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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    even without this scenario by the end of the War Japan had lost near their entire Navy and Air Force and was essentially out of oil and other war materials with their manufacturing capability essentially gone. So Island hopping is going to be kind of difficult. Also there's the whole thing of being blockaded by the largest and most relatively powerful Navy in the history of the world(US Navy was over 6000 commissioned ships strong by the end of WW2 and still had new ships being churned out at an astonishing speed). I mean even a relatively short "hop" like the Korean strait is still about 120 miles and would be heavily patrolled and guarded at sea, by air, and with coastal defenses. Pretty sure Wolverine has admitted he can still drown.

  2. #17
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiromi View Post
    even without this scenario by the end of the War Japan had lost near their entire Navy and Air Force and was essentially out of oil and other war materials with their manufacturing capability essentially gone. So Island hopping is going to be kind of difficult. Also there's the whole thing of being blockaded by the largest and most relatively powerful Navy in the history of the world(US Navy was over 6000 commissioned ships strong by the end of WW2 and still had new ships being churned out at an astonishing speed). I mean even a relatively short "hop" like the Korean strait is still about 120 miles and would be heavily patrolled and guarded at sea, by air, and with coastal defenses. Pretty sure Wolverine has admitted he can still drown.
    Wolverine can drown because his adamantium bones weigh him down. Human bodies float naturally, they do not sink. Not to mention WII level technology is not exactly the height of monitoring and reconnaissance.

  3. #18
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Wolverine can drown because his adamantium bones weigh him down. Human bodies float naturally, they do not sink. Not to mention WII level technology is not exactly the height of monitoring and reconnaissance.
    Human bodies with a Wolverine level of body fat most certainly do NOT float. I don't float, and I don't have a Wolverine level of body fat. They might float once dead and bacteria start producing gasses that can't escape, but not prior. And certainly not while being shot and bombed.

    The adamantium bones just make it difficult to swim, him dying is all about drowning.

    Even if he could heal from that, he'd heal right back to being drowned underwater, with water-filled lungs and such.

    Japan wasn't surrendering because they had a culture that didn't really accept that (their god emperor couldn't have been wrong, and even if he was, nobody was going to tell him this) AND had a massive racial superiority complex. Their citizens were only hearing one-sided propaganda - pretty common in a dictatorship, especially one without shared borders. By mid 1945, their ability to make war on a large scale, and their ability to move even moderate numbers of troops, was basically nonexistant. They had lost their access to oil, the vast majority of their Navy was on the bottom of several different oceans and seas, the few pilots they had were green and very poorly trained*, their few remaining aircraft were poorly maintained and pretty much obsolete to boot. And of course their manufacturing capacity had been reduced from "battleships" to "shoelaces, some of the time." They had no chance to win anything at all, no chance to avoid eventual surrender, well before Little Boy. That just pushed the capitulation forward a long, long way.

    * The US had a pretty intelligent plan in the Pacific theater: successful pilots would rotate back to the States to train new pilots, ensuring a steady flow of well-trained pilots arriving in theater. Japan didn't do this: experienced pilots stayed in theater, so their replacements were very poorly-trained.
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  4. #19
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    There was almost a coup against surrendering. So given they didn't surrender from bombing, the development of the Wolverines might easily been seen as a divine message, esp. with the swords. A sword is one of their sacred symbols from the Gods, so that might ditch any surrender plans from that faction.

    Another thought, the Japanese had a plan to use existing large subs to attack the Panama canal with sea planes launched from the subs. The surrender ditched that. However, loading up those subs with a few hundred Wolverines and put on the West Coast might be exciting.
    Last edited by Captain Smith; 04-18-2022 at 12:02 PM.

  5. #20
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    There was almost a coup against surrendering. So given they didn't surrender from bombing, the development of the Wolverines might easily been seen as a divine message, esp. with the swords. A sword is one of their sacred symbols from the Gods, so that might ditch any surrender plans from that faction.

    Another thought, the Japanese had a plan to use existing large subs to attack the Panama canal with sea planes launched from the subs. The surrender ditched that. However, loading up those subs with a few hundred Wolverines and put on the West Coast might be exciting.
    They had zero way of implementing that plan, however, as they literally didn't have the resources to get the subs to Panama at that time. They lacked oil, they lacked support ships, and what remained of their fleet (and it wasn't much by then) was trapped on the home islands. They had lots of plans, but no way of actually making them happen. Again, this scenario takes away anything they could use to try to get subs free, as they lack planes and guns and bombs and mines and everything else they'd need to do that. They already lacked the fuel and the tenders they'd need well before that time.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  6. #21
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Human bodies with a Wolverine level of body fat most certainly do NOT float. I don't float, and I don't have a Wolverine level of body fat.
    I'm not going to hijack this discussion debating this point, but you're wrong about that. Your density (especially your lungs) is lower than that of water, therefore physics say you *will* float. You actually have to expend energy to not float.

    A human drowns because certain parts of their body, namely their head, etc. are heavier and tend to go down the water, then they exhaust themselves and drown. A human with a Wolverine-level healing factor does not tire, and hence will not do so (in addition to no-selling the usual scrapes and injuries from dehydration, starvation and long-term salt water immersion).
    Last edited by Twickster; 04-18-2022 at 04:49 PM.

  7. #22
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Your density (especially your lungs) is lower than that of water, therefore physics say you *will* float.
    On average yes, but there are exceptions to the rule.

    Kind of a silly argument, regardless, because if they're Wolverine level they're in the ballpark of CBPH which means it really doesn't fucking matter how well they float because they're physically more capable than Olympic level athletes.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  8. #23
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    They had zero way of implementing that plan, however, as they literally didn't have the resources to get the subs to Panama at that time. They lacked oil, they lacked support ships, and what remained of their fleet (and it wasn't much by then) was trapped on the home islands. They had lots of plans, but no way of actually making them happen. Again, this scenario takes away anything they could use to try to get subs free, as they lack planes and guns and bombs and mines and everything else they'd need to do that. They already lacked the fuel and the tenders they'd need well before that time.
    Again, this is thinking the way *usual* battles go. The Wolverine soldiers don't need logistics, they don't need oil, or support ships, or etc. They don't get sick, or need rest time, or are out of commission 1/3 of each day (for sleep). They don't decrease in combat effectiveness or unit strength. I doubt they even need food. They don't need to invade en masse like how they did in WWII (because invading en masse was the only way to inflict damage in WWII) - they no longer have that limitation, and hence have expanded their options. They can blend into the population, or go into hiding for months or years, then start killing politicians, civil leaders, etc. Unlikely, you say? IJA troops hid out for decades thinking WWII never ended.

    Granted, invading the US or Europe may be a stretch, but China? Korea? I'm betting those are done for (or at the very least, the possibility of a stable and secure government even forming - that is going to mess up the US and Europe). Possibly the eastern parts of Russia as well. No way a blockade can be enforced. Basically, it will be a much more unstable world all around.

    Japan doesn't "win", but nobody else does either.
    Last edited by Twickster; 04-18-2022 at 05:15 PM.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postmania View Post
    There's no universe outside of wacky godlike powers on one side or another where this invasion goes well for anyone.
    Now I'm imagining a universe where Rick Sanchez uses his god-like science to help both the allies and the axis but then takes them all out to prove a point.

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