New Avengers #10 (General/Mastermind mental whammy). Marvel Knights 20th, as well as Bendis' original strategy to remove the Void, gave me the idea.

After the original Sentry mini (2000), the power of the Confluctor continued to fail; Bob would begin to remember who he was, as would the rest of the world, and the Void would return. CLOC's records indicated that this was the truth, and the heroes realized that this strategy employed to remove Void from the board was doomed to eventually fail. The solution came from the X-Men. The psychic mutants (perhaps it was Emma Frost herself) recognized that Bob's powers had a powerful mental component (as Emma notes in New Avengers #10) that shaped Sentry's powers and, thus, the Void's as well. A false memory was implanted in Bob in which the Crazed General and Mastermind had captured the Sentry and caused him to make everyone forget. As Emma already was familiar with Mastermind's powers, she was able to help create this false memory and the mechanisms required to make it stick. These new memories suggested that the Void was nothing more than a delusion created by Mastermind. If Sentry was ever remembered again, this false memory would be uncovered, and from that point forward, Bob's mind would do the rest: he would be convinced that the Void was delusion, and therefore it would be. At least, that was the theory.

What actually happened was what we saw play out. Bob began to remember who he was, the Avengers came in to help, and Emma uncovered the false memory. Perhaps she even realized that it was false, but understood its purpose. This is what she shared with Bob. This is why the Void went away for a time. And this is why it didn't stick: the memory WAS a lie. The Void was more than a delusion, and he returned.

That's my head canon, anyway

[Tendrin]

Good lord. There's just an endless parade of sentry clickbait articles.

[Vault]

Good lord. There's just an endless parade of sentry clickbait articles.

"The Superman of the Marvel Universe knows this one trick that your dentist will hate!"

[Tendrin]

"The Superman of the Marvel Universe knows this one trick that your dentist will hate!"

He'll blow up the MCU!

He won't blow up the MCU!

No Way Home makes him redundant!

No Way Home makes him possible!

Sentry is grist for a content mill because his fans and his haters are both have intense feelings for the character, so the clickbait articles just keep coming.

[Vault]

No Way Home makes him redundant!

No Way Home makes him possible!

I chuckled when I saw those two headlines last week. CBR's editorial needs to make up their mind! It is interesting that the Spider-Man movie writers took Sentry's story and applied it to Peter. OMD on steroids... I'm not a fan, that's supposed to be Bob's schtick!

But to your point, agreed, there's a lot of Sentry click bait and not enough "Sentry will return in his own on-going series this summer!" We need some headlines like that. Get him out of Valhalla already! And where's the Void? What about the piece of Void in Cyclops' head? What about the whole Sentry-Void hybrid thing, are we just going to forget about that?

Give us more Bob, oh house of Marvels!

[Tendrin]

OH COME ON THEY HAD TO GO THERE??
https://screenrant.com/rogue-sentry-...powers-tragic/

[The Invincible Beawulf]

OH COME ON THEY HAD TO GO THERE??
https://screenrant.com/rogue-sentry-...powers-tragic/

well, it's an article... nowadays, i don't really read screenrant articles on superhero comics/characters bc of their poor quality in general

[Tendrin]

well, it's an article... nowadays, i don't really read screenrant articles on superhero comics/characters bc of their poor quality in general

Yeah, Screenrant's articles have become horrible.

[Wildling]

About Sentry movies, have you guys seen Sony's El Muerto movie announcement? A part of me wishes Sentry or the Void counted as part of the Spiderverse to get an actual solo movie. Because the movie industry is plagued by extreme nostalgia in general not just for superheroes, and successful solo adaptations for characters created after Wolverine, Venom and Deadpool I think stop short at Hellboy, and that was only good for 2 movies and one failed reboot attempt.

But to say never say never, Sentry has stuck around in comics for a surprising amount of time, even with mistakes made along the way, so he might be becoming familiar enough. He might have a Disney+ shot like Moon Knight got, even if I hear that show isn't very good so that might not inspire confidence.

If we assume his Bendisverse era is for better or worse his most influential, I think Bob's best shot for a theatrical movie is as part of an ensemble adaptating Thunderbolts or Dark Avengers.

And in comic news, the last Thor issue features a twist regarding Valhalla. I haven't been able to shake off the feeling he'd be used as mostly cannon fodder for these Cates comics ever since we got Thor's Thanos vision, but for better or worse the wheels of Sentry's return should be already turning.