Operation Olympic and Admantium swords

[Captain Smith]

One may remember What If where the Allies used a gamma bomb on Japan rather than the atomic bomb. This unleashed 1000s of hulks and leaders, winning the war for Japan.

So here's another one. Due to whatever supernatural process or spell one likes, the Japanese forces facing the invasion plan known as Operation Olympic:

1. Lose all their firearms, gunpowder and explosive weapons.
2. All the troops are granted Wolverine level healing powers but no admantium skeletons but they have the physical strength, reflexes, etc. of classic Wolverine.
3. Each soldier gets an admantium katana.

The Allies have all their WWII technology and weapons. How does the invasion go?

[Sharpandpointies]

The invasion proceeds very badly. For everyone.

Softening up for the invasion with bombing and bombardment leads to massive casualties among civilians. Like, appalling. However, it really doesn't affect what the Japanese military forces have become, because....

1. They don't have any real infrastructure upon which they depend;
2. They don't have any equipment that's critical;
3. Except for a few of them who are hit like...DIRECTLY by bombardment and literally blown to pieces, they're fine afterwards.

After which the invasion begins, and then to their horror the Americans find themselves against thousands of nigh-unstoppable warriors who move too fast to follow. Bullets that actually hit them don't stop them, and barely slow them down (unless it's a massive fusillade directed at one person, and that leaves a whole lot more Wolverine Soldiers not being fired upon). Then they get up after they're 'killed' and stab their killers in the back.

They also very quickly arm themselves with the gear from the invasion force that makes it onto the Japanese islands, and things get even worse.

Aside: The adamantium swords add little to the Wolverine Soldiers other than basically giving them an unbreakable weapon..

Anyway, the invasion fails with truly massive loss of life on both sides (except for the Wolverine Soldiers, who come out of it with minimal losses). The Americans go back to bombing Japan. The Japanese civilians suffer and die. The Wolverine Soldiers basically become an undefeatable guerilla force who cannot affect the world in a meaningful way, because they can't really leave Japan.

Tie game, everyone loses; this is really a horrific scenario.

Alternately, without the atomic bomb being dropped, Japan manages to work out a negotiated peace before the invasion begins, as according to many it was already preparing and/or attempting to do. <-- I like this version a whole lot better, even if it means we have thousands of people with ridiculous healing factors running around. Certainly the human race would look very different by 2022!

[Captain Smith]

Just as a point, without the atomic bomb - the fire bombing of cities would continue. The Russian threat to enter the war was a big enough threat for negotiations.

Interesting to think after a surrender in my surrender what the economic effect of millions of healing factor folks would do. I could see the admantium swords having all kinds of industrial applications and exported for lots of money, even if they could not duplicate them.

The gear captured would be useful but if the Allies pulled back, the Japanese would have to make supplies and ammo and the industrial capacity was still being destroyed and raw materials blocked by the naval blockade. I think a negotiated settlement would work.

Perhaps a Wolverine swimming out to an Iowa class and trying to slice it up would be something to see.

[Sharpandpointies]

Hopefully there would be a negotiated settlement - they were looking at that ANYWAY.

Good point about the swords and their potential uses. Granted, there is a limited number, there will never be any more, and they can't be actually shaped into anything - they're sword-blades forever. I guess someone could find a use for them.

I'm hesitant to say they could slice holes in ships, mind, unless we're giving them the same magical 'cut anything despite Logan's limited strength' power that Wolverine's claws have. But that's neither here nor there, in the end; either this ends with a really, really ugly stalemate, or some kind of surrender gets worked out. As noted, I would rather see the latter.

[Captain Smith]

There was actually a negotiated settlement of sorts. The Emperor was allowed to stay but as a figurehead. Other nobility was de-nobled (so to speak). Only the succession line exists. The Wolverine magic ability to slice throw real dense, large things is well taken. If you watch Forged and Fire - on the history channel, sometimes the cut with really sharp blades run out of gas on a row of bamboo.

A tunnel borer with swords as the front end might be fun. I'm no engineer though. There would be millions of them to play around with.

[big_adventure]

Actually, the specifics of this event work out terribly for Japan.

Losing all of their guns and explosives mean that they no longer have ships and planes. There is literally no reason for the US forces to ever engage in a ground invasion. They would simply bomb Japanese industry to the stone age, and keep it there. There would be a lot of loss of life, but... war sucks and they started it. Assuming all of these sudden immortals in their midst don't make them believe themselves to be even more superior than they already did, they probably surrender relatively quickly as leadership realizes that their fight simply can't be won.

Surrender and can rejoin world society to some extent (though the immortal army is going to be seen as a constant menace), or...

Allied forces simply kill all of the crops from the air, waste fishing fleets and target food depots. Either THIS forces capitulation rapidly, or, if ego continues to keep them in a losing fight, well...

Eventually you would have a 6 million sort-of-immortal unkillable regular dudes with no food - all of the normal humans die very quickly. There are no women, because there were none in the IJA, so there is no reproduction. No scientists or engineers. If they can starve to death, they probably starve to death in some number of weeks? If not, they are going to go pretty feral. The Japanese archipelago turns into a worldwide no-go zone. It would be HORRIBLE, but that's going to be the only answer if Japan doesn't surrender.

[Twickster]

Actually, the specifics of this event work out terribly for Japan.

Losing all of their guns and explosives mean that they no longer have ships and planes.

The rest sounds pretty contrived and depends on this one step. *Why* would they lose ships and planes?

[big_adventure]

The rest sounds pretty contrived and depends on this one step. *Why* would they lose ships and planes?

What I mean is that they have no USEFUL ships and planes. The first line in the OP's scenario is that they lose all explosives, firearms and gunpowder. Therefore, they have no useful ships and planes. Ships with no weapons soon become artificial reefs. Planes with no weapons are shot out of the sky. Or simply ignored.

[Twickster]

What I mean is that they have no USEFUL ships and planes. The first line in the OP's scenario is that they lose all explosives, firearms and gunpowder. Therefore, they have no useful ships and planes. Ships with no weapons soon become artificial reefs. Planes with no weapons are shot out of the sky. Or simply ignored.

Or they could, I dunno, just take regular boats and island hop across to China and start making their way to Europe through the Alps, which they can easily cross now, or down through Korea, Taiwan and eventually Australia. The way you lay it out seems like their all idiot savages for some reason.

[big_adventure]

Or they could, I dunno, just take regular boats and island hop across to China and start making their way to Europe through the Alps, which they can easily cross now, or down through Korea, Taiwan and eventually Australia. The way you lay it out seems like their all idiot savages for some reason.

Their regular boats have effectively no chance at all of successfully landing anywhere en masse. Without combat vessels, without air cover, they are getting sunk. They already couldn't move en masse off the home islands by then. A few boats might make it, but most won't, and Wolverines can drown.

Japan wasn't surprising anyone after 1941, and here, this all takes place after their fleet has been more or less eliminated even without considering that they now lack effective combat armaments.

But sure, they can also do this with their soldiers (obviously they can't bring the non-combattants with them, they'd die very rapidly), which now opens the door to a trivial invasion of their homeland and near-instant capitulation.

[Captain Smith]

In my scenario, perhaps, I wasn't clear but I wanted the invasion troops to hit the beaches and then face the Wolverines (not the movie!!). About the ships and planes with no ammo or bombs. That adds an interesting nuance. If the planes exist, which I posit, the kamikaze strategy still exists. The Japanese had squirreled away thousand of planes to use in that role for the invasion. They knew where Olympic would land and concentrated resources there. Getting through the USN air defenses was tough but it was done. Could a Wolverine crash on a ship, survive the crash and then attack with his sword? That would be an interesting problem for a ship. I would think for a small ship like a destroyer, they are in serious troubles, for a big ship - cruiser, carrier, battleship - lots of folks, lots of space - interesting how that would play out.

I didn't think of kamikaze Wolverines, if the Japanese had time to play that out.

[Postmania]

There's no universe outside of wacky godlike powers on one side or another where this invasion goes well for anyone.

[Twickster]

Their regular boats have effectively no chance at all of successfully landing anywhere en masse. Without combat vessels, without air cover, they are getting sunk. They already couldn't move en masse off the home islands by then. A few boats might make it, but most won't, and Wolverines can drown.

Japan wasn't surprising anyone after 1941, and here, this all takes place after their fleet has been more or less eliminated even without considering that they now lack effective combat armaments.

But sure, they can also do this with their soldiers (obviously they can't bring the non-combattants with them, they'd die very rapidly), which now opens the door to a trivial invasion of their homeland and near-instant capitulation.

And why would they try to do anything en masse? Why would any of the "normal" rules apply, when there are effectively millions of unkillable hostiles now? Sure, Japan itself falls - so what? What happens afterwards? Millions of people who hate the Allies and *cannot die* are out there. The Japanese were fond of Government by assassination before this, the West isn't going to fare well in the decades afterwards, if ever.

[Twickster]

In my scenario, perhaps, I wasn't clear but I wanted the invasion troops to hit the beaches and then face the Wolverines (not the movie!!). About the ships and planes with no ammo or bombs. That adds an interesting nuance. If the planes exist, which I posit, the kamikaze strategy still exists. The Japanese had squirreled away thousand of planes to use in that role for the invasion. They knew where Olympic would land and concentrated resources there. Getting through the USN air defenses was tough but it was done. Could a Wolverine crash on a ship, survive the crash and then attack with his sword? That would be an interesting problem for a ship. I would think for a small ship like a destroyer, they are in serious troubles, for a big ship - cruiser, carrier, battleship - lots of folks, lots of space - interesting how that would play out.

I didn't think of kamikaze Wolverines, if the Japanese had time to play that out.

The only way a wolverine soldier is taken down when already inside a ship is he's literally weighed down by all the dead bodies he's killed.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

The invasion proceeds very badly. For everyone.

Softening up for the invasion with bombing and bombardment leads to massive casualties among civilians. Like, appalling. However, it really doesn't affect what the Japanese military forces have become, because....

1. They don't have any real infrastructure upon which they depend;
2. They don't have any equipment that's critical;
3. Except for a few of them who are hit like...DIRECTLY by bombardment and literally blown to pieces, they're fine afterwards.

After which the invasion begins, and then to their horror the Americans find themselves against thousands of nigh-unstoppable warriors who move too fast to follow. Bullets that actually hit them don't stop them, and barely slow them down (unless it's a massive fusillade directed at one person, and that leaves a whole lot more Wolverine Soldiers not being fired upon). Then they get up after they're 'killed' and stab their killers in the back.

They also very quickly arm themselves with the gear from the invasion force that makes it onto the Japanese islands, and things get even worse.

Aside: The adamantium swords add little to the Wolverine Soldiers other than basically giving them an unbreakable weapon..

Anyway, the invasion fails with truly massive loss of life on both sides (except for the Wolverine Soldiers, who come out of it with minimal losses). The Americans go back to bombing Japan. The Japanese civilians suffer and die. The Wolverine Soldiers basically become an undefeatable guerilla force who cannot affect the world in a meaningful way, because they can't really leave Japan.

Tie game, everyone loses; this is really a horrific scenario.

Alternately, without the atomic bomb being dropped, Japan manages to work out a negotiated peace before the invasion begins, as according to many it was already preparing and/or attempting to do. <-- I like this version a whole lot better, even if it means we have thousands of people with ridiculous healing factors running around. Certainly the human race would look very different by 2022!

So... from what I recall, Japan was sort of not really going to surrender before the bombs dropped. What ultimately happened was the powers that be behind the Emperor were holding out for a deal with Russia... that Stalin was very much trying to avoid even entertaining becuase he wanted to get what Russia had lost to Japan at the turn of the century, back.

But beuracrats gonna beuracrat.

I think too, even after the bombs dropped, they weren't entirely sold on surrendering. It was sort of a miracle they did.