Discovery Wants To Revitalize Superman

[DochaDocha]

I feel like if Aquaman can become a $1 billion movie on its first try, anything is possible for more popular heroes.

That said, because of COVID, I don't think The Batman will hit $1 billion. It's already out on digital and it's still below $800 M.

[Robotman]

So the new Thor movie trailer came out. Do you think Superman would benefit with the stylish take Ragnarok and Love and Thunder took?

Possibly. Someone like Taika Waititi taking over the Superman franchise would be interesting. I definitely want a fun Superman movie that doesn't feel the need to deconstruct the character. Enough with the Jesus analogies and "how would the real world react to Superman" and "what does it mean to be Superman". Also give Death of Superman a rest!

The JJ Abrams/Coates pitch is something that would be produced by people who really don't believe Superman as a character can succeed without a gimmicky twist. So I'm really hoping that project doesn't happen.

Overall it seems like fans and moviegoers like Henry Cavill as Supes. They should give him another shot. Right now WB has the very unlikeable Ezra Miller and Amber Heard headlining their upcoming DC movies. Not a great look. it would probably be a good idea to stick with an actor that people generally like.

[manwhohaseverything]

Possibly. Someone like Taika Waititi taking over the Superman franchise would be interesting. I definitely want a fun Superman movie that doesn't feel the need to deconstruct the character. Enough with the Jesus analogies and "how would the real world react to Superman" and "what does it mean to be Superman". Also give Death of Superman a rest!

@bold I think they are more intrinsic to superman than people give them credit for..

[JAK]

@bold I think they are more intrinsic to superman than people give them credit for..

The first three are only intrinsic to what WB studios always thinks of for Superman, not Superman as he existed for decades in the comics, including the Post-Crisis and Triangle Era Superman (who has stories literally pushing back against the first idea, and never really did the other two in the way we think of them now - that was all 2000's on up)

The fourth (Death and Return) is just a popular story that keeps getting rehashed because DC/WB has no brain of it's own.

[manwhohaseverything]

The first three are only intrinsic to what WB studios always thinks of for Superman, not Superman as he existed for decades in the comics, including the Post-Crisis and Triangle Era Superman (who has stories literally pushing back against the first idea, and never really did the other two in the way we think of them now - that was all 2000's on up)

The fourth (Death and Return) is just a popular story that keeps getting rehashed because DC/WB has no brain of it's own.

waid goes for it.pkj stuff has it.morrison goes for it.maggin stuff has it in abundance.the difference is the narrative is actually complex with these guys.But,with studio movies it ain't...Triangle era has some of the gladiator stuff of the old but it generally is a mix of donner's father figure and that.Generally,all these writer go for it in blunt ways and but is in a non-paternalistic way.Morrison's clark is pretty chill.Superman franchise is pretty blunt about clark being jesus,no matter who is writing except for the really old guards.



Clark says he doesn't have answers..Yet,he is positioned in a father figure like way to have it in the form of "Help people".I am not against religious symbolism and begnin morals.But,it does make the guy jesus(or mythical savior figure).In a world of rationalism,individuality,..etc this modus operandi and philosophy doesn't work.People want their heroes to not be some guru or mythical savior.They want heroes who say "I can't tell you what you are supposed to do.I don't have the answers..I am just a guy making my own path"


We live in a world where lex is badass and pretty heroic..(atleast in this instance)
the society has grown existentialist.Even a god asks a man "what his purpose is" and gets an answer "There is no way to tell".(I am not a fan of "we make our path in life.Go create yours." nonesense.It feels like guiding post.I am however a fan of lex making fun of amazo aftwards for asking such an irrelavant and childish question..That's what amazo is here.A child asking his father his purpose..But,lex declares he ain't amazo's father )

People can be their own guiding light.

People praying for miracles with only "Hope" they had and asking others for "what they should do".Should have the protagonist walk away not answering the question because he simply doesn't have it.The protagonist walks away believing in the people.That they can "figure it out on their own because they have their own pair of two strong legs".But,that's just me.

Their interviews have it even "Superman loves humanity...Superman loves life"..what does that even mean..Just think,I am a guy working at a newspaper company that doesn't pay you well for the **** you do.would i do it?Do normal people do that? If i proclaimed "i loved humanity" in the middle of the road or at a subway,(goofy idea..I might just do it..for the fun of it)my friends would snigger..Rightfully so and say "sure thing,jesus".I prefer superman to be less holier and less like a father..More a guy down the street."A man of action,a common man in hot pursuit of truth and justice...Fullfilling his dreams and taking the world by storm".

[Minerboh]

Finally, someone actually listened.

[Minerboh]

So the new Thor movie trailer came out. Do you think Superman would benefit with the stylish take Ragnarok and Love and Thunder took?

Somewhere in the middle for me.
All though it would be really nice to see a lighthearted approch to Superman (kind like the two first Christopher Reeve movies), I also do not like to see Superman reduced into an Inspector Gadget bookleg.

[Zagre]

Possibly. Someone like Taika Waititi taking over the Superman franchise would be interesting. I definitely want a fun Superman movie that doesn't feel the need to deconstruct the character. Enough with the Jesus analogies and "how would the real world react to Superman" and "what does it mean to be Superman". Also give Death of Superman a rest!

The JJ Abrams/Coates pitch is something that would be produced by people who really don't believe Superman as a character can succeed without a gimmicky twist. So I'm really hoping that project doesn't happen.

Overall it seems like fans and moviegoers like Henry Cavill as Supes. They should give him another shot. Right now WB has the very unlikeable Ezra Miller and Amber Heard headlining their upcoming DC movies. Not a great look. it would probably be a good idea to stick with an actor that people generally like.

Ragnarok is by far the most desconstructive Thor film (or film that has MCU Thor in it), though.

[The World]

Quite honestly, they either need to go big or go home. The mentality surrounding Superman the last 30-40 years has been about how much you can trim off so that the character can be more relateable or more grounded. It's high time to leave that sort of the thinking in the past where it belongs. First order of business needs to be making sure the general public gets Superman as he's suppose to be with all the fixings. Super child hoods, The Legion, regular time travel shenanigans, Luthor with his extended family, everything and anyone who says that stuff is too silly or doesn't work needs to be shown the door. Frankly at this point other franchises have shown that lots of Superman's old silver age and golden age idea's work just fine, and if anything time has shown the 1980's yuppie from Mayberry angle is the truly dated concept here.

[Soubhagya]

The Superman cinematic brand is so damaged now, there is no realistic way a Superman movie is going to be a billion dollar smash hit out of the gate. That is unless you have an out of the Blue Richard Donner/Chris Reeve level of film that immediately catches the pop culture wave and becomes a phenomenon...and that would require a miracle. The conditions around Superman the movie was indeed a miracle in 1978. Right place and time combined with the ideal director and writer Team, ambitious producers and a lead who was born to play the role, all released during the birth of the blockbuster era in the wake of Star Wars. Conditions that are not likely to happen again.


I think the most realistic bar is a Batman Begins sized hit where word of mouth will fuel good legs and a decent box office and provide a base to build on. People forget that Batman Begins made less money than Superman Returns but word of mouth was extremely good for Begins and it did huge sales on home media setting the stage for the huge success of The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises. Superman needs to build similar momentum. He needs just a solid film or two creatively to gain back trust of the movie going public. Its only then that Warners may have a Superman film franchise that can reach those heights.

MOS could have been that had Warners just played their cards right and been more patient...but we know what happened there. Warners expected the movie to make 1 billion straight away and when it didn't they scrambled to change plans again and Superman gets treated like old news once again.

I agree absolutely with you here.

It sounds like they want to see more Superman. Not some cameos or fighting some other heroes. But proper Superman content. You can't realize Superman's potential by making the character appear in supporting roles all the time. All they need is one or two good Superman movies. And content like games.

[JAK]

waid goes for it.pkj stuff has it.morrison goes for it.maggin stuff has it in abundance.the difference is the narrative is actually complex with these guys.But,with studio movies it ain't...Triangle era has some of the gladiator stuff of the old but it generally is a mix of donner's father figure and that.Generally,all these writer go for it in blunt ways and but is in a non-paternalistic way.Morrison's clark is pretty chill.Superman franchise is pretty blunt about clark being jesus,no matter who is writing except for the really old guards.

There are instances of it, certainly, but I'm saying it's not central to the character. It's not a necessary component.

Clark says he doesn't have answers..Yet,he is positioned in a father figure like way to have it in the form of "Help people".I am not against religious symbolism and begnin morals.But,it does make the guy jesus(or mythical savior figure).In a world of rationalism,individuality,..etc this modus operandi and philosophy doesn't work.People want their heroes to not be some guru or mythical savior.They want heroes who say "I can't tell you what you are supposed to do.I don't have the answers..I am just a guy making my own path"

I don't want Superman to be Ryu from Street Fighter (and I like Ryu, but he's not Clark). Superman can talk to someone if he thinks it'll help them and be a comfort to them. As I said, that doesn't make him Jesus. Stoicism shouldn't be Clark's bag. And to equate anything other than "figure it out yourself" as telling people what to do and being Jesus is just not factual. There's a lot more nuance than that.

And in that page you posted here, Clark is essentially saying "I can't tell you what you are supposed to do.I don't have the answers..I am just a guy making my own path". He's just not using those exact words. He's saying what *he* does, but doesn't say it's what they should do. You can imply that, and others have, but I've always read that as just sharing his perspective.

We live in a world where lex is badass and pretty heroic..(atleast in this instance)
the society has grown existentialist.Even a god asks a man "what his purpose is" and gets an answer "There is no way to tell".(I am not a fan of "we make our path in life.Go create yours." nonesense.It feels like guiding post.I am however a fan of lex making fun of amazo aftwards for asking such an irrelavant and childish question..That's what amazo is here.A child asking his father his purpose..But,lex declares he ain't amazo's father)

People can be their own guiding light.

People praying for miracles with only "Hope" they had and asking others for "what they should do".Should have the protagonist walk away not answering the question because he simply doesn't have it.The protagonist walks away believing in the people.That they can "figure it out on their own because they have their own pair of two strong legs".But,that's just me.

I hate the idea of "the S means hope" as much as just about anyone, so I get that. If it "means" hope to people, it should be because Clark has done enough good that people think of it that way. But there's a difference between people being hopeful when they see him (or hoping he shows up when they're in trouble) and them "praying for miracles." The Jesus allegory only half-way fits because others have also tried to do so in popular media because they don't understand the character. But it doesn't actually fit. It's why the movies have had such a hard time, they keep leaning into something that is barely half there and wondering why people don't respond to it. It worked once/twice for Donner (imo because other elements were solid enough that it could be overlooked or worked within the specific story context) and then creators since have generally learned the wrong lessons from it from surface-level readings. (as another example of this being a problem at WB, look at how DC has been running with the surface level reading of "TDK = people like Batman beating up Superman" for decades when that take shows they maybe read it once at 13 while watching TV and never bothered to pick it up again or understand context).

Their interviews have it even "Superman loves humanity...Superman loves life"..what does that even mean..Just think,I am a guy working at a newspaper company that doesn't pay you well for the **** you do.would i do it?Do normal people do that? If i proclaimed "i loved humanity" in the middle of the road or at a subway,(goofy idea..I might just do it..for the fun of it)my friends would snigger..Rightfully so and say "sure thing,jesus".I prefer superman to be less holier and less like a father..More a guy down the street."A man of action,a common man in hot pursuit of truth and justice...Fullfilling his dreams and taking the world by storm".

I get that, and my reboot idea is very much in line with a lot of the "man of action" take, but Superman very rarely just goes into the middle of the street and yells this at people, either. And the reason writers say things like that in interviews is because many people who have power, influence, etc don't really love either of those things - even if they say they do. Loving humanity and life, at least in practice, simply means helping who you can when and how you can. It doesn't need to be any more grandiose than that, and the fact that it's been made that way in most non-comics Superman media is grating to me, too.

[superduperman]

If Discovery is on the fence about making another Superman movie, now would be a good time to point out that Ezra Miller got arrested...again.

[Vakanai]

True the legion might work but for a third movie or something

...why would you save the team of teens Superman's friends with when he's a teen for movie 3? Works much better as a first movie.

[DochaDocha]

If Discovery is on the fence about making another Superman movie, now would be a good time to point out that Ezra Miller got arrested...again.

#FireEzraMiller

[superduperman]

#FireEzraMiller

I'm hoping that Discovery has a lot less patience than the current management does.